Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

smack

smack

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 4, 2003
536
1
North Central Washington
#1
I just reloaded 5 cartridges for a 6.5 Grendel I just put together, using Hornady dies.

AA-Lapua brass
450 Primer
29gr IMR 4895
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
2.250

I took the 5 loaded cartridges, stuffed them in a C-Products magazine. Took the carbine out side and cycled all five through the carbine(with out firing them). I then remeasured the overall length and the average for all five was 2.265. A average of +15 thou after being ejected from the chamber. It's not rocket science to know I am contacting the lands and the bullet is hanging up a little before releasing from the lands upon ejection.

Is this normal?

Do I need to crimp?

Should I seat deeper?

Is there not enough neck tension and the bullet is being thrown into the lands as the bolt slams/locks into battery??????????????????????/
 
#2
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

The problem is probably not with the bullet touching the lands. The issue is most likely the way you are measuring. Most bullets (even match bullets) vary in length from ogive to tip. Because you are measuring from the base to tip you are getting variation. The seater seats the bullets off the ogive, not the tip. If you had a comparator to measure from base to ogive, I can almost guarantee you would be nearly dead on. Get the right tools for the job.

Josh
 
#5
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

I don't think you understand. The bullet seater does not push on the tip of the bullet when seating. It pushes on the ogive/bearing surface junction. What you need to buy is a bullet comparator. Hornady sells one of fine quality. You clamp it on a caliper, zero the caliper out and then measure. I am almost certain that if you use that measurement that all the cartridges will be within a thousandth.

The COAL in reloading books is a good guideline, but it is not the end all. Tips on bullets vary and that is where you measurement discrepancies are coming from. Again, buy the appropriate equipment. The only reason I would ever worry about COAL is making sure they fit in the mag. Set your seater and forget about it.

Josh
 
#6
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

Read my post here so you understand the difference between COAL and base to ogive length. This will link you to my post with pictures describing the process, but the entire thread is a good read.

Link

Josh
 
#8
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's not rocket science to know I am contacting the lands and the bullet is hanging up a little before releasing from the lands upon ejection.

Is this normal?

Do I need to crimp?

Should I seat deeper?

Is there not enough neck tension and the bullet is being thrown into the lands as the bolt slams/locks into battery??????????????????????/ </div></div>

The rocket science line and your last question are rather contradictory.

What is your neck tension?
Where is the leade in your chamber?
 
#9
#10
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

Yep, those are the "tools". The leade measurement rod for a gasser is curved to fit in through the ejection port. Not trying to be difficult, but you might see if you can't link up with an experienced reloader in your area. This is stuff you should know before rolling your own.

Josh
 
#11
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

It's not the ogive, so trash that concept. I can seat the bullet at 2.20 with a crimp and after chambering and ejection. The problem still exists. "experienced reloader " laughable to say the least.
 
#13
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

Have you looked at the bullet after ejecting? You should be able to see marks from the lands if it is making contact. You may need a magnifier of some sort to see it. Sounds like you may have a very short throat and you will need to seat deeper. I never look at a coal or a "book max" number when I load. they are only references, and every rifle is different. I find a good beginning charge weight and work up from there, and then I find the lands in my barrel and work from there. I have a couple of rifles with very long throats that I can't reach because of mag restrictions and I hate that, because it limits you in your loading. A coal number is meaningless to me because I find that number is never a match for my rifle. I suppose you could have a barrel that has no leade, but that would be very unusual. Try one round at a time, and look for marks. If it is indeed pulling the bullet out a ways, you WILL be able to see it. Let us know what you find.
 
#14
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

Measure the rounds. With a Markalot, write the round's oal on its case. Do this to each one. Try your cycle experiment again.

If they are longer, after being chambered, remove the expander button from your decapper.
 
#15
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe someone will jump in here that isn't stuck on the ogive theory. That's already been ruled out. </div></div>

my questions have nothing to do with OAL variances from you not measuring the ogive, they have everything to do with the relationship of the bullet to your rifle's rifling.

You started the post with a watertight, "no rocket scientist needed" then went another direction, and I'm not the one asking the internet to troubleshoot my lack of reloading ability.

