I am ordering a new bolt from PTG for an old Rem model 721. I am looking for advice/opinions on whether to order a Rem or Sako extractor and why. I am not a smith of any level, and want to order the bolt with the extractor installed. <span style="color: #33CC00"> Well my bolt came in, and it did in fact fit into my rifle. I chambered a snap cap and several different brands of btass--I don't have a no go gauge, but I feel pretty comfortable about firing it. One question I have though is this: The bolt is a one piece and has a thread on bolt knob. I am curious as to what you all would recommend to anchor the knob it place, I turned on as hard as I could with my bare hand and it broke lose pretty easily-- I'm thinking I should do something to make it more solid in place... </span>
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Gunsmithing Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?--Finale
- Thread starter fish30114
- Start date
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
I would stay with the Rem style. You can get the Mini-16 type.
I would stay with the Rem style. You can get the Mini-16 type.
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
Thanks for the intel, I don't know a lot about bolts, so I'm trying to go slow, and get things right.
Thanks for the intel, I don't know a lot about bolts, so I'm trying to go slow, and get things right.
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
Mini M-16 all the way. IMHO it is a much better extractor than the Sako style.
t
Mini M-16 all the way. IMHO it is a much better extractor than the Sako style.
t
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
Mini m16, is a great choice, You may also find that you need to increase your bolt nose clearance from the factory spec.
R
Mini m16, is a great choice, You may also find that you need to increase your bolt nose clearance from the factory spec.
R
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
We have started making one piece replacement bolts for Remington, Howa , Winchester , Savage , Surgeon among others I find that the mini 16 and HS precision extractors are the safest by far although the Remington push feed is also great. The push feed Remington is the next one we are making. I just finished the one piece Winchester and a prototype push feed Remington for a fellow. I think it will be great for varmint rifles. Thanks Dave
We have started making one piece replacement bolts for Remington, Howa , Winchester , Savage , Surgeon among others I find that the mini 16 and HS precision extractors are the safest by far although the Remington push feed is also great. The push feed Remington is the next one we are making. I just finished the one piece Winchester and a prototype push feed Remington for a fellow. I think it will be great for varmint rifles. Thanks Dave
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
Thanks for the feedback guys, they listed the m-16 extractor as an option so I guess I'll be calling them and ordering the bolt that way. They stated that I would need to lap the lugs to 'get the headspace right' -- I assume that is just lapping the lugs? This is a complete rifle so I wasn't wanting to pull the barrel....
Thanks for the feedback guys, they listed the m-16 extractor as an option so I guess I'll be calling them and ordering the bolt that way. They stated that I would need to lap the lugs to 'get the headspace right' -- I assume that is just lapping the lugs? This is a complete rifle so I wasn't wanting to pull the barrel....
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
Someone please speak up if I'm wrong, but I don't think bolts are just a drop in & go item. I say as much, due to the following.
Bolt rail raceways run slightly different in sizes, so sometimes these need a little "tuning" for a proper fit. That, & I can't recall if a 721 has an anti-bind groove. Though I doubt it, but... if it does, then the bolt has to fit this properly as well. Perhaps requiring a slot for it to be cut into the new bolt.
Also, the headspacing will need to be checked, & possibly adjusted, by doing a little machining on the bolt's face, & or possibly the lugs as well. You'll also probably want it trued to the action while you're doing this.
Hope I'm not covering stuff you already know, & have planned for. Just don't want you to have any saddening surprises when your new bolt shows up in the mail.
Someone please speak up if I'm wrong, but I don't think bolts are just a drop in & go item. I say as much, due to the following.
Bolt rail raceways run slightly different in sizes, so sometimes these need a little "tuning" for a proper fit. That, & I can't recall if a 721 has an anti-bind groove. Though I doubt it, but... if it does, then the bolt has to fit this properly as well. Perhaps requiring a slot for it to be cut into the new bolt.
Also, the headspacing will need to be checked, & possibly adjusted, by doing a little machining on the bolt's face, & or possibly the lugs as well. You'll also probably want it trued to the action while you're doing this.
Hope I'm not covering stuff you already know, & have planned for. Just don't want you to have any saddening surprises when your new bolt shows up in the mail.
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
No excess of knowledge here. I do know that there is no anti-bind rail. If it winds up being too much to handle, I do know when to say when. I'm open to any input! If the barrel ends up needing to be pulled I think I'll rebarrel. Was hoping not to but there may be more to this than I planned for.
No excess of knowledge here. I do know that there is no anti-bind rail. If it winds up being too much to handle, I do know when to say when. I'm open to any input! If the barrel ends up needing to be pulled I think I'll rebarrel. Was hoping not to but there may be more to this than I planned for.
