Gunsmithing Remington 700 criterion remage issue

[Mrmauser]

so I’ll start at the beginning, I have a Remington 700 in 300wm. I decided I wanted to rebarrel it with the criterion remage system appealing to the at home Enthusiast without a machine shop. I noticed upon setting head space my extractor wasn’t popping over the case rim so I was having to manually tilt the head space gauges in. I figured it was probably because the gauges are metal and not soft like brass. Well after I set the headspace it still would not pop of the brass case rims. It would work fine if I tilted them in but would not pop over at all. So at this point I figured maybe the extractor is causing the issue let’s upgrade the bolt? So I buy the one piece ptg “drop in bolt with m16 extractor” I also bought the tool to lap the lugs as well. I will say right from the start with the bare action the ptg was stiff after lapping the lugs for maybe 15mins mins and satisfied with the contact patch(using dykum to check). I go to set the head space and it’s impossible. I’ll put the go in run it down till it touch’s back it off a little so I can cycle the action and then check the no go and it will close on it Everytime. It’s impossible for me to set the headspace with the ptg bolt. now I can use my Remington bolt and set the headspace easy it just has issues popping over the case rim with its extractor. I called the company I purchased it from and he was saying the ptg was not a drop in because the m16 extractor doesn’t have the clearence needed to pop over the case rim. After doing some reading I find that most people open the relief in the barrel up to .720-740 for the m16 extractor. Here’s two possible ways to solve my issues
1. Replace the factory Remington riveted extractor and see if that fixes the issues and possible try to return the ptg bolt because it’s not a factory drop in like they say

2. Open up the relief in the barrel to .720-740 for the m16 extractor so I can use the ptg bolt

I’m hesitating because I don’t know if any of those will fully solve any of the issues I was having and I’m just not sure what to do. Even if I get the barrel relief cut larger for the ptg bolt why was I not able to set the headspace with gauges manually tilted in so that they wouldn’t have to pop over the rim?? Why did it all of a sudden have extractor issues with the criterion remage conversion? If anyone has any thoughts they would be greatly appreciated, thank you all??

 

[Headquarterz]

Ok I'm a little confused. Did you try to chamber and extract an empty piece of brass after you set the head space? Or are you saying the extractor wouldn't pop over the headspace gauge rim?

 

[Mrmauser]

It would not pop over the headspace rim with the factory Remington bolt, so I was tilting them under the extractor and setting the headspace like that. Upon setting the headspace and tightening everything down and double checking headspace after it’s all tight. When I go to load a new unfired case the extractor will not pop over the rim and thus make Closing the bolt impossible. I actually just went and put the factory barrel on hand tight to check and it has no problem popping over the rim and extracting.

 

[jimdog708]

I would call who ever you got the barrel from and talk to them. Did you remove the ejector spring and plunger when you were trying to head space on the Remington bolt? Will the PTG bolt fit in the barrel counter bore without the gauge installed?

 

[chrismartin]

As jimdog708 mentioned, remove the ejector spring and plunger.
Also, set the headspace on the go gauge and don't "back it off". Instead, lock the barrel nut down a little and then test with the No-Go.
When setting headspace, I have never backed it off a go gauge and I always remove the ejector (when possible) to keep the gauge from skewing inside the chamber.

 

[Mrmauser]

Both bolts are fully dissembled minus the extractor. I can insert the ptg bolt in the counter bore of the barrel without issue so it doesn’t seem to be to large. I called the company I ordered the set up from but he seemed very impatient with me and suggested I replaced the factory Remington extractor.

 

[Bradu]

The m16 extractor will likely fit in the counter bore without the brass or gauge in there. Once you put a case in the chamber and try closing the bolt there won't be enough room to snap over the case. Had a custom rifle with too small of counter bore and chewed up the first couple pieces of brass when I tried it. If you want to use the ptg bolt them you should be able to have a gunsmith fix that very easily and rather inexpensive.

 

[Mrmauser]

When setting the headspace using the ptg bolt it seems like something is contacting somewhere to early? I’ll run the action with the bolt down closed with the go gage in the bolt and tighten it and then check with no go and it’ll go. Also when I get this far down it very stiff to work the bolt even without anything in it gage case etc

 

[Subwrx300]

When setting the headspace using the ptg bolt it seems like something is contacting somewhere to early? I’ll run the action with the bolt down closed with the go gage in the bolt and tighten it and then check with no go and it’ll go. Also when I get this far down it very stiff to work the bolt even without anything in it gage case etc

When you use a barrel nut system, as you torque down the barrel nut, general, head space will increase slightly. Nut shoulders to action and pushes barrel away from action, taking up any play between the threads.

It's possible that you have a bad gauge but when I installed mine, I ran into similar issue for a minute. The fix is to get barrel to the point where it JUST closes, back of a teeny weeny it's bitsy amount so it won't close, then tighten nut to partial torque. Recheck to see if gauge fits. If it's snug closing, torque to full spec and recheck, if it fits smoothly your done.

If not, loosen nut and back out barrel a tiny amount and repeat above. I would suggest putting small pencil witness marks on barrel, nut and action when very close to assembled. It will give you a few indicators to reference when adjusting barrel in/out.

 

[Subwrx300]

Also it's generally not advisable to torque the action with a go/no-go gauge in place. If they are harder than chamber, they can deform the chamber and/or damage the gauge.

 

[jimdog708]

Do you have any Dykem (lay-out fluid) that you could put on the bolt nose to see where it is making contact? Or do you see any shiny spots on the bolt or barrel.

