Reloading equipment questions.

[XP1K]

Looking for some insight on a couple things.

Number one, I'm looking at a new press. Currently loading on a rock chucker and it's giving me grief with seating depth consistency. If I'm not careful with pressure on the handle I Gan get two to three thou more than I want. Short of just bearing down on it every time I seat a bullet I don't know what else I can do with it other than replace it.
So what press is everybody's favorite for accuracy and consistency in the loading process ? Right now I'm considering the Lyman turret press, the redding t7 or an rcbs summit.

Second question is in regard to neck tension and I'm think about going to an expander mandrel setup to load for my 300 winmag. Having issues with es and I've swapped primers three times and found decent es/sd with all of them but can't stay consistently good. Leads me to believe it's a neck tension issue. Loading new federal brass and you can feel the inconsistency in the bullet seating. I've got 11 left out of this batch then I'm going to anneal them and that should help. Would going to the expander mandrel help me all that much with consistency or is the standard die set sufficient ? Currently using rcbs match master dies. Went to them from hornady for the windowed bullet seater and bushing sizer die.

 

[Greenfish]

Are you uniforming your necks first or just loading the brass straight out of the box?

 

[oso1]

I doubt the rock chucker is the problem, if you go with one of the turret presses you will have same issue with seating depth, maybe more. Could be a lot of things but info is vague.

 

[nn8734]

Looking for some insight on a couple things.

Number one, I'm looking at a new press. Currently loading on a rock chucker and it's giving me grief with seating depth consistency. If I'm not careful with pressure on the handle I Gan get two to three thou more than I want. Short of just bearing down on it every time I seat a bullet I don't know what else I can do with it other than replace it.
So what press is everybody's favorite for accuracy and consistency in the loading process ? Right now I'm considering the Lyman turret press, the redding t7 or an rcbs summit.

Second question is in regard to neck tension and I'm think about going to an expander mandrel setup to load for my 300 winmag. Having issues with es and I've swapped primers three times and found decent es/sd with all of them but can't stay consistently good. Leads me to believe it's a neck tension issue. Loading new federal brass and you can feel the inconsistency in the bullet seating. I've got 11 left out of this batch then I'm going to anneal them and that should help. Would going to the expander mandrel help me all that much with consistency or is the standard die set sufficient ? Currently using rcbs match master dies. Went to them from hornady for the windowed bullet seater and bushing sizer die.

What do your targets look like?

Get a new press if you want but the Rock Chucker isnt your problem. And .002-.003 seating depth variation wont make any difference anyway unless you’re already jamming w/vlds.

 

[Maurygold]

You absolutely do not need a new press. cheap federal brass is the biggest problem so far in what you've described. buy lapua and keep on. Also ES is possibly from the powder charge not just primers.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I love my Lyman turret press but the rock chucker has probably made more precision ammo than all of them combined- It ain't the problem.

It sounds like you honestly need to know more about what you are doing. I don't mean to sound ugly and I hope that you take thus well and as intended, which is to he helpful to you. Your post just doesn't make sense and makes it kind of obvious that you aren't quite where you need to be yet, which I'm no expert myself. I think you need to look at your set up process one step at a time. Also, 2 or 3 thou in seating depth over a decent amount of rounds could be just the bullets or your measuring technique, or the brass, ect...

Also, federal brass gave me fits and I quit using it. Buying lapua or one of the other good brass is just much better all around.

 

[Baron23]

And .002-.003 seating depth variation wont make any difference anyway unless you’re already jamming w/vlds.

 

[XP1K]

Are you uniforming your necks first or just loading the brass straight out of the box?

Full length resized and trimmed before the first firing.

 

[XP1K]

I doubt the rock chucker is the problem, if you go with one of the turret presses you will have same issue with seating depth, maybe more. Could be a lot of things but info is vague.

I dont think it's the issue it's just irritating.

What do your targets look like?

Get a new press if you want but the Rock Chucker isnt your problem. And .002-.003 seating depth variation wont make any difference anyway unless you’re already jamming w/vlds.

I've tuned groups .003" at a time so it's in the back of my mind when I get that odd flyer. Was it the seating depth that got me ? Probably just my ocd flaring up.

 

[camocorvette]

I feel like of you have your die set up a 1/4 turn past bottomed out. It will cam over the same every single time. Bottom out the handle and do everything the same everytime.
Accuracy is consistency

 

[nn8734]

I dont think it's the issue it's just irritating.