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
xp100,
the mini16 and badger extractor cuts are larger than those for a sako and in the same place so how can you say one sucks and weakens the bolt at the lug are but the other is good to go? I have a feeling your really don't know what your talking about.
chuck
xp100,
the mini16 and badger extractor cuts are larger than those for a sako and in the same place so how can you say one sucks and weakens the bolt at the lug are but the other is good to go? I have a feeling your really don't know what your talking about.
chuck
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
These are great bolts but usually require some type of fitting unless you are extremelly lucky. But, it does happen. +1 for the mini-m16 extractor.
Paul
These are great bolts but usually require some type of fitting unless you are extremelly lucky. But, it does happen. +1 for the mini-m16 extractor.
Paul
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
A few comments:
1) Sako extractors are not a problem because of the required mods to the bolt, but rather because they are not pinned securely in place like the "mini" and "regular" M16-style extractors. While I've never seen one come off a bolt, there are plenty of stories floating around from those that have.
2) Unless the bolt is being used with a non-standard case head diameter, I'd be inclined to go with a standard Remington extractor.
3) As far as fitment is concerned, here are a couple of my posts from other threads on this subject:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3735511#Post3735511
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3769216#Post3769216
In short, the bolt itself is probably not a "drop-in", as I found that the lugs themselves will be tight even after taking ~0.005" off the receiver abutments. The bolt handle slot at the rear of the receiver may require some work for the handle to drop freely into the closed position; the good news is that this tight of a fit ensures maximum primary extraction even on a trued receiver. Finally, the bolt may need to be lapped into the raceway depending upon the receiver itself (a standard 0.6995" PTG bolt dropped right into a G-series receiver that I had on the bench, but was a snug fit on a RR-series receiver).
I'm no expert on these, having only worked with a couple of them, but they sure seem like very nice parts and do a nice job of bringing a Remington action very close to a full custom part. Unfortunately, they also bring the total cost pretty close to a full custom. I think I figured that I have nearly $700 (net) into the last receiver that I built with a PT&G bolt (and that's without spending a penny on machine work); another $275 would have put a new Stiller Tac30 action on my bench and saved about 6 hours in labor.
A few comments:
1) Sako extractors are not a problem because of the required mods to the bolt, but rather because they are not pinned securely in place like the "mini" and "regular" M16-style extractors. While I've never seen one come off a bolt, there are plenty of stories floating around from those that have.
2) Unless the bolt is being used with a non-standard case head diameter, I'd be inclined to go with a standard Remington extractor.
3) As far as fitment is concerned, here are a couple of my posts from other threads on this subject:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3735511#Post3735511
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3769216#Post3769216
In short, the bolt itself is probably not a "drop-in", as I found that the lugs themselves will be tight even after taking ~0.005" off the receiver abutments. The bolt handle slot at the rear of the receiver may require some work for the handle to drop freely into the closed position; the good news is that this tight of a fit ensures maximum primary extraction even on a trued receiver. Finally, the bolt may need to be lapped into the raceway depending upon the receiver itself (a standard 0.6995" PTG bolt dropped right into a G-series receiver that I had on the bench, but was a snug fit on a RR-series receiver).
I'm no expert on these, having only worked with a couple of them, but they sure seem like very nice parts and do a nice job of bringing a Remington action very close to a full custom part. Unfortunately, they also bring the total cost pretty close to a full custom. I think I figured that I have nearly $700 (net) into the last receiver that I built with a PT&G bolt (and that's without spending a penny on machine work); another $275 would have put a new Stiller Tac30 action on my bench and saved about 6 hours in labor.
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
Has anyone ever done a test to see which of the two hangs on to the case the best? I've always used Sako's but it's not the most efficent transfer of spring force. The grip on the case has always seemed extrememly light to me, but they do work.
Has anyone ever done a test to see which of the two hangs on to the case the best? I've always used Sako's but it's not the most efficent transfer of spring force. The grip on the case has always seemed extrememly light to me, but they do work.
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">xp100,
the mini16 and badger extractor cuts are larger than those for a sako and in the same place so how can you say one sucks and weakens the bolt at the lug are but the other is good to go?chuck </div></div>
I don't like to cut any Rem bolt but if i had to it would be for the mini 16.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">xp100,
the mini16 and badger extractor cuts are larger than those for a sako and in the same place so how can you say one sucks and weakens the bolt at the lug are but the other is good to go?chuck </div></div>
I don't like to cut any Rem bolt but if i had to it would be for the mini 16.
