Reloading for a Pre-64 Win Model 70 30-06

[ranger1183]

I need some help from Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 30-06 owners who do their own reloading.

I did some horse trading and ended up with a 1953 Winchester Model 70 chambered in .30-06. There are several different reloading specs for the .30-06, some of which are intended for the very first .30-06 actions fielded by the military, namely the 1903 Springfield.

There were a lot of technological jumps between 1903 and 1953 when this rifle was made. Not to mention the design differences between the old Springfield action and the 1953 Winchester Model 70 action.

When I do load development on todays "modern" actions, I push the loads until I see ejector flow, flattened or blown primers, etc. Outside of a blown primer breaking a Jewel trigger, I've had zero problems.

But now I'm dinking around with a 1953 action. Last thing I want to do is to be pulling metal fragments/rifle parts out of my face.

But the limited data I have found says that I have to really reduce loads on this .30-06. By reduce I mean that my .308 is pushing the same projectiles +200 fps faster than what this .30-06 is allowed to.

Even if this is an "old" 1953 action, it is still a Winchester Model 70. It's certainly not a whimpy action.

So, if you reload and shoot a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 chambered in 30-06, please let me know what the max specs you use for your loads.

Thanks!

 

[Jerry m]

Re: Reloading for a Pre-64 Win Model 70 30-06

Buy a reloading manual! Never take a MAX load from the internet! It is a disaster waiting to happen.

Any Pre-64 I loaded for used the same loads as my other rifles in the same caliber. Load for accuracy at a reasonable speed. Speed without accuracy is worthless. IMO

Good luck

Jerry

 

[MALLARD]

Re: Reloading for a Pre-64 Win Model 70 30-06

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Last thing I want to do is to be pulling metal fragments/rifle parts out of my face. </div></div>

sounds fun

 

[j-huskey]

Re: Reloading for a Pre-64 Win Model 70 30-06

"When I do load development on todays "modern" actions, I push the loads until I see ejector flow, flattened or blown primers, etc. Outside of a blown primer breaking a Jewel trigger, I've had zero problems."

You have been very lucky.

Your pre-64 is safe with any modern load produced by factory ammunition makers, as is any 1903 after serial # 1,257,767 for Springfields.
As long as you stay around 50,000psi chamber pressure, you are in a safe zone that will not hurt your rifle.

 

[bohem]

Re: Reloading for a Pre-64 Win Model 70 30-06

That action will take pressure far in excess of the brass. Instead of looking for blown primers on pressure you can use the extractor groove method. Measure the extractor groove of a piece of once fired brass from that chamber. Load something soft, shoot it. Measure the groove diameter and write it down. Now do load work up with the cases that have been shot and measured.

You are watching for the extractor groove to grow by 0.001" or more as the pressure comes up. Once that happens you're around 64ksi with the std bolt face, large primer pocket case head design. Back the loads off and look for an accuracy node below this point.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Reloading for a Pre-64 Win Model 70 30-06

I just sounds strange to me that the Model 70 action can only handle 58,740 psi (CIP spec) - 60,000 psi (SAAMI spec) from a .30-06, but rechambered in .270 Winchester that very same action can suddenly handle 62,366 psi (CIP spec) - 65,000 psi (SAAMI spec).

Back in 1936, Pre-WW2 Model 70's were originally chambered in either .30-06 Springfield or .270 Winchester. What I'm working with is a "more advanced" 1953 Model 70.

I also found that in 1958 the Winchester Model 70 was released in .264 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag and 458 Win Mag. Besides the bolt face diameter, was the Model 70 action made stronger in some way than the 1953 action to accommodate these magnums?

I'm not finding anything in the history books regarding such a re-design. Which causes me to circle back to the original question regarding the "reduced" max loads on a .30-06 and NOT the .270 Winchester.

As a side note, when considering reloading "hot" ammo, look at the extremely high pressures the military is using in the MK 248 MOD 1 .300 Win Mag Match ammo. This ammo is loaded so hot that much of the brass is reportedly "one shot only" because of the primer pockets. Any way you cut it that is HOT ammo, yet it is being fielded as we speak by the military.

So yeah, I know the routine. NEVER LOAD OVER MAX SPEC's! Got it. And please have a nice day!

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Reloading for a Pre-64 Win Model 70 30-06

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jhuskey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As long as you stay around 50,000psi chamber pressure, you are in a safe zone that will not hurt your rifle.</div></div>
50,000 psi?

If that's the case then my .308 Weatherby Vangard can kick the crap out of this .30-06 Winchester Model 70! I can appreciate the "fasten your seat belt and don't talk on the phone while driving" safety spiel, but the reality is that the .30-06 simply can't be that handicapped, can it?

 

[j-huskey]

Re: Reloading for a Pre-64 Win Model 70 30-06

"I just sounds strange to me that the Model 70 action can only handle 58,740 psi (CIP spec) - 60,000 psi (SAAMI spec) from a .30-06, but rechambered in .270 Winchester that very same action can suddenly handle 62,366 psi (CIP spec) - 65,000 psi (SAAMI spec).
50,000 psi? If that's the case then my .308 Weatherby Vangard can kick the crap out of this .30-06 Winchester Model 70! I can appreciate the "fasten your seat belt and don't talk on the phone while driving" safety dogma, but the reality is that the .30-06 simply can't be that handicapped, can it? "

It can safely handle the 300WM pressures. I have a 52 and 55 that were 300H&H's at one time that are now 300WM's, and yes, they will handle way higher than 50K and yes, 65K.
There were no mods to make them stronger, thats why you don't find any written reference to such (your earlier post). They are all the same action with minor mods for the magnum calibers that have nothing to do with strength.

As far as hotrodding a load, let your conscience be your guide.

I have my personal reasons for keeping loads on a historical rifle lower pressure and more fun to shoot. Enjoy your new "old" rifle.