Rifle Scopes Remington 2020 ditial tracking scope

[RHunter]

There is a new tracking sight system being offered by Remington called the 2020. This is based off the tracking point system however it does not share all of the same features. Primarily the one where you can hold the trigger and the rifle will not fire until it is on target.

There is a write-up about the new system in the January issue of American Rifleman and I just wanted to get everyone's thoughts.

My first impression is- What a letdown. It is limited to 500 yards and only three factory loads are programmed into the scope, 2 from Remington, and one from Barnes. It is primarily targeted to the hunting market.

It is also limited to work on their rifles only, a .223 Bushmaster, a 30-06 and a .308 SPS tactical.

Remington could have made a fortune on this technology if they would allow a user to program in hand loads and enabled the range to at least 1,200 yards in a model for the long range paper/steel shooters. The fact that you only have 3 choices of boxed ammo you can use and you have to use the system on a factory-built rifle puts this in the flop category in my opinion. MSRP for the system and one of Remmington's rifles is $5575.00. Considering the Tracking Point System is priced at $22,000 to $27,000... It is attractively priced, just lacks some really core features I would want before I would shell out the cash for one.

If you could program your own load info and use it on a custom built rig, and extend the range to 1,200 yards, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

Bad thing about this technology is, It really takes the challege out of long range shooting which to me is the fun of the sport.

 

[Delta4-3]

If someone doesn't have the fundamentals in place to make first round hits at a distance as relatively short as 500 yards, I doubt this technology will help them to do so any better.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

not sure the technology is capable of the distances long range shooters would want it for. Then, if your under 500 yards, I don't really see much of a need for it when fairly basic marksmanship skills can get decent groups?

 

[Rob01]

I am sure it will be a hit in the "I think I can buy skill and I have too much money in my pocket" crowd. Anyone truly interested in making hits will spend that money in more useful places.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

also, I just saw one on the front page of American rifleman - and its UGLY...

 

[RHunter]

If someone doesn't have the fundamentals in place to make first round hits at a distance as relatively short as 500 yards, I doubt this technology will help them to do so any better.

I guess the way this thing works is, it has an on-board laser range finder that estimates the distance and then makes any windage calculations for that distance based on the ammo you are using.

Once you tag the target (obviously with a tracking laser), it tracks that tag up to 10 MPH of movement and once your cross hairs are on that tag it signals you to take the shot.

Where the tracking point system differs, even if you pull the trigger, it will not fire until the cross hairs are lined up with the tag. If you are holding the trigger and move the rifle to the tag, as soon as it lines up with the tag the rifle discharges. This 2020 system does not go quite that far.

I can see the potential with this technology, especially for military snipers tracking a specific target. But this 2020 system lacks some key features that would appeal to serious shooters that dont need this technology to make such a simple shot.

$5575 will buy a lot of practice and you wont need to lug this beast through the woods in case you need to make a 500 yard shot.

I really do not think Remington put a lot of thought into a product that otherwise would have been great if it had a longer range and the ability to program your handloads in.

If I am going to blow that kind of money of some trick scope, I'd be more inclined to spend it on a thermal unit.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

any windage calculations

you mean elevation right? I am pretty sure even the tracking point doesn't take care of wind (along the bullet flight path) - since there aren't any civilian hand held laser wind readers yet available - though i hear they are coming for military folks.

I am guessing it could account for movers if it can track the rate of movement (ie speed) and calculate the hold off for the speed based on the distance. add in a variable in wind speed - and I am guessing you will be getting misses just like anyone else - since it can't account for wind averaged over the length of the range between the rifle and target...

If indeed it can read the wind along the flight path - then I think its pretty hot stuff. That technology however should be much more expensive - and ideally for a longer range then 500 yards.

 

[RHunter]

The article said it allowed you to manually input a variable for wind. I have not seen one or used one, simply discussing the information Remington put out and what was discussed in the American Rifleman article.

 

[oldfatguy]

For what the 2020 costs you could buy a Terrapin and top tier scope. The dependence on the proprietary battery could be a problem.

OFG

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

yeah, I saw that as well (at least in reference to tracking point) - still, that doesn't get you much more than a good ballistics calculator, but costs a lot more.

I just think with the features it has (and limits) its not a good value.

Essentially the tracking point scope adds the ability to handle movers over something like the G7 BR2 rangefinder / ballistics calculator - which has environmental data and ballistics calculator. Without have an accurate measure of the wind over the flight path, I just don't see the point (pun intended) for the huge extra cost, as the wind over 1200 yards (max range of the tracking point) is going to vary from what you can measure locally - so the one variable which is the least deterministic (and hence one most responsible for misses) - isn't taken care of. So, you pay a lot of money for essentially a single feature (the movers) and you still are possibly missing because you can't determine the wind.