I've tuned groups .003" at a time so it's in the back of my mind when I get that odd flyer. Was it the seating depth that got me ? Probably just my ocd flaring up.

Don’t overthink things. Way too many reloaders do, for whatever reasons…

 

[Jigstick]

Don’t seat bullets with a RockChucker for fucks sake. Use Wilson inline seaters and an arbor press. That will eliminate the majority of run out and variations in seating depth. And I’ve experienced definite differences in accuracy when changing seating depths by 0.002 -0.005 on bullets other than VLDs

 

[XP1K]

I love my Lyman turret press but the rock chucker has probably made more precision ammo than all of them combined- It ain't the problem.

It sounds like you honestly need to know more about what you are doing. I don't mean to sound ugly and I hope that you take thus well and as intended, which is to he helpful to you. Your post just doesn't make sense and makes it kind of obvious that you aren't quite where you need to be yet, which I'm no expert myself. I think you need to look at your set up process one step at a time. Also, 2 or 3 thou in seating depth over a decent amount of rounds could be just the bullets or your measuring technique, or the brass, ect...

Also, federal brass gave me fits and I quit using it. Buying lapua or one of the other good brass is just much better all around.

No offense taken, I'm not real good at conveying things via text. And it's true I'm still learning but at the same time I'm not new to reloading. Think I started loading for rifles when I was 14. Reloading shotgun since I was 10. Only 35 now. Loafoading for "precision" on the other hand is another story. Usually I'm happy if I can get under ¾", ½" is usually fairly easily attainable. If I've got one that hovers around the inch mark I try different powder/primer/bullet combos and if that doesn't work it goes down the road.

Most times I can find and tune a single digit sd load pretty quick but this one isn't cooperating. Started with accurate magpro and a 215m, and hornady 208 eldm. 76.0gr was traveling just over 2900 and had an sd of 7 but accuracy was horrible so I pushed the bullet in .006 and shot it again. Accuracy was still bad and the load went to pot as well, sd went up over 20. Switched to cci250 with the same load and sd went to 12 and accuracy was decent at .510" velocity was pretty close to the same.

Loaded and shot that one again today it did pretty good again with the exception of the third round flyer which I called bad when it went off. I'll probably load a few of that one and shoot at distance.

Don't have any target pics at the moment.

 

[XP1K]

I feel like of you have your die set up a 1/4 turn past bottomed out. It will cam over the same every single time. Bottom out the handle and do everything the same everytime.
Accuracy is consistency

This particular seating die you can't set up that way.

 

[Conaso]

This particular seating die you can't set up that way.

My Rock Chucker Supreme IV does not cam over. Other presses, e.g., Forster Coax, Hornady/Pacific (50yo) "Classic", etc., do have cam-over. Dies are not set up the same for both types. I could not get my new Forster FL die to size my .223/5.56 brass - at all, so I called them. Had a long discussion with the Rep., informed the Forster dies are set up for the COAX which has cam-over. Forster honed and ground down the die to .003 headspace to work with the RC. IMO - unless you're very careful, setting up a die 1/4 turn past "bottomed out" can get you in trouble with a non-cam-over press.

 

[XP1K]

So I had a face palm moment. I had four pieces of brass that I had pulled bullets from and was going to reload with something else so I ran them through the FL sizing die just to make sure everythin was equal. Before I did that though I wanted to pull the decapping pin and that's where I realized the error in my ways. For some reason I had pulled expander off and was just relying on the bushing and I don't neck turn so... No expander to make sure things were uniform, explains my neck tension issue.

Also seem to have corrected my seating depth issue. I had another rock chucker in the shop that belonged to my grandfather so I went and dug it out and it actually felt tighter than the newer press that's on my bench. So, I cleaned it up and mounted it and now the runout in my loaded ammo is .0015 over to .0005 under. Doubt I can shoot the difference in that. Got nineteen loaded with the two loads that showed the most promise, mostly just to firework the rest of this brass and then I'm going to anneal. Hopefully I can get out and shoot in the morning. Going to shoot them at 300 yards.

