Rifle Scopes Red Dot Needed

[Dta1]

Putting together another ar— and trying to decide which red dot is going on this one.

Although I thoroughly expect this to only get used at the range, I would like to think I have a solid system in place in case SHTF.

Family and I live in the city, so I’m assuming set up should target 0 to 100+ yrds.

Rifle will be 14.5” and chambered in .223 wylde.

I have an Aimpoint Comp M2 and an Eotech XPS2 on other carbines and like them both for different reasons, but I’m hoping to hear from those who have had some real world experience working with their red dots.

ACOGs, Eotech, Aimpoint, Elcan? What would you put on your gun in my situation and why?

appreciate any advice provided.

 

[aslrookie]

EoTech or aimpoint. The elcan is heavy, eye relief is similar to an ACOG where you gotta be right up on it for a clear sight picture.

You live in the city, so fight could happen around vehicles...you don’t wanna be hunched behind a car wheel or engine block trying to see through your optic and hit a concealed/moving target.

 

[GetReal]

Love the Holosun circle dot reticle. This one (HE509T) on my pistol, could be used with a riser.

Also has solar backup power. Or could get the HS503C

I've tried alot of them. Eotechs, Aimpoints, most of the RMR - type red dots. For me, there is nothing faster than the circle- dot Holosun. Less weight, and smaller footprint.

 

[hk dave]

Op you have an EOTech and aimpoint. You’re fine.
Holosun would be a step down.

The only step up at this point would be training.

 

[SepticDeath]

Yep, Aimpoint or Eotech. Can't go wrong there.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Holosun is Chinese. That should be a hard pass for them.

While I realize it's getting hard to get away from Chinese products, we as Americans should steer clear of those products whenever possible.

 

[nn8734]

Lots of similar discussion here, OP.

Night Vision - SHTF rifle

Hi everyone I’m asking for suggestions I’m building a 12.5 inch ar15 pistol for SHTF I’m stuck on what optic to run I plan on using night vision and IR laser setup but can’t make my mind up on running a eotech red dot with Magnifier or going with a LVPO with a offset RMR or a holosun 508T v2 any...

www.snipershide.com

 

[koshkin]

AImpoint and EOTech are the best recognized options, certainly, but there are other alternatives. I just spent a bunch of time looking at various red dot sights and magnifiers for the upcoming G&A Red Dot magazine, so this is all sorta fresh in my mind.

If you like holographics and do not use NVG, I would take Vortex AMG UH-1 over the EOTech. It costs a little less, weighs the same and has a longer lasting battery.

With red dots, if you want something small, consider Shield SIS. It is made in UK and competes directly against the Aimpoint Micro with some success.

If size is not that big of a deal, my home defense rifle is about to be switched over to Meprolight MOR. It is fairly beefy, very much proven in combat in Israel where it is made, and has redundant energy sources for the dot, which I like. An integrated laser is not a bad thing either. I am not sure how much I need the laser, but it is effectively and extra redundant sighting system already built in.

If you want something high tech, Meprolight Foresight is kinda growing on me with its augmented low distortion window.

Not sure how important it is for you to stay out of China, but Sig builds a few in Japan and a few in the US. I am sure they use some Chinese components, but that is probably true for most red dot sights out there. Here is a rundown of where different Sig red dot sights are assembled:

ROMEOZero- USA
ROMEO1Pro- Philippines
ROMEO1- Philippines
ROMEO3- Japan
ROMEO3MAX- Japan
ROMEO3XL- Japan
ROMEO4- USA
ROMEO5- China
ROMEO7- China
ROMEOMsr- China
ROMEO8- USA

I have not tested Sig reflex sights too much recently, so that is on my list to get to later in the year.

If you have mild astigmatism, Leica Tempus and Crimson Trace CTS-1400 probably have the best collimation quality I have seen to date in compact RDS.

Basically, the point I am making is that as good as Aimpoint and EOTech are, if you want to try something else, there are plenty of options. UH-1 is probably my favourite overall non-magnified sight partly because I like holographics and partly because of how well it works with magnifiers. However, Mepro MOR and Leica Tempus are really growing on me.