Not to mention all of the other negatives like not being able to use your own load data, your own rifle etc.

If there was a unit that had all the features of the Tracking point, but included the ability to import your own cartridges, use it on your own rifle and was at a price point of the 2020, with a range comparable with the Terrapin, that might be worth it.


also [MENTION=89931]RHunter[/MENTION] - didn't mean to be at all disrespectful - I am just discussing this as well hope you didn't take any offense - as I haven't seen one yet either - though I am sure they are going to be all over shot show...

 

[RHunter]

also @RHunter - didn't mean to be at all disrespectful - I am just discussing this as well hope you didn't take any offense - as I haven't seen one yet either - though I am sure they are going to be all over shot show...

None taken. I agree with everything you stated. I also would never enter local wind into anything like this anyway, I like to look down range and see what the grass and trees are doing and do some empirical guesstimation and enter that.

If there was a unit that had all the features of the Tracking point, but included the ability to import your own cartridges, use it on your own rifle and was at a price point of the 2020, with a range comparable with the Terrapin, that might be worth it.

Exactly--

I am sure the technology is there to do all of what you mentioned and they could package it with a bolt designed to fire those electric primers Remington makes and leave the rest up to me, I think we are just going to have to suffer through a bunch of shit versions and stupid prices before they finally get the features advanced shooters want and deliver them at a reasonable price. I'd buy one then for sure.. Not for target shooting but it sure would be fun using it for hog control at 1200 yards with a 338 LM.

Yep, that would be a very sinister toy and worth 6K

 

[CanPopper]

I was invited onto the focus group for this scope and I got to play with it at the NRA Convention in Houston. I agree that for us here, shooting to 500 is no big deal. What it is really geared towards would be higher end hunters making shots in rougher terrain.

Most hunters only take game out to 200 yards, with this scope, they can go to 500 yards humanely. And when they are shooting up or down hill in windy conditions, this scope can really benefit them even more.

I agree it is rather fugly but think about what you get. You get a scope, you get an electronic rangefinder, you have wifi ability to your tablet/iphone where you can record your shot for review later, you get the altimeter and barometer, cant device, built in electronic shooting game, and you get the angle meter (though most laser range finders have that) all in one integrated package. If you were to carry each device with their associated batteries together, you would be carrying quite a bit of gear.

I was bugging them about being enter my own load and they said they could add that ability through a later software/firmware upgrade.

 

[clmayfield]

not sure the technology is capable of the distances long range shooters would want it for. Then, if your under 500 yards, I don't really see much of a need for it when fairly basic marksmanship skills can get decent groups?

Bingo! 500 is really intermediate range where wind makes a bit of difference, but is not the deciding factor. Further, you are limited to their loads and their barrels. At least $5,000 is obtainable, but given the limitations, there is not a market here. There are a lot of possibilities with this technology, though. I just hope that there are enough douchebag hunters with big dollars plunking their money down for a scope that makes their 500 yard shot to finance the development of a more feature-rich less costly solution.

 

[RHunter]

I don't have a problem with how it looks, some thermal scopes are just as ugly, if it gets the job done that is what matters.

I have lived most of my life in Colorado and hunted extremely rough terrain until I decided I wanted 80 degree days in January.

I disagree with the idea someone will use this in extreme situations. One of the biggest concerns when hunting in rugged country is the ability to get the animal out once you have shot it. If you are not on horseback or can get an ATV into the area, you are not going to kill something you have to carry out on your back, especially an elk. This is a flat land scope and may be good with antelope, not rough terrain with a lot of trees.

A good range finding reticle for me took care of the need to carry anything extra to make a shot.. plus we did not have laser range finders anyway at the time so... No big loss. I carried water, poncho, heavy wool sweater, small first aid pouch, and 2 MRE's. The lighter the better when you are humping it at 9500 feet of altitude.

To spend $5,500 on a product you will use to fire maybe 10 rounds a year with.... 18 for practice and 2 hunting, I don't see Remington selling many of these. All Remington had to do to make a more viable product at a minimum was add the ability to add hand loads and increase the range.

I don't have access to the same statistics that Remington has about its customers and what would appeal to them but this gizmo lacks a lot of common sense attributes to make it a win of a product. I would venture to say this product will be an epic fail.

It lacks features that appeal to members of the shooting community that have enough money to buy it.