Rem 700 AAC-SD blues

[JR1]

I bought a Remington 700 AAC-SD 20" last summer and I'm about ready to sell it. The goal was to get a (relatively) light, handy, suppressed hunting rifle capable of 1 MOA with FGMM out to 500. Not exactly a lofty goal in my book.

By way of background, I am an active shooter, veteran, and a full-time LEO. My skewed standard of comparison comes by way of my HS Precision HTR .308 that has spoiled me into believing that 1 MOA out to 500 yards is entirely reasonable and repeatable.

The gun started out as a 2 MOA shooter running 168FGMM. I ended up cutting the barrel after I saw the terrible factory crown.


180 turn to see the other side of the crown:


I have tried a Nikon 4-12 and a Leupold VX-2 mil-dot. I'm hesitant to pull a better scope off another rifle because I have shot sub MOA with these scopes on other new rifles.

Here are my efforts to make it a shooter:
- Switched to a McMillan stock. The OEM stock was not free floated.
- Trigger job (factory trigger wouldn't adjust below 4.5 lbs)
- Barrel cut, rethreaded, and match recessed crown.



I guess I am spoiled by my current rifles, but even some of my gas guns will shoot under MOA regularly.
This one is still only a 1.5 MOA average shooter, but that average includes some 2+ MOA groups with wild flyers. (All groups are 5-shot.) The best group it has ever shot was 7/8". By way of comparison, my HS's average after 2,800 rounds is 0.90 MOA, and that includes a lot of 0.5 MOA groups and a few 0.25 MOA groups. My AR-10's average after 2,900 rounds is 0.98 MOA. I have burned up 350 rounds of FGMM on this gun and I don't know what else to do.

Even with this work done, the gun still malfunctions. Sometimes it ejects a live round while chambering a fresh round. Alternately, it sometimes won’t pick up a round even when the bolt is pulled full rearward repeatedly. Occasionally it releases two rounds from the mag at once and double-feeds.

I have thought about getting an AICS stock, but that would be contrary to the concept of a light, handy hunting rifle.

Is 1.5 MOA all I should expect? Should I cut my losses and sell it or is there something I'm missing? I'm thinking about using the money from selling it to buy a 16" HS as a lighter option to my 24" HS.



Many thanks,
JR

 

[Boltfluter]

JrJR

THIS BARREL MAY BE A GOOD CANDIDATE FOR FIRE LAPPING? JUST A THOUGHT?

PAUL

 

[JR1]

Thanks, Paul.
I've never fire lapped before. I have 350 rounds through the barrel. Do you think that would be enough to smooth out any imperfections?

JR

 

[Boltfluter]

JRJR,

Hard to say. The nice thing about fire lapping is it will even out any tight spots that may be present. Something that shooting generally will not accomplish. Also works well to get rid of or minimize any tooling marks that may be present. David Tubbs makes a nice lapping kit. Great guy to talk to as well. Good luck.

Regards, Paul

 

[Sierra770]

Like you, I too am assigned a H-S HTR, which performs fantastically as my primary Sniper Rifle. I have learned to temper my expectations with my own builds as well as the gassers that are in our inventory because of the repeatability and accuracy of the HTR. That being said the 700 aac should be around 1MOA. I have seen a couple of SPSs shoot better and some shoot slightly worse. If the McMillian didn't get you the accuracy you wanted it is unlikely the AICS will either. You may want to try some 175smk to see how they perform. Your 700 aac may not digest the 168s very well.

 

[emaher308]

Mine held 2moa groups out to 700 yards with 168 gr amaxs switched to 178 amax held 3/4moa I'd try some different ammo before you give up

 

[emaher308]

Mine held 2moa groups out to 700 yards with 168 gr amaxs switched to 178 amax held 3/4moa I'd try some different ammo before you give up

 

[Cegorach]

I had excellent luck with the Final Finish kit (fire lapping) on my sps tactical. It made cleaning much easier and improved consistency significantly.

 

[Hammertime]

I have the same rifle and noticed the greatest increase in accuracy by shooting 175's from Southwest Ammo. Prior to installing a DBM, I shot it single shot because the internal mag was so unreliable. I brought my son out to shoot it for the first time and he put 4 out of 5 through the same hole and the "flyer" was touching, so I know the rifle will shoot. I have had my moments with the rifle though, it was a rough start.

 

[Seefour]

Also look into shimming the barrel so it free floats. It helped mine slightly before I just gave up and went chassis.

 

[desert dog]

The extremely crappy factory stock is what is killing your accuracy. Very common for groups to get cut in half after a stock change with these rifles.

 

[ptaylortx]

Mine would shoot .75 out of the box. Upgraded to a bedded B&C medalist stock and timney trigger. It's .5 moa out to 300 with handloads. Maybe you got a Monday rifle after a weekend bender.

