Remington 700 Failure to Fire

[Wallaback]

Good day Hide,

I've got an annoying problem with my (previously reliable) Remington 700 SA that I've been struggling to diagnose.

The rifle is built around an old R700 SPS .223 action that I've been putting lots of lipstick on over the years. It has an aftermarket Remage barrel and Timney trigger, and used to live in a KRG Bravo.

More recently, I played a bit of musical chairs with my setups and placed the R700 in an MDT ACC Elite chassis. Ever since I've done that, 80% of my shots have been a sort of delayed and/or failure to fire. I pull the trigger, hear the click of the sear releasing, but can see the firing pin indicator stay extended in the back of the bolt. Sometimes, after a fraction of a second, the firing pin will drop and the action fires. Other times, the firing pin stays back and doesn't actually release until I've either tapped on the bolt or (more scarily) touched the safety (while staying on target of course).

I've taken the bolt apart, and there's no gunk, oil buildup, or other immediately apparent faults with it. I use the exact same amount of torque on the action as I did in the Bravo, using a Torque Screwdriver. The rear action screw does not protrude into the action.

Frustratingly, I have also been unable to reproduce the fault at home or at the range using snap caps or fired brass. The gun seems to function 100% with those. It only happens with loaded, chambered ammo!

Has anyone ever seen anything like this?

Obviously the "easy" answer would be to put it back into the Bravo and hope that the problem goes away again, but the curious side of me would rather try to find the fault and fix it.

 

[DDGKunia]

I had this happen with the TT diamond. Pull the trigger and wait for the bang. Had to replace the trigger. I replaced the trigger and was good as new.

Just for giggles. Remove the action from the chassis and see if it still does it during dry fire.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Good day Hide,

Obviously the "easy" answer would be to put it back into the Bravo and hope that settles it well enough, but the curious side of me would rather try to find the fault and fix it.

No, the "easy" answer is to get it to a competent Gunsmith ASAP so he can check the trigger, the headspace and the firing pin protrusion and fix or replace anything that is out of tolerance.

These kinds of things don't just magically "heal" themselves.

 

[FuhQ]

I'd take the gun to a highly qualified gunsmith. Triggers are nothing to be messed with, if you don't know what you are doing. Things can get dangerous really quick.

 

[spife7980]

I’ve only ever had issues with hangfires on small primers in light loads of magnum powder. I doubt a 223 has that ignition problem, even if it is cold temps which can exacerbate. Maybe clean the bolts insides incase you have grease that gums up solid in the cold blocking the pin from going forward.
Do you still have the old stock? Putting it back in the bravo could help trouble shoot. I’d be skeptical that the elites off enough to torque the action into binding the ignition but you never know.

But based on the indicator staying out of the bolt shroud I’d lean towards trigger issues impinging on the firing pin.

 

[ShtrRdy]

In your description of the firing pin remaining back when you pull the trigger, if it's not moving at all I'd think it is due to the trigger.

When you disassembled the bolt did you remove the firing pin from the cocking piece and shroud? If so, did you try running the firing pin into the bolt body feeling for any drag or hang-up?

 

[Wallaback]

In your description of the firing pin remaining back when you pull the trigger, if it's not moving at all I'd think it is due to the trigger.

When you disassembled the bolt did you remove the firing pin from the cocking piece and shroud? If so, did you try running the firing pin into the bolt body feeling for any drag or hang-up?

I did, and there was no drag or hang-up whatsoever. Again, the part that perplexes me the most is that the problem is completely unreproducible without an actual live round chambered. Empty chamber, fired casings, snap caps all seem to 'fire' without delay. It's only when I chamber a live round (both reloads and box ammo) that the problem pops up.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I have an experiment idea to try. Seat a bullet long in an empty case so that the bolt does the final seating. Then try the trigger. I'm wondering if the loaded cartridge is putting enough force back into the bolt to where the cocking piece is engaging the top sear in the trigger more.

 

[fdkay]

I did, and there was no drag or hang-up whatsoever. Again, the part that perplexes me the most is that the problem is completely unreproducible without an actual live round chambered. Empty chamber, fired casings, snap caps all seem to 'fire' without delay. It's only when I chamber a live round (both reloads and box ammo) that the problem pops up.

Load a properly sized case with a bullet seated to SAAMI length, no powder, no primer. See if that induces the failure.
Did you put a lot of rounds through this rifle prior to the problem appearing?
Have you tried it after backing off the action screws a bit? (Reducing torgue)

 

[Wallaback]

Alright, the plot thickens.

I put the rifle back into its old KRG Bravo and took it out to the range for a string of fire. Across 20rds, not a single issue, where beforehand a majority of rounds had the problem... This leads me to believe it must be related to the way the action torqued itself into the ACC Elite?

 

[MarshallDodge]

The tolerances are probably so close that like you said, there can be flex issues. I would try skim bedding the action. This would allow for the variation between the stock and action.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Alright, the plot thickens.

I put the rifle back into its old KRG Bravo and took it out to the range for a string of fire. Across 20rds, not a single issue, where beforehand a majority of rounds had the problem... This leads me to believe it must be related to the way the action torqued itself into the ACC Elite?

"must be related to the way the action torqued itself into the ACC Elite?"



I'm not trying to be rude or impolite, but for safety's sake, you really need to take this in to a qualified, competent gunsmith and have them go through it.

 

[fdkay]

I had issues with a shilen trigger on a 700 that I put in a chassis. I ended up replacing the trigger, but I also bedded the action in the chassis. To this day, I'm convinced my problems were the action bending when torqued into the chassis. Just a case of tolerance stacking. I'd either bed it and see if that cures it, or leave it in the bravo.