ILya

 

[7WSMShooter]

Picked up a Mepro MOR for the 300BO and will be getting another.
Tritium, battery, and Fiber optic powered aiming dot. Visable and IR
lazer aiming, that adjust to point of impact with the sight.
sighted mine in yesterday. All in one. Sighting in all in at the Same time
with One adjustment was pretty impressive.

 

[GetReal]

Op you have an EOTech and aimpoint. You’re fine.
Holosun would be a step down.

The only step up at this point would be training.

I'm curious why you think the Holosun would be a step down. Is it Chinese manufacturer or possible functionality or reliability issue?

I would have recommended the EOtech but I believe it's circle is too large for legitimate CQB usage.

While I own 3 EO techs they all have a massive circle that goes well outside typical target area in CQB use. For me, and perhaps me only, the Holosun circle is perfectly sized and very fast ... faster than the EOtech in producing good hits. Maybe that's just personal preference but I would not consider it a step down from the eo Tech or Aim point

The Holosun can be converted between a smaller circle for CQB or just a dot for precision.

And the solar power backup has undeniable value.

Just my opinion. Others are welcome.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Aimpoint or Eotech. Been down the road with everything including the cheap Chinese garbage. Just offloaded 4 MRO's to go back to Aimpoint Pros and M2's.

They really are the clearest, brightest and most robust RDS out there. Also a steal on the used market.

If you want something different I would try a LPV, but be warned, the only ones worth owning start at $1k and go up to $3K. Rest are junk.

 

[LiveToDrive]

I kinda feel like a red dot reticle is fine no mater what shapes go with it. As long as you shoot it enough to get used to it, it will matter little. If you trained enough with either reticle, I highly doubt your split times would show a difference... I've leaned toward Aimpoints over eotechs over the years for no other reason than "I just like them".

 

[hafejd30]

I run a Sig Romeo 5 with Magpul flip ups that cowitness thru it. Excellent system on my 556 sbr, 300 BO SBR and CZ scorpion

 

[CrabsandFootball]

There is exactly one MRD that can hold up to abuse and that's the RMR. Type 2 specifically for pistols.

The shame is the delta point and others actually have a better sight picture but they just aren't durable enough for hard use.

RMRs make terrible primary optics on long guns, with almost zero give in head position. Terrible for heads up and compromised shooting positons.

The best RSD out there for the money is the Aimpoint Pro new. Solid mount, great glass, nice big forgiving tube, long battery life and crisp dot, even for those of us with astigmatism.

 

[koshkin]

https://us.leica-camera.com/Sport-Optics/Hunting/Leica-Riflescopes/Leica-Tempus-ASPH/Models

View attachment 7316492

I'd like to see more reviews on the Leica Tempus. You would think that they would be touting the aspherical lens and the benefits it offers people with astigmatism. I'm wondering how durable the red dot sight is.

I have astigmatism which results in the dot in my Aimpoints having more of a crescent shape. This isn't an issue until you start shooting smaller targets out beyond 200 yards.

I wonder if Aimpoint has ever tried to incorporate an aspherical lens in their products. Or even it is possible. It seems that would solve one of the biggest problems with red dots.

I have one that I am playing with and I like it a fair bit. I have mild astigmatism and this one has the best defined dot of all the small red dots I have seen. It is not rated for handguns, but it works really nicely on on lightweight carbines and with magnifiers.

Leica is not doing a whole lot to market it, it seems, but it is a very nice red dot sight.

So far, I have not had any issues durability wise and I know they have been out in Europe for a bit used for driven game and stuff like that. I am not aware of any durability issues there.

ILya

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Where is the Leica dot made and how much are they going for?

Have you run them on a pistol for high round counts? How do they hold up when dropped? Almost every MRD shatters when dropped from 6 ft on a pistol or long gun.

 

[koshkin]

Where is the Leica dot made and how much are they going for?

Have you run them on a pistol for high round counts? How do they hold up when dropped? Almost every MRD shatters when dropped from 6 ft on a pistol or long gun.

It is not rated for handguns. Their target market is carbines and such.

ILya

 

[Vicdiesel]

Carbsand,
Why no love for the MROs? I have a couple of MROs and an Aimpoint PRO and like both of them relatively equally.
I am actually in the same position as the OP and am also looking for an RDS for a stribog that should be here in the next week or so....