 

[Jerry45]

Yours shot better than mine.

100 Yds.

Tried SMK 168 & 175, SGK 165 & Hornady 150 RNFB. Shot over 1, 000 rounds playing with bullets, seating depths and powders. Never got any better.

I replaced the barrel with a Bartlein 11 1/4 twist Sendaro.

First three shots at 100 Yds. with SMK 168. Does the same with SGK 165.

 

[recon762wt]

Here are my efforts to make it a shooter:
- Switched to a McMillan stock. The OEM stock was not free floated.
- Trigger job (factory trigger wouldn't adjust below 4.5 lbs)
- Barrel cut, rethreaded, and match recessed crown.

Are these things you have done to make the rifle more accurate, or plan on doing. I see the barrel mod, but the pictures don't indicate anything else has been done? (They could be old though)


Is 1.5 MOA all I should expect? Should I cut my losses and sell it or is there something I'm missing? I'm thinking about using the money from selling it to buy a 16" HS as a lighter option to my 24" HS.

My two cents below...

Many thanks,
JR

JR,

I have owned a AAC-SD 20" for about two years and just recently picked up a AAC-SD 16.5" and I can definitely sympathize with your frustration. Out of the box both rifles varied depending on the types of ammo I shot.

I found that the 20" SPS really favored 175gr and 180gr loads loaded towards max powder charge. I was getting consistent .75 MOA groups with most 175r match ammo. It also shot 168gr loads well, but they tended to come in somewhere around 1 MOA. I'm sure with more fine tuning I could come up with a .5 MOA load, but I'm happy where the rifle's at.

When I first took the 16.5" to the range I thought it would favor 175gr loads. It has the same twist rate as the 20", just less barrel length. I tried five different 175gr loads and they ranged between 1moa - 1.5moa. Results I was not happy with. However, I tried two brands of 168gr loads and they both produced sub .5MOA results.

These rifles seem to be picky with ammo. I'm guessing that maybe because you shortened the length there is a happy load medium out there that will work for your rifle. I would try out a few different bullet weights and charges to see how they preform.

 

[SPDSNYPR]

First off - I thought this was hilarious:

I am an active shooter

Awesome. Enough fun.

I looked at JR1's rifle today - and I noticed 2 things.

First - the scope base needs to be bedded. It's not terrible, but I can see daylight on the rear when the front is tightened. This is an easy enough fix.

Secondly - I noticed the rifle was sitting caddy-whompus in the stock. I pulled the barreled action, and the recoil lug looks crooked. When I put it in the HS stock, it sits straight until I tighten it. I bet the lug is sitting high enough on one side that it's causing it to torque when you tighten the stock. This torqueing could also be contributing to the mag not seating correctly, and your rounds ejecting from the mag (it did that also for me - I've never seen that happen before). I think I have a few spare BDL mags and trigger guard lying around - I'll check. I don't have a barrel vise and action wrench, so I can't do anything about the lug. Below is a pic - it's easier to see in real life vs my crappy cell pics.

BTW - the camo job is hideous. I'd fire whoever did it. The custom cheek piece makes up for the camo. That must have cost a fortune. Is that a GAP job?

 

[Quickdrawn]

As far as the problem with you're having with the bolt I've had that same problem with two of the four Remington 700s I own. What I found out fixes it is putting in either a chassis/stock with a detachable mag system or installing your own. I installed a surgeon rifles bottom metal that uses AI mags and it works great for me. It looks like it lets the rounds sit just a fraction of an inch further forward and slightly higher where the bolt can catch the back end of the round as it goes forward. Also, I agree with the other guys about trying some different ammo. My AAC-SD shoots 175/180gr rounds like magic, consistent .5 MOA groups. Because you cut the barrel down you may need to use a lighter grain weight, just a thought. I've never actually had an issue with the Remington x-mark pro triggers. I've only replaced one Remington trigger and that was on my .338 LM bench rifle. I can bring them down to roughly ~2.5-3.5lbs which just so happens to be right where I like it.

 

[Jerry45]

Have mine in a Bell & Carlson M40. Wouldn't shoot under 2" at 100. Tried everything. Did notice the recoil lug only made contact on the bottom edge. After 1,000 + rounds I got tired of fighting it. I put a Bartlein Sendaro 1-11 1/4 barrel on. It now shoots 1/4 moa at 100. I wanted to post pics but the site is giving me trouble.

My original post finally showed up. # 13. Their's the picks.

 

[SPDSNYPR]

Haven't heard back from the Remington guy on whether the lug may be the big problemo.

 

[MontanaMarine]

I've had issue with a Rem SPS Varmint where the bolt handle contacted the rear of the stock inlet on closing the bolt. This effectively unseated the lugs.

I took a round file to open the bolt inlet of the stock. Now the bolt lugs are where they should be on firing, and accuracy settled down to about .6-.7 moa.