Again, WTF is your neck tension, where is the leade in your chamber? If you don't/can't answer those and are balking at the suggestion to get with an experienced reloader, then good luck to you-you obviously know just enough to be dangerous but too much to learn anything.
 
#16
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not the ogive, so trash that concept. I can seat the bullet at 2.20 with a crimp and after chambering and ejection. The problem still exists. "experienced reloader " laughable to say the least. </div></div>

Absolutely correct. Someone thinks his measuring device is the be-all, end-all. A significant change in OAL is just that. It almost has to be related to neck tension or something defective in the size die.

Be sure there is no lube in the case neck before bullet seating and try again without the expander ball in the sizer. Also try measuring the OD of the case necks before and after sizing (with and without the expander ball) and if possible compare the reloaded neck OD to some factory rounds. Maybe something will stand out.

ETA: Another test is to load a couple of dummies extra long. Chamber one easy and the other one hard, and see if anything changes.

 
#17
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

If I ride the bolt with the charging handle while chambering " soft chamber" at 2.250 there are no marks on the bullet and the overall length is the same after I eject them. If I drop the bolt on a loaded round then I get the marks and the excessive length after ejection.
 
#20
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

I purchased the upper from a member here on the hide about 2 weeks ago, I have pm'd him several times but have not gotten a response. I'm going to try removing the expanded from my Hornady dies, if that doesn't work. I'm going to purchase a different set of bushing dies. I was told by the seller it's a Alexander barrel that was turned down to lighten it up.
 
#21
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

Could a Enidine buffer change the dynamics of chambering, due to the fact my same loaded rounds chamber fine in another Grendel/ AA barrel withh a standard buffer. I'm thinking NECK TENSION is the issue here. I'm almost sure the bullet is being thrown forward upon chambering.
 
#22
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could a Enidine buffer change the dynamics of chambering, due to the fact my same loaded rounds chamber fine in another Grendel/ AA barrel withh a standard buffer. I'm thinking NECK TENSION is the issue here. I'm almost sure the bullet is being thrown forward upon chambering. </div></div>

Swap lowers and see if it makes any difference. Possibly the buffer spring, if excessively strong, might have some effect.
 
#23
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doesn't that sound like a neck tension issue then?

Which is something already asked and not answered. </div></div>

yup
 
#24
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

I thought you said that you crimped each round and still encountered problems. By the way, I never said it was an ogive issue.I just told you to make sure you take measurements from there as you will get less variance. If you are getting marks (something not originally specified) then your rifle has a short leade. To figure out what that length is you need to get the three instruments shown above. I never meant any offense, but the original info could indicate all sorts of different issues. There are a ton of people who have no business reloading and it is sometimes hard to separate them from others on the internet.

Josh
 
#25
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

Smack, r-e-m-o-v-e the expander button from the sizer if you have not already. Doing so will increase neck tension.

Oops
wink.gif
Read your post. You addressed that. Keep us posted.
 
#26
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

Well, after a 10 hour shift of welding with plenty of time to think about the issue with my carbine. I got home and did the sharpie/bullet deal and found that my overall length to touch the lands is right at about 2.270 with the 100gr Nosler BT. This leaves a neck tension issue, I removed the de-capper/ expander from my Hornady die and ran 20 cases through. I will load them up tomorrow when time permits and give them a try and see if the problem still exists.
 
#28
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootist87122</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone thinks his measuring device is the be-all, end-all. A significant change in OAL is just that.</div></div>

Significant, huh? .015 is less than half a millimeter. You can easily get that error between two measurements of the same cartridge if you are measuring the COAL. Not saying those measuring devices are the end-all, be-all, but if you want to make life easier on yourself those help. Look at how many threads ask about variances in COAL. Most wind up inaccurate due to shoddy measuring practices. That was my first theory.

It wasn't until long after my first couple of posts that it came to light that the OP was seeing rifling marks on the bullets. Always helpful to know, yet was not included in the original post.