 

[Sigma]

if you have the coin pick up an area 419 zero with the moldular shellholder system. absolutely unbelievable.

i’d recommend the 21st century expander mandrel body with a black nitride turning arbor (sized 2 thou under bullet diameter.

if you have any questions i’d be happy to chat

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

So I had a face palm moment. I had four pieces of brass that I had pulled bullets from and was going to reload with something else so I ran them through the FL sizing die just to make sure everythin was equal. Before I did that though I wanted to pull the decapping pin and that's where I realized the error in my ways. For some reason I had pulled expander off and was just relying on the bushing and I don't neck turn so... No expander to make sure things were uniform, explains my neck tension issue.

Also seem to have corrected my seating depth issue. I had another rock chucker in the shop that belonged to my grandfather so I went and dug it out and it actually felt tighter than the newer press that's on my bench. So, I cleaned it up and mounted it and now the runout in my loaded ammo is .0015 over to .0005 under. Doubt I can shoot the difference in that. Got nineteen loaded with the two loads that showed the most promise, mostly just to firework the rest of this brass and then I'm going to anneal. Hopefully I can get out and shoot in the morning. Going to shoot them at 300 yards.

I don't use an expander and just use a bushing and have excellent SD/ES. I think your brass is your issue. That FED brass sucks. Get some legit brass and I bet you will have better results. I do have a mandrel for dented necks or something but it doesn't expand anything and I don't do it after bushing.

 

[XP1K]

I don't use an expander and just use a bushing and have excellent SD/ES. I think your brass is your issue. That FED brass sucks. Get some legit brass and I bet you will have better results. I do have a mandrel for dented necks or something but it doesn't expand anything and I don't do it after bushing.

Do you neck turn your cases ? I figured if I want to stay consistent I would need to neck turn.

Unfortunately I've got a pile of this federal brass. At the time I ordered it it was all I could find. Next time around I'll pick up something better. I think I've also got 100 pieces of remington brass here somewhere.

 

[XP1K]

if you have the coin pick up an area 419 zero with the moldular shellholder system. absolutely unbelievable.

i’d recommend the 21st century expander mandrel body with a black nitride turning arbor (sized 2 thou under bullet diameter.

if you have any questions i’d be happy to chat

If I decide to bite the bullet I think that's the route I'd like to go. That's a ways down the road though. Maybe when I get my new loading room built in my shop.

 

[Maurygold]

If I decide to bite the bullet I think that's the route I'd like to go. That's a ways down the road though. Maybe when I get my new loading room built in my shop.

You’re wasting your time reloading cheap brass. Buy lapua or you will continue to chase things if you are actually interested in precision reloading

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Do you neck turn your cases ? I figured if I want to stay consistent I would need to neck turn.

Unfortunately I've got a pile of this federal brass. At the time I ordered it it was all I could find. Next time around I'll pick up something better. I think I've also got 100 pieces of remington brass here somewhere.

I don't. I shoot lapua in everything but 6.5cm. I shoot starline brass for 6.5cm and it's my best round in terms of SD/ES and everything else really. It's been great. Lapua is obviously great but Peterson is great, Alpha is great too. Man it's so worth it to just get some good brass to shoot competitively and use that Fed brass for when you want to shoot and not pick it up.

That's what I did.

 

[XP1K]

I don't. I shoot lapua in everything but 6.5cm. I shoot starline brass for 6.5cm and it's my best round in terms of SD/ES and everything else really. It's been great. Lapua is obviously great but Peterson is great, Alpha is great too. Man it's so worth it to just get some good brass to shoot competitively and use that Fed brass for when you want to shoot and not pick it up.

That's what I did.

10-4. I've always mostly used remington brass in the past with federal being my second choice. Never had an issue up to this point. I'll probably make this it's last firing and move on from here. A friend gave me 100 pieces of Norma brass, how does it measure up ?

 

[Maurygold]

10-4. I've always mostly used remington brass in the past with federal being my second choice. Never had an issue up to this point. I'll probably make this it's last firing and move on from here. A friend gave me 100 pieces of Norma brass, how does it measure up ?

Norma is good brass and far better than Remington or federal

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

10-4. I've always mostly used remington brass in the past with federal being my second choice. Never had an issue up to this point. I'll probably make this it's last firing and move on from here. A friend gave me 100 pieces of Norma brass, how does it measure up ?

Norma isn't my favorite but its definitely a step up from fed and remington and is good brass

 

[Sigma]

i’ll never forget. Once I set up my reloading lab, I checked out some of my old components for consistency. My winchester 223 brass that I thought was good over the years had neck thickness inconsistency 3-4 thou different from side to side.