Looking forward to others recommendations on this thread....

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Dot is not crisp at all, Blue Tint, fisheye effect, smaller eyebox, battery life is not great and the battery attachment method is prone to damaging the optic.

The only real benefit is weight savings, but I have come to realize the weight difference is negligible in a full loaded rifle and I prefer the sight picture and shooting while moving much better with the PROs.

 

[msstate56]

Dot is not crisp at all, Blue Tint, fisheye effect, smaller eyebox, battery life is not great and the battery attachment method is prone to damaging the optic.

The only real benefit is weight savings, but I have come to realize the weight difference is negligible in a full loaded rifle and I prefer the sight picture and shooting while moving much better with the PROs.

See this is where optics are all opinion based. What is not clear or crisp to one person, works fine for other people. To my eye the MRO dots look better than the Aimpoint dots. I won’t argue the “slight fish eye” of the MRO. If you look for it it’s there, but while actually shooting I haven’t been distracted by it. I used to run Comp M2, M3, M4 and Pro, but I only use the micros H1/T1. I like the form factor of the smaller sight that does the exact same thing as a sight twice as big. I haven’t had any problem getting behind the micros, despite them being smaller. Now come back and tell me how I’m doing it all wrong and don’t know what I’m doing.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

I’m pretty sure no one was talking to you or telling you anthing. The guy asked me why I went back after owning more than a dozen of each. And I told him exactly why.

 

[msstate56]

As did I. I gave my opinion same as you. I don’t know what you deal is, or where that chip on your shoulder came from, but you got your 100 posts in less than a week. You can calm down and use the PX now.

 

[TheGerman]

Fuck anything Chinese.

Just buy an Aimpoint. It'll last forever.

 

[MarinePMI]

Fuck anything Chinese.

Just buy an Aimpoint. It'll last forever.

Pretty much this ^^^^^^

 

[hk dave]

I'm curious why you think the Holosun would be a step down. Is it Chinese manufacturer or possible functionality or reliability issue?

I would have recommended the EOtech but I believe it's circle is too large for legitimate CQB usage.

While I own 3 EO techs they all have a massive circle that goes well outside typical target area in CQB use. For me, and perhaps me only, the Holosun circle is perfectly sized and very fast ... faster than the EOtech in producing good hits. Maybe that's just personal preference but I would not consider it a step down from the eo Tech or Aim point

The Holosun can be converted between a smaller circle for CQB or just a dot for precision.

And the solar power backup has undeniable value.

Just my opinion. Others are welcome.

"Is it Chinese manufacturer or possible functionality or reliability issue?" <---you said it

I try hard not to give money to commies. I'd put my money on Aimpoint over a Holosun in terms of ruggedness and reliability any day of the week.

 

[msstate56]

To put it another way- wouldn’t you rather own the original that sets the standard, or a cheap blatant rip off copy?
That said I do own a Holosun micro copy. It’s on a .22 fun gun. I’d never use anything but a “name brand” on a gun that matters. Plus at this point in the world- I doubt I’ll ever buy any optic made in China just out of principle.

OP- if you just want something different: you could try the new Trijicon MRO HD, it has a red dot and a “segmented circle.” So “EOtechish” reticle in a red dot platform. Just a thought.

 

[Redfisher60]

Trijicon MRO

 

[GetReal]

"Is it Chinese manufacturer or possible functionality or reliability issue?" <---you said it

I try hard not to give money to commies. I'd put my money on Aimpoint over a Holosun in terms of ruggedness and reliability any day of the week.

That's fair. To be clear....have you heard of any and functionality or relaibility issues?

 

[dtuns]

I have a aimpoint T1 and like. I'm thinking about an MRO for next purchase I like the wider view than my T1 at least in the store. I haven't used a rifle with one yet.

 

[RHINOWSO]

I have a aimpoint T1 and like. I'm thinking about an MRO for next purchase I like the wider view than my T1 at least in the store. I haven't used a rifle with one yet.

Want a wider FOV?

Open both eyes.

 

[hk dave]

That's fair. To be clear....have you heard of any and functionality or relaibility issues?

Yes, many. Just type in Holosun Fail into google and it gets ugly.