I guess you can be "experienced" and not "knowledgeable". That may be fine for hunting...and if that is the OP's case - good to go. However, if it is about precision shooting, not knowing what the hell I was referring to (he obviously didn't) isn't going to yield the best results.

Now Smack, some helpful advice:
Many people crimp in gas guns to keep the projectiles from getting pushed farther INTO the case, but if this is truly a neck tension issue that is allowing the bullet to move forward when the bolt is dropped you should be able to pull the bullet forward in the case with simple finger pressure. The inertia acting on that bullet should not be greater than finger pressure. If they move at that point then it is the die.

Josh
 
#29
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootist87122</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone thinks his measuring device is the be-all, end-all. A significant change in OAL is just that.</div></div>

Significant, huh? .015 is less than half a millimeter. You can easily get that error between two measurements of the same cartridge if you are measuring the COAL. Not saying those measuring devices are the end-all, be-all, but if you want to make life easier on yourself those help. Look at how many threads ask about variances in COAL. Most wind up inaccurate due to shoddy measuring practices. That was my first theory.

It wasn't until long after my first couple of posts that it came to light that the OP was seeing rifling marks on the bullets. Always helpful to know, yet was not included in the original post.

I guess you can be "experienced" and not "knowledgeable". That may be fine for hunting...and if that is the OP's case - good to go. However, if it is about precision shooting, not knowing what the hell I was referring to (he obviously didn't) isn't going to yield the best results.

Now Smack, some helpful advice:
Many people crimp in gas guns to keep the projectiles from getting pushed farther INTO the case, but if this is truly a neck tension issue that is allowing the bullet to move forward when the bolt is dropped you should be able to pull the bullet forward in the case with simple finger pressure. The inertia acting on that bullet should not be greater than finger pressure. If they move at that point then it is the die.

Josh </div></div>

Two measurements of the same COL - with any decent set of calipers - should not vary more than .001 to .002". I sometimes see bullets grow in length when chambering dummies in an A/R, but never more than a couple of thousands.

I think you may be referring to the COL measurements of different loaded rounds, where some variation is normal.
 
#30
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

I meant what I said. While it shouldn't vary more than a thou or two, if the cartridge is slightly canted in the caliper jaws it can cause that error. I've seen people do it. I always find it funny that people are so quick to ask a question, clearly do not understand a response, and then dismiss it without further investigation. The OP says it isn't the measurement, but never said anything about marks on the bullet until afterward. You can't rule out the measurement unless you can actually measure it based on what was stated. Whatever, I hope it gets figured out. But if you can't figure it out yourself you probably need help and reloading is best helped from close by.

Josh
 
#32
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

Way to much thought being put into measuring tools here, anybody that can read can use a set of calipers and see a consistent .001" change in COAL without needing ogive based tools.

OP, it's defiantly a neck tension problem, measure the OD of the neck before and after seating a bullet to see just how much neck tension you have, if it's not at least .003-4" of neck tension then take the expander ball out and sand it down with a piece of fine wet/dry sand paper while spinning it in a drill or such to reduce the size by .001-2" as needed until the bullet stops moving during chambering.

The bullet does not need to be loose enough in the neck to move by hand for this problem to occur like was said above(maybe he was thinking of chambering a bolt rifle).

The round sees a lot of force when slammed home by the BCG so the bullet will move forward a little(.001-2") even with good neck tension, so don't sweat the little stuff, but .015" is a little to much.
 
#33
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

Smack, what dies are you sizing with? If you are using bushing dies, then just use a size down. Not sure if they make bushing dies for the grendel though, I gotta be honest.
 
#34
Re: Reloading trauma with a 6.5 Grendel.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, after a 10 hour shift of welding with plenty of time to think about the issue with my carbine. I got home and did the sharpie/bullet deal and found that my overall length to touch the lands is right at about 2.270 with the 100gr Nosler BT. This leaves a neck tension issue, I removed the de-capper/ expander from my Hornady die and ran 20 cases through. <span style="font-weight: bold">I will load them up tomorrow when time permits and give them a try and see if the problem still exists.</span> </div></div>

Smack,

Did this work/did you figure this out?

Thanks,

-Pat
 
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