 

[JW74]

I have had a Rock Chucker Supreme for several years and it's an excellent press. I recently added the MEC Marksman and it seems even a little better. Good dies with either press and I have had very accurate and consistent loads.

 

[XP1K]

300 yards prone off bipod and a rear bag. 208 [email protected] jump, 76gr magpro, 215m, still in federal brass. Only had four left in the bunch and figured smoke'em if you got em. About to prep the few pieces of Norma I have and move on to 215 hybrids.

Shots in order they were fired.
2915
2900
2895
2858
Avg-2892
Sd-24
Es-57
That last one cooked it.

The vertical makes me wonder if there's something I'm doing wrong fundamentally.

 

[Maurygold]

View attachment 8054757
300 yards prone off bipod and a rear bag. 208 [email protected] jump, 76gr magpro, 215m, still in federal brass. Only had four left in the bunch and figured smoke'em if you got em. About to prep the few pieces of Norma I have and move on to 215 hybrids.

Shots in order they were fired.
2915
2900
2895
2858
Avg-2892
Sd-24
Es-57
That last one cooked it.

The vertical makes me wonder if there's something I'm doing wrong fundamentally.

Ditch that brass and report back after using the Norma.

 

[XP1K]

Ditch that brass and report back after using the Norma.

Okay y'all win. No more federal brass. I bet I've got 300 pieces of it lol. Should probably just toss it so I'm not tempted in the future.

 

[XP1K]

What's everybody's preferred distance for load development? Would you shoot farther if you had the means to do it or just stick with the standard 100 yards ?

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

What's everybody's preferred distance for load development? Would you shoot farther if you had the means to do it or just stick with the standard 100 yards ?

I work it on 100yds then test it at distance

 

[XP1K]

I work it on 100yds then test it at distance

Ever since I've been reloading I've always loaded 3-5 rounds for each charge, starting somewhere in the middle and working up usually in .5gr increments. I may not shoot all of them if they don't look good but is there another way I should be doing this ? I see some may load up to 10 rounds at different charge weights and look for a node where some of the different charges group together then tune that particular area in the load.

A couple times I've tried to speed up the process and loaded one round each at different charges and looked for pressure, back off one or two grains and fine tune searing depth from there. It worked out in my 308 and my 243ai.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Well there's a lot of opinions on this subject , but powder nodes don't exist so

I will first do a pressure test where I load each at .2gr intervals and go until I get pressure. Then, I drop down about 2.5 grains and that's my starting point.

I typically will start with .020" off the lands for testing and leave it there until a charge weight is picked.

I tend to prefer to load up 4 rounds per charge weight,(in case I pull one, I can call it and not mess up my test) and go .2 gr between each charge, where my max load is .25gr under where my pressure test showed me where to stop with the first signs of pressure.

I will shoot these in round Robin fashion so I don't know which group is which when shooting it. (Just labeled each one and each target with corresponding letters but not in alphabetical order then shoot them in alphabetical order and it works great.)


I will then have at least 3 targets (almost always you can see the POI move ) that all have very very similar POI. It's not accuracy or speed that I'm looking for here, it's only POI .


I then will choose the charge that is the middle charge of those that had the same POI.


Then I will load a bunch at that charge weight and start .015 off the lands, in 3 shot groups and go to about .085" off the lands. Most of the time I find that there's an area where it shoots so good there's no reason to test the rest, but if not, I will keep going to .150" off if need be.


By this point my barrel has been shot enough to be reliable and I've cleaned it several times and I feel pretty good about it.

This is just how I do it, obviously others have great success with other methods so, there's clearly more than one way. If you have good components and good methods of loading its actually not hard to get great results. Good components is critical for me

 

[XP1K]

Well there's a lot of opinions on this subject , but powder nodes don't exist so

I will first do a pressure test where I load each at .2gr intervals and go until I get pressure. Then, I drop down about 2.5 grains and that's my starting point.

I typically will start with .020" off the lands for testing and leave it there until a charge weight is picked.

I tend to prefer to load up 4 rounds per charge weight,(in case I pull one, I can call it and not mess up my test) and go .2 gr between each charge, where my max load is .25gr under where my pressure test showed me where to stop with the first signs of pressure.

I will shoot these in round Robin fashion so I don't know which group is which when shooting it. (Just labeled each one and each target with corresponding letters but not in alphabetical order then shoot them in alphabetical order and it works great.)