 

[TheShooter]

I had a 223 pss that wouldn't shoot. Here is what I did:
cut barrel to 22" and recrowned
did Tubbs Final Finish firelapping (all 50 rounds)
put in McMillan stock and bedded it

I have put 20 shots in 2 moa at 500 yards with this rifle. At 100, it is a consistent 0.5 moa shooter. Another part of it is I found a load that it really likes.

I would make sure the rifle is properly bedded in your stock and do the firelapping. Both of these are relatively inexpensive at this point other than time.

 

[Alaskaman11]

I have this rifle and after I put a Timmney Trigger and an XLR Stock, the rifle went from a 2moa rifle to a 1moa rifle at 500 after I did the additions. This is doing a 175 SMK. the standard M118LR home remake with 41.3 gn of RL15.

 

[fubar1217]

Doesn't the 1:10 twist of this barrel favor 175's? Either way, that crooked recoil lug doesn't look like it helps anything.

 

[Capt Beach]

Looking at this image...it does appear as if the lug in off...does this run a locator pin like the Savages do? It couldn't hurt but I'd saturate the area with penetrating oil, let it sit and then take a small ball peen hammer and give it a tap or two on the corner...not enough to damage or mark up the lug but just enough to perhaps square it up...if it does square up remount it in the stock and take it to the range...might cure your problem...and save you disassembling it and headspacing/tightening...but it could also loosen the barrel. Looking at it I think when you place it into the stock and tight it down your torquing the stock AND the action...If it was me thats what I'd try to do...

 

[TheShooter]

While a rotated barrel lug is not a good thing, my concern would be that the barrel lug is making contact on the bottom. This would certainly cause major accuracy issues.

 

[JR1]

Thanks for all of the great replies so far. To answer a few questions:
I have already changed the stock. That pic is an old one. Here's a new one:

This pic shows SPDSnyper's "unusual" camo job he did when he mounted the new stock. And it shows my hooptie stock riser avec masking tape. It's not fancy, but it works.

I hate to be a lazy slob, but I get a good deal of 168FGMM at work, so if this stick doesn't like that load, I'm not keeping it. I reload plenty, and it would be nice to have something that just shoots my service load (like my HS does).

SPDSnyper, what do you think about Capt Beach's idea?

 

[SPDSNYPR]

I can give it a shot. Aluminum vice blocks at work, plenty of Kroil, and a big freaking hammer. It's worth a try. I like hitting stuff with hammers.

 

[scudzuki]

Why not just grind the bottom and side of the recoil lug square if you are concerned it is contacting the stock?

Joe

 

[TxShooter63]

I have only seen two of these rifles shoot personally and both were under 1/2 moa rifles and both had been moved to a AI chassis. My guess is now that you have moved to a new chassis with no real improvement, you are probably looking at a new barrel to solve the issue.

 

[Capt Beach]

Thanks for all of the great replies so far. To answer a few questions:
I have already changed the stock. That pic is an old one. Here's a new one:

This pic shows SPDSnyper's "unusual" camo job he did when he mounted the new stock. And it shows my hooptie stock riser avec masking tape. It's not fancy, but it works.

I hate to be a lazy slob, but I get a good deal of 168FGMM at work, so if this stick doesn't like that load, I'm not keeping it. I reload plenty, and it would be nice to have something that just shoots my service load (like my HS does).

SPDSnyper, what do you think about Capt Beach's idea?

I am salivating at the FGMM MATCH BRASS JUST THROWN AROUND ON THE GROUND....have you ball peen'd it yet...the more I look at that pic of the lug the more I believe thats your issue...when you apply proper torque to the action screws when assembling it to the stock you are getting a twisting motion on both the receiver and the stock...not good in any way shape or form...straighten that out and my gut tells me that it will start shooting a lot better...IF it does see some marked improvement then my next move would be to GLASS BED the action into the stock BEFORE I go messing with a barrel change... can't hurt...

Capt Beach

 

[TB2Blazer]

I am in the same boat you are in. Tried every load imaginable, swapped the stock, timney trigger the works and it still won't shoot better than about a minute and a half at 300. Shot it at 600 the other day and can't even get it to hit a 8x10" steel. My crown looks a bit worse than yours does. I'm a paycheck away from sending an order to Bartlein for the M40 contour 1-11 1/4 barrel and throw that hunk of crap factory barrel in the trash. Its sad that I will be spending more on just a new barrel than I did on the rifle its self. I wish to hell I had bought a 5r in the first place and spared myself all the trouble and money.

 

[SPDSNYPR]

I am salivating at the FGMM MATCH BRASS JUST THROWN AROUND ON THE GROUND....Capt Beach

BTW- department policy - we sell all our Black Hills match ammo once fired brass for scrap. Thousands of rounds every year. .223 is likely 30k per year, maybe 5k .308. We can't separate it out and sell it, take it home - it's put in a very large bin, weighed, and scrapped.