 

[dtuns]

Want a wider FOV?

Open both eyes.

I do shoot with both eyes open.

 

[Matches Malone]

I'm curious why you think the Holosun would be a step down. Is it Chinese manufacturer or possible functionality or reliability issue?

I would have recommended the EOtech but I believe it's circle is too large for legitimate CQB usage.

While I own 3 EO techs they all have a massive circle that goes well outside typical target area in CQB use. For me, and perhaps me only, the Holosun circle is perfectly sized and very fast ... faster than the EOtech in producing good hits. Maybe that's just personal preference but I would not consider it a step down from the eo Tech or Aim point

The Holosun can be converted between a smaller circle for CQB or just a dot for precision.

And the solar power backup has undeniable value.

Just my opinion. Others are welcome.

The circle on the eotech is literally as cqb as cqb gets. The bottom of the circle there is a small cross, that is made for shots 7 yards and in to overcome height over bore. All you need to know is your zero offsets, like with any red dot/holo. Different zeros are explained in the little instruction book that comes with your eotech will tell you how to do different zero offsets. Though I admit, I use 36 yard bzo, there’s no mention of that in the instruction, but that’s just me. At least from the year models I have.

 

[GetReal]

The circle on the eotech is literally as cqb as cqb gets. The bottom of the circle there is a small cross, that is made for shots 7 yards and in to overcome height over bore. All you need to know is your zero offsets, like with any red dot/holo. Different zeros are explained in the little instruction book that comes with your eotech will tell you how to do different zero offsets. Though I admit, I use 36 yard bzo, there’s no mention of that in the instruction, but that’s just me. At least from the year models I have.

Understood. I just like the Holosun reticle better for near to mid ranges. Personal preference. It works better for me.

 

[308pirate]

If you want something different I would try a LPV, but be warned, the only ones worth owning start at $1k and go up to $3K. Rest are junk.

Most of the rest are junk

Several sub $1K LPVOs that aren't junk
1. Steiner P4Xi 1-4X
2. Trijicon Accupoint 1-4X
3. Vortex Viper PST II 1-6X

 

[308pirate]

I do shoot with both eyes open.

The concept of FOV doesn't apply to reflex sights if one learns how to use the eyes with one. Trying to see through the optic isn't how.

You look past the optic with it in your line of sight. It's difficult to put into words but once you learn that it changes the game.

 

[MarinePMI]

The concept of FOV doesn't apply to reflex sights if one learns how to use the eyes with one. Trying to see through the optic isn't how.

You look past the optic with it in your line of sight. It's difficult to put into words but once you learn that it changes the game.

This. It's the same as the original aimpoint (which you could not see through, it was just a closed tube with a dot in it). You look at the target with your non-shooting eye, and your brain superimposes the dot from your dominant eye over the target you non-shooting eye sees. Your FOV in the tube is irrelevant.

 

[RHINOWSO]

I do shoot with both eyes open.

Well you are doing it wrong if you need FOV with a reflex RDS.

Concentrate on the target and looking around with you eye behind the sight and you will see the red dot and everything else. Yes the sight will be visible but not appreciably so.

 

[308pirate]

It's amazing how many people think they know how to use a reflex sight but actually don't

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Yep. As a training tool I have people keep the front cap on their aimpoint to get used to it.

The grandfather to the modern red dot sight was the OEG sight back in Vietnam and then the aimpoint came along shortly after in 1975 with their first sight.

50 years later the principle is the same, Both eyes open.

 

[308pirate]

50 years later the principle is the same, Both eyes open.

I think most know that by now. The problem comes when the untrained try to focus exclusively through the sight even with both eyes open.

 

[Dta1]

Thanks for all the input guys, good to hear there are some great alternatives on the market— collectively it sounds like Aimpoint is still my best option. As much as I love trying new equipment, this is one place where I will revert to tried and true until more real world testing and results are available for some of the newer options.
So, I’ll be looking for a PRO, used Comp m4s, or used Comp m5s. If any of you all have an opinion between those, I’m all ears.