I will then have at least 3 targets (almost always you can see the POI move ) that all have very very similar POI. It's not accuracy or speed that I'm looking for here, it's only POI .


I then will choose the charge that is the middle charge of those that had the same POI.


Then I will load a bunch at that charge weight and start .015 off the lands, in 3 shot groups and go to about .085" off the lands. Most of the time I find that there's an area where it shoots so good there's no reason to test the rest, but if not, I will keep going to .150" off if need be.


By this point my barrel has been shot enough to be reliable and I've cleaned it several times and I feel pretty good about it.

This is just how I do it, obviously others have great success with other methods so, there's clearly more than one way. If you have good components and good methods of loading its actually not hard to get great results. Good components is critical for me

10-4 I will give that a shot. I'm going to prep the 60 pieces of Norma I have when I get home from work in the morning. It's once fired from a friends rifle so I'll full length size it, clean it, trim and go from there. Thanks for the help, I appreciate the input.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

10-4 I will give that a shot. I'm going to prep the 60 pieces of Norma I have when I get home from work in the morning. It's once fired from a friends rifle so I'll full length size it, clean it, trim and go from there. Thanks for the help, I appreciate the input.

Report back on how it went.

 

[XP1K]

Okay I just watched the Erik cortina podcast with the primal rights dude and now I'm wondering if maybe my primer seating is causing me grief.

I hand prime with an rcbs hand priming tool and you can definitely feel inconsistencies when priming. For years I just primed on my press and crammed the primers all the way to the bottom of the hole. It's just faster and more convient to hand prime. I try to do the same thing with the hand primer but I'm sure my grip isn't as consistent as the press.

 

[TxWelder35]

Okay I just watched the Erik cortina podcast with the primal rights dude and now I'm wondering if maybe my primer seating is causing me grief.

I hand prime with an rcbs hand priming tool and you can definitely feel inconsistencies when priming. For years I just primed on my press and crammed the primers all the way to the bottom of the hole. It's just faster and more convient to hand prime. I try to do the same thing with the hand primer but I'm sure my grip isn't as consistent as the press.

I don’t buy into the primer seating depth thing. Keep in mind he’s trying to sell you a $1000 gizmo.

Here is your recipe for success right here.

-Ditch every piece of brass you have.
-Go guy lapua/Peterson/alpha
-Use Berger bullets
-Load up 5 shots each .020-.030 ish off the lands in .2gn increments up til .5gn before pressure
-look for a set that has good sd/es and consistent poi
- start at .010 off and move back .010 at a time til .090 or so.
-congrats on picking your sub 1/2 moa loads.


Seriously this is a winning recipe in 2 range trips and sub 100 rounds. If you want to keep chasing your tail moving your primer .00001 at a time have at it.

How many rounds of shooting 300wm does it take during load development chasing around questionable brass before you were better off just buying known good brass in the first place?

I have never not been able to load 3/8 moa ammo in 2 range trips out of any rifle I’ve tried with this method.

Chargemaster 1500
Redding dies
Lyman turret press
Analeeez after every firing
Frankford Arsenal hand primer

Lucky enough I was forced to shoot a 100 yard group the other day to prove said statements. I pulled that one on left. 5 shot group.

 

[Sigma]

What is absolutely important is that you are getting a good seat/contact between the bottom of the primer pocket and the anvil. I like to provide 2-3 thou of “crush” to make sure everything is seated below the case head and is making firm contact.

I absolutely believe my precision improved since using the primal rights CPS.

 

[XP1K]

What is absolutely important is that you are getting a good seat/contact between the bottom of the primer pocket and the anvil. I like to provide 2-3 thou of “crush” to make sure everything is seated below the case and is making firm contact.

I absolutely believe my precision improved since using the primal rights CPS.

Yeah a six hundred dollar priming tool is nowhere in my future for what I do. That's a fair amount of primers,bullets and powder for me. As much as I would love to have one.

But I do think I'm going to go back to seating primers in my press and just smash the crap out of them to ensure some consistency in seating crush and see what that does.

 

[XP1K]

Another thing. I've got a ptg firing pin assembly in my rifle and a jewel trigger. The trigger doesn't bother me but does anyone think there may be a chance that the ptg firing pin may be causing me a lock time issue or anything ?