If work is slow tomorrow I'll try the hammer. So - here comes the hammer. Uh oh - hammer time.

 

[downhill]

Got one in a Manners stock. Initially Accuracy was dismal at best 2" at 100. The problem I found was 3 tenths of an inch freebore. Sent it to Texas Brigade Armory and had Mike cut .375 off and rechamber to my 155 Palma handload (love the 155's). Went with .015 freebore to play with seating depths. It now holds an honest 1/2 to 5/8 with the factory barrel.

 

[Capt Beach]

Got one in a Manners stock. Initially Accuracy was dismal at best 2" at 100. The problem I found was 3 tenths of an inch freebore. Sent it to Texas Brigade Armory and had Mike cut .375 off and rechamber to my 155 Palma handload (love the 155's). Went with .015 freebore to play with seating depths. It now holds an honest 1/2 to 5/8 with the factory barrel.

One way to test that theory is to load some long heavies that kiss the lands...if the accuracy increases might be the problem...

 

[SPDSNYPR]

The hammer thing worked. No pics yet. I soaked the junction around the lug with kroil, let it sit about an hour, and put it in some vise blocks. After some whacks with a hammer, it's as close to straight as my eyeballs can see. I'll try it in the stock once I find a spare mag, then put it together and let him give it a shot.

Frankly - I was surprised little the whacking marked up the lug - you could barely see anything It took quite a few good whacks, but clearly moved.

I've got devcon and JB weld. Which would be better for betting a scope base?

 

[Capt Beach]

The hammer thing worked. No pics yet. I soaked the junction around the lug with kroil, let it sit about an hour, and put it in some vise blocks. After some whacks with a hammer, it's as close to straight as my eyeballs can see. I'll try it in the stock once I find a spare mag, then put it together and let him give it a shot.

Frankly - I was surprised little the whacking marked up the lug - you could barely see anything It took quite a few good whacks, but clearly moved.

I've got devcon and JB weld. Which would be better for betting a scope base?

Great news...I thought that would work...both JB and Devcon will work fine...I cant wait to see what happens...also...if htat helps...try loading some 210-220s long into the lands...see what happens...

 

[JR1]

No joy. Still 1.5 to 2 MOA. I might look into cutting and rechambering it.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Did you bed the rifle when it was in the McMillan? They typically need betting and won't improve accuracy over a factory stock without being bedded. Have you shot it without the can? If that's an AAC QD sometimes they can do weird things.

I see you have it in a HS Precision now and you straightened out the lug. If it won't hold MOA now then most likely it's got going to.

 

[5RWill]

Kind of scares me. Really want to pick one up for 600$ would love to put it in a different stock and have a decent truck gun. If QC is that bad i might venture to get the 20" threaded 5R, sell the HS stock and go. Friend of mine just picked up one today we didn't shoot any groups or anything so we'll see.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

For what it's worth my AAC-SD shot 1/2 MOA with LC M118LR and FGMM 175gr. It didn't care for 168 stuff but it wasn't 2MOA with it. It was in a B&C stock from round one and got 100 rounds of M80 ball fired as a break in before any match ammo was fired. A friend bought one as well but kept the factory hogue and it was a 1MOA gun.

 

[Capt Beach]

OK...you straightened out the recoil lug...Now bed that McMillan Stock...then my next step would be to load some 220grain heavies just kissing the lands...if that doesn't fix it re-barrel it but consider buying a Criterion or other REM-AGE barrel and running it with a barrel nut...you can do your own barrel changes from then out...

Savage & Rem/Age Pre-Fit Barrel

 

[JR1]

Just an update:

I had the barrel bore scoped and examined by a master machinist gunsmith tonight. The chamber isn't exactly a "match" chamber. He thinks that's the problem. The rifling starts at 6 o'clock before it starts at 12 o'clock. His recommendation is to get a Lothar-Walther and a .308 reamer and scrap the OEM tube if I want a true MOA gun.

Strange thing though: I shot several groups at 300 and I got one 3" and four 4" groups. (5 each with 168FGMM) That's 1.25 MOA. I wonder if the bullet is catching the offset rifling and not spinning true at 100, but stabilizes down range. (?)

I might sell it to a buddy in a sister Agency and take a few hundred loss. That way I could save up for another HS. That's the one gun I have that will just always shoot at least 1 MOA - hot, cold, dirty, or clean. It just weighs 18 lbs.

The other option is to put my Night scope on this one and make it a dedicated night varmint gun. I load up 175-grain subsonics over 7 grains of Titegroup that are so quiet they make me giggle. And it groups them 1.5" for 5 at 100. Good skunk medicine.

Thanks for all of the excellent advice, gentlemen!