 

[Mrmauser]

Sorry I haven’t replied for a few days, been working a lot so I haven’t had time to mess with it. I did have some dykum laying around but I wasn’t figuring anything out with it( none of it was rubbing off anywhere). I decided I would send back the ptg bolt to MidwayUSA and then try replacing the extractor on the original Remington bolt. I just don’t know if that will fix the issue since it was extracting fine before hand but here’s to hoping??

 

[Deleted member 10043]

All I do is close the bolt on the go gauge and finish screwing the barrel until it touches and then tighten. You don't need a lot of torque and remove gauge and finish tightening. I don't understand how it worked fine before converting to Remage. Also, you do have the recoil lug on it. Remage barrels don't like actions that have been blue printed. The person to talk to is the guy at NSS. You should be able to see if the 700 extractor is cracked or not.

 

[6brshooter]

Why, exactly, do remage barrels not like trued 700 actions? I ve been around 4 or 5 tried 700, not receiver threads but everything else, that had zero issues.

 

[spife7980]

Why, exactly, do remage barrels not like trued 700 actions? I ve been around 4 or 5 tried 700, not receiver threads but everything else, that had zero issues.

The action threads you mentioned are what he was talking about. Most actual complete "truing" jobs recut the threads to slightly larger thus precluding the usage of a remage barrel.

Just truing up the bolt and action face arent really "trued" because they could (and probably are) out of the true center line but with the rising popularity the partial rue jobs are now more common than before when it was always shouldered on remingtons.

 

[6brshooter]

I still think that if bolt lugs, lug abutments, bolt face, and receiver face is trued it will be better than nothing trued. Having 4 things tried and 1 not is better than having all 5 things misaligned. Assuming good true lug, trued receiver face and trued nut, any minor issue of threads would be reduced.

 

[Mrmauser]

All I do is close the bolt on the go gauge and finish screwing the barrel until it touches and then tighten. You don't need a lot of torque and remove gauge and finish tightening. I don't understand how it worked fine before converting to Remage. Also, you do have the recoil lug on it. Remage barrels don't like actions that have been blue printed. The person to talk to is the guy at NSS. You should be able to see if the 700 extractor is cracked or not.

I talked to him and he was very impatient with me and basically just said yeah try replacing the original extractor.

 

[Frank]

Have you checked the nose of the bolt to make sure it is not hitting the back end of the barrel? You may be hitting the bolt when screwing in the barrel, thus not really tighening up on the go guage. Did not see an answer to question ref having the recoil lug installed.

Frank

 

[Rubicon Precision]

Sounds like a simple case of the bolt nose counterbore being too small in diameter for a magnum bolt face/M16 style extractor.

 

[Mrmauser]

Have you checked the nose of the bolt to make sure it is not hitting the back end of the barrel? You may be hitting the bolt when screwing in the barrel, thus not really tighening up on the go guage. Did not see an answer to question ref having the recoil lug installed.

Frank

Yes I had check that once with the barrel out of the action. I sent back the ptg bolt for a refund anyways. Also yes I did have the recoil lug installed all the times I messed with it.

 

[Mrmauser]

Sounds like a simple case of the bolt nose counterbore being too small in diameter for a magnum bolt face/M16 style extractor.

I’m really not sure I had tried setting the headspace without the extractor installed and it still caused issue. It doesn’t matter now since I sent that bolt back and will put the money to replacing my original extractor which I hope works

 

[Mrmauser]

I just wanna say thanks for all the help thus far. this whole project has really got me down and frustrated because the rifle I’m doing this on was the first rifle I had honed my skill on at shooting longer ranges. so as of now I’ve put it all aside for awhile especially with work being so busy. I hope later on down the road I can figure it out and update this thread for future guidance ??

 

[supercorndogs]

I still think that if bolt lugs, lug abutments, bolt face, and receiver face is trued it will be better than nothing trued. Having 4 things tried and 1 not is better than having all 5 things misaligned. Assuming good true lug, trued receiver face and trued nut, any minor issue of threads would be reduced.

But if the tenon threads aren't straight all those other pieces wont bare the load evenly, no matter how flat they are.

 

[6brshooter]

So ur saying having all those areas of the action crooked/misaligned is better than having them all true? Rem action threads are loose, compared to a good Smith's threads. I dont see loose action threads(maybe .002 off) directing the barrel off center, when the trued nut on a good after market threaded barrel is contacting a trued lug that's contacting a trued receiver face. That flies in the face of what several well known Smith's have told me, now they would all prefer to true threads and fit a shouldered barrel, but a remage trued like that would align up very good in loose factory threads

 

[supercorndogs]

So ur saying having all those areas of the action crooked/misaligned is better than having them all true? Rem action threads are loose, compared to a good Smith's threads. I dont see loose action threads(maybe .002 off) directing the barrel off center, when the trued nut on a good after market threaded barrel is contacting a trued lug that's contacting a trued receiver face. That flies in the face of what several well known Smith's have told me, now they would all prefer to true threads and fit a shouldered barrel, but a remage trued like that would align up very good in loose factory threads

I am talking about the threads into the tube being crooked. Pretty normal for a Remington. The barrel doest not come out of the action straight because the threads don't go into the action straight. Now the flat nut, flat lug, and flat receiver face are all trying to align on different planes. Maybe it is more straight, but its still crooked.

IMO. First thing to worry about is bolt timing and primary extraction on a 700.

 

[6brshooter]

Or just run an origin action, since buying a 700, lug, bolt knob, rail and paying a smith to true it costs what an origin does, lol