I've still got the factory assembly somewhere. I just thought about this after watching that video. This is my third barrel and I think this one is going to make it but the last two had identical issues as far as grouping.

I know everybody swears it's the brass and we're going to find that out in short order but I just have a hard time believing it. I've just never had that issue. But, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. I've got 75-80gr at .020" jump, loaded one round each to look for pressure and I'll fine tune from there. May get to shoot it tomorrow. Or actually later today. I hate working nights.

This Norma is a lot lighter than the federal though. I think it weighed 217-218gr per case and the federal was 246gr. I had actually sorted the federal out to 1gr increments.

 

[CK1.0]

You don't need a Zero press and definitely don't need a CPS (dumbest waste of money ever, what you had for breakfast matters more), your Rockchucker is fine.

I would recommend picking up a mandrel die and removing the expander ball from your FL die (the 21st Century expander mandrel body with a black nitride turning arbor is a good one). Using the mandrel to open up the case mouths in a separate step after sizing the outside of the case is really worth the squeeze.

But... first, before you buy anything else, take a hard look at your trigger and decide if you're truly happy with its performance.

Because, if you're comparing your groups shot with a crappy trigger with a pull-weight you measure in pounds to... IDK, groups posted on the internet that were likely shot with a TT Diamond or Bix N' Andy set to a pull-weight one measures in ounces... there's nothing you can do in the reloading room to overcome that.

Sometimes guys forget how much a good trigger matters, guys will spend thousands in the reloading room with no problem, but balk at paying a few hundred for a sick trigger that makes them happy literally every time they touch their gun... makes no sense. For example, most PRS pros run a trigger in the 4oz - 1lb range, a few run heavier, but not many, and not by much, and It's a safe bet most F-Class/Benchrest guys are in the same neighborhood.

 

[Maurygold]

Another thing. I've got a ptg firing pin assembly in my rifle and a jewel trigger. The trigger doesn't bother me but does anyone think there may be a chance that the ptg firing pin may be causing me a lock time issue or anything ?

I've still got the factory assembly somewhere. I just thought about this after watching that video. This is my third barrel and I think this one is going to make it but the last two had identical issues as far as grouping.

I know everybody swears it's the brass and we're going to find that out in short order but I just have a hard time believing it. I've just never had that issue. But, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. I've got 75-80gr at .020" jump, loaded one round each to look for pressure and I'll fine tune from there. May get to shoot it tomorrow. Or actually later today. I hate working nights.

This Norma is a lot lighter than the federal though. I think it weighed 217-218gr per case and the federal was 246gr. I had actually sorted the federal out to 1gr increments.

Priming seating depth is absolutely not why you’re shouting 2.5 inch groups.

 

[Sigma]

if you already mentioned it im sorry, im tired and need to go to bed.

what is the history on the gun? is this new to you? has it shot good groups before? with what ammo? any changes since then?

you would be surprised how good of groups you can get with not so great brass. i’ve shot a pile of 0.2moa at 100 yard 5 shot groups with my absolutely terrible winchester brass (3-4 thou difference in neck thickness when spun 180 degrees).

i would recommend playing with some different powder/bullet combos, if your rifle really likes something it will be difficult to get it to shoot bad unless something is very wrong.

 

[XP1K]

You don't need a Zero press and definitely don't need a CPS (dumbest waste of money ever, what you had for breakfast matters more), your Rockchucker is fine.

I would recommend picking up a mandrel die and removing the expander ball from your FL die (the 21st Century expander mandrel body with a black nitride turning arbor is a good one). Using the mandrel to open up the case mouths in a separate step after sizing the outside of the case is really worth the squeeze.

But... first, before you buy anything else, take a hard look at your trigger and decide if you're truly happy with its performance.

Because, if you're comparing your groups shot with a crappy trigger with a pull-weight you measure in pounds to... IDK, groups posted on the internet that were likely shot with a TT Diamond or Bix N' Andy set to a pull-weight one measures in ounces... there's nothing you can do in the reloading room to overcome that.

Sometimes guys forget how much a good trigger matters, guys will spend thousands in the reloading room with no problem, but balk at paying a few hundred for a sick trigger that makes them happy literally every time they touch their gun... makes no sense. For example, most PRS pros run a trigger in the 4oz - 1lb range, a few run heavier, but not many, and not by much, and It's a safe bet most F-Class/Benchrest guys are in the same neighborhood.