 

[308pirate]

Thanks for all the input guys, good to hear there are some great alternatives on the market— collectively it sounds like Aimpoint is still my best option. As much as I love trying new equipment, this is one place where I will revert to tried and true until more real world testing and results are available for some of the newer options.
So, I’ll be looking for a PRO, used Comp m4s, or used Comp m5s. If any of you all have an opinion between those, I’m all ears.

I would not ignore the Trijicon MRO. There's nothing wrong with them despite isolated opinions of people who don't like them

 

[308pirate]

Dot is not crisp at all - That's a function of your astigmatism

Blue Tint - Same as the Aimpoint PRO that I used to have

fisheye effect - You have to be looking through the optic like a straw to notice it, and even there it's only at the very edges

smaller eyebox - no such thing in non-magnified optics

battery life is not great - How long did yours last? Trijicon says 50K hours. Even if it's half that, it's still more than enough

the battery attachment method is prone to damaging the optic - only if you're a klutz

 

[Dta1]

I would not ignore the Trijicon MRO. There's nothing wrong with them despite isolated opinions of people who don't like them

The MRO has been on my short list as well— I’ll look into them further. None of the stores in my area carry them, so I haven’t had the chance to look through one.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Not Even Close.

Why is the Dot Crisper on the Aimpoint than the MRO if I have an asitgmitism? Either way it is. After owning a bunch of each, its not debatable and everyone who looks through both says the same thing.

Aimpoint has NO blue tint. This is specific to Trijicon MRO and RMR's. Aimpoint glass is clear.

Fisheye is very distracting and distorts the sight picture, more so on the edges. Its usable but its a function of poor design. All red dots have some slight degree of magnification, trijicon just sucks at managing it.

Smaller eyebox due to smaller tube. Shrink the Tube and you shrink the range of movement. When shooting heads up and on the move, you don't need a solid cheekweld and can still make shots without perfect head positioning. Same issue with the T1/T2.

MRO batteries last maybe three months on Setting 5. Setting 6 is max and Setting 4 is barley usable in the daylight. Settings 3 and under and NV and complete darkness. Aimpoint batteries on setting one under max (Which is is nuclear dot in comparison) last years.

Numerious people have reported over the years of damaging the contacts to the point the unit is inoperable. The fact is, its piss poor engineering. There was zero reason for this shitty design that lends itself to damage easily. The other issue is the battery cap is on the brightness turret. A turret within a turret, also to aimpoint which has a separate, water sealed battery housing. Aimpoints also hold and extra battery in the housing plug.

You speak as someone with zero experience with any of these products. Put them side by side and its night and day.

 

[msstate56]

The MRO has been on my short list as well— I’ll look into them further. None of the stores in my area carry them, so I haven’t had the chance to look through one.

I’ve been running one (MRO) on my duty rifle for a couple years now. I like it, it’s not perfect, and I still use Aimpoints as well, but it’s a nice optic. The “fish eye” is a non issue when you are actually shooting the gun as opposed to just looking through the sight. All red dots have some parallax, some more than others. I leave my front sight flipped up and use that as a reference point to eliminate parallax, especially while zeroing. I “float the dot” above the sight post (I use a lower 1/3rd cowitness). This keeps your POA/POI consistent.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

FYI I have run the MRO almost exclusively over the last 4 years in numeroruos training courses and on my duty guns/Personal weps.

I wanted to love them, but in the end, they fall short for the above reasons. Serviceable, but inferior.

 

[Dta1]

I’ve been running one (MRO) on my duty rifle for a couple years now. I like it, it’s not perfect, and I still use Aimpoints as well, but it’s a nice optic. The “fish eye” is a non issue when you are actually shooting the gun as opposed to just looking through the sight. All red dots have some parallax, some more than others. I leave my front sight flipped up and use that as a reference point to eliminate parallax, especially while zeroing. I “float the dot” above the sight post (I use a lower 1/3rd cowitness). This keeps your POA/POI consistent.

would you consider Aimpoints to be closer to perfect?

 

[msstate56]

It’s all personal preference really. I like both, but if I could only have one- it would probably be an Aimpoint Micro. I’m looking at trying out a Comp M5, and an MRO HD in pursuit of “more perfect.” But it’s incremental gains, nothing earth shattering. A T2 isn’t way better than a T1, just a little bit better. But the new segmented circle and dot in the HD may be a bigger improvement over the MRO.