The zero press and cps would just be luxury items for me. Thats 2k I can spend on components. Maybe one day when I hit the lottery. But you have to play to win so there's that.

Trigger in this gun is a jewel currently sitting at 1lb. Honestly it's on the light side for me for this guns intended purpose. I dont compete with anyone but myself. This is primarily a hunting gun/long range toy. When I set my trigger originally I just sat down with the gun in my lap and dryfired then adjusted and dry fired some more until it felt comfortable. Ended up right at 2¼ lbs. Checked it the other day and it's down to 1 lb. Not sure what's up with that but I've gotten used to it and I'm okay with it.
I've shot crummy triggers all my life and I can actually shoot a bad trigger pretty good so I don't think it's the trigger pull that's getting me.

 

[XP1K]

if you already mentioned it im sorry, im tired and need to go to bed.

what is the history on the gun? is this new to you? has it shot good groups before? with what ammo? any changes since then?

you would be surprised how good of groups you can get with not so great brass. i’ve shot a pile of 0.2moa at 100 yard 5 shot groups with my absolutely terrible winchester brass (3-4 thou difference in neck thickness when spun 180 degrees).

i would recommend playing with some different powder/bullet combos, if your rifle really likes something it will be difficult to get it to shoot bad unless something is very wrong.

History of the gun. Purchased as a donor from a friend of mine close to ten years ago as a factory, probably 70's to 80's vintage 700 BDL. This friend is also the one that put the first barrel in it and squared up the action and the bolt. First barrel was an old shilen eight land, 10 twist number 7 contour or something like that. Straight taper finished at 26" the muzzle was .720" iirc. That barrel only had one load it would ever shoot and that was a 180gr nosler ballistic tip doing 3300fps! One shot only on that brass. Hated every factory ammo I fed it.

I pulled that barrel after 180 rounds of no luck and had a 1:9 lilja mk13 mod something contour put on it. That barrel had one load it favored as well. 208 amax around 2900 with 71.0gr of imr 4831. Shot it great. Only downside was you couldn't shoot it when it was over 75 degrees outside.

That barrel got pulled at 385 rounds by black canyon customs out of Denver. Now it wears a 1:9 bartlein heavy Palma contour finished at 26" also. Shot a .8xx with factory hornady match 178eldm and one time shot a .510" with 76gr of magpro and a 208eldm. But only once.

I was mainly playing with the eldm to put some time on the barrel. 58 down the tube right now. It was chambered around a 215 hybrid at 3.715" oal.

Speaking of which I've got to get off here and go shoot it. I've got a few loaded up in .3gr increments from 79gr to 81.2 of magpro. Hogdon data for a 210 vld says max is 82.2 and I shot the 208's up to 80 with no pressure so that's where it's at right now. To be continued.

 

[CK1.0]

The zero press and cps would just be luxury items for me. Thats 2k I can spend on components. Maybe one day when I hit the lottery. But you have to play to win so there's that.

Trigger in this gun is a jewel currently sitting at 1lb. Honestly it's on the light side for me for this guns intended purpose. I dont compete with anyone but myself. This is primarily a hunting gun/long range toy. When I set my trigger originally I just sat down with the gun in my lap and dryfired then adjusted and dry fired some more until it felt comfortable. Ended up right at 2¼ lbs. Checked it the other day and it's down to 1 lb. Not sure what's up with that but I've gotten used to it and I'm okay with it.
I've shot crummy triggers all my life and I can actually shoot a bad trigger pretty good so I don't think it's the trigger pull that's getting me.

Well shit, groups should be shrinking if the trigger is getting lighter on you lol.

Looking at neck tension can't hurt then... I know I do at least 3 extra steps I never planned to do in the name of consistent/repeatable neck tension (I think it's worth it).

The mandrel will help.

 

[XP1K]

Just burned three foulers. 180gr factory core lokt. Best group yet lol.

 

[XP1K]

High shot was from the 300 yard zero. Previous outing. Measured .636" it's best factory ammo yet. Only shot three through it at this point. 1 far left, 2 went right, 3 back with 1.

 

[XP1K]

Well I had to pull all but one that I had loaded of the 215's. Got pressure on the first shot. 79.0gr of magpro. Left a nice shiny spot from the ejector and the bolt was a little stiff at first.

Think I'll step down to 77 to start and see what happens. Maybe 77.5
Thoughts, opinions, suggestions?