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
with all due respect XP, you gave flawed reasoning because you didn't know what you were talking about and potentially swayed someone one way or the other concerning the subject. stick with what you know when other peoples decisions and money are concerned!
chuck
with all due respect XP, you gave flawed reasoning because you didn't know what you were talking about and potentially swayed someone one way or the other concerning the subject. stick with what you know when other peoples decisions and money are concerned!
chuck
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
When ordering a Kiff bolt with an extractor other than the Rem unit do they relocate the ejector so as to help prevent the ejected case from comming out so high it hits the windage turret and potentially drops into the action?
I had a mini M-16 extractor installed on a factory rem bolt and the ejection angle bugged the shit out of me
When ordering a Kiff bolt with an extractor other than the Rem unit do they relocate the ejector so as to help prevent the ejected case from comming out so high it hits the windage turret and potentially drops into the action?
I had a mini M-16 extractor installed on a factory rem bolt and the ejection angle bugged the shit out of me
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When ordering a Kiff bolt with an extractor other than the Rem unit do they relocate the ejector so as to help prevent the ejected case from comming out so high it hits the windage turret and potentially drops into the action?
I had a mini M-16 extractor installed on a factory rem bolt and the ejection angle bugged the shit out of me </div></div>
That is a very good question.
Paul
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When ordering a Kiff bolt with an extractor other than the Rem unit do they relocate the ejector so as to help prevent the ejected case from comming out so high it hits the windage turret and potentially drops into the action?
I had a mini M-16 extractor installed on a factory rem bolt and the ejection angle bugged the shit out of me </div></div>
That is a very good question.
Paul
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When ordering a Kiff bolt with an extractor other than the Rem unit do they relocate the ejector so as to help prevent the ejected case from comming out so high it hits the windage turret and potentially drops into the action?
<span style="color: #FF0000">I had a mini M-16 extractor installed on a factory rem bolt and the ejection angle bugged the shit out of me</span> </div></div>
What angle was it?, I'm guessing high?
Are these stronger and more durable?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When ordering a Kiff bolt with an extractor other than the Rem unit do they relocate the ejector so as to help prevent the ejected case from comming out so high it hits the windage turret and potentially drops into the action?
<span style="color: #FF0000">I had a mini M-16 extractor installed on a factory rem bolt and the ejection angle bugged the shit out of me</span> </div></div>
What angle was it?, I'm guessing high?
Are these stronger and more durable?
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
If it hits, pull the extractor and nip the top side corner with a file. It'll change the exit angle of the case and life will be good again. Its literally a 5 minute job.
OR just stick with the factory m700 extractor. They work just fine.
If it hits, pull the extractor and nip the top side corner with a file. It'll change the exit angle of the case and life will be good again. Its literally a 5 minute job.
OR just stick with the factory m700 extractor. They work just fine.
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
xp,
again, with all due respect (which is becoming less and less), dave kiff didn't give a reason for not wanting a sako extractor in a Remington bolt though he does know what he is talking about. THE REASON many people feel the sako extractor is inferior to the Remington or m16 types is that its not captive, meaning it isn't being actively held in place by a pin like the m16 or a groove like the factory Remington. there have been instances where the sako was blown free from the bolt body and became a projectile injuring shooters and bystanders. IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BS YOU WERE SPEWING ABOUT IT WEAKENING THE "BOLT LUG AREA" as you claim. please don't mislead people just because you want to be involved in the conversation. how many sako or m16 type extractors have you installed exactly? how many have you even used?
chuck
xp,
again, with all due respect (which is becoming less and less), dave kiff didn't give a reason for not wanting a sako extractor in a Remington bolt though he does know what he is talking about. THE REASON many people feel the sako extractor is inferior to the Remington or m16 types is that its not captive, meaning it isn't being actively held in place by a pin like the m16 or a groove like the factory Remington. there have been instances where the sako was blown free from the bolt body and became a projectile injuring shooters and bystanders. IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BS YOU WERE SPEWING ABOUT IT WEAKENING THE "BOLT LUG AREA" as you claim. please don't mislead people just because you want to be involved in the conversation. how many sako or m16 type extractors have you installed exactly? how many have you even used?
chuck
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">xp,
. there have been instances where the sako was blown free from the bolt body and became a projectile injuring shooters and bystanders.
chuck </div></div>
Looking at a remington reciever i can't see how that piece of steel can come loose and find its way out of a closed bolt without their being an exit would on the reciever.
Has anybody ever seen this happen or have pics of it!
I had one come out of the bolt a few times but i think it as improperly installed.
I honestly havent seen a remington extractor fail
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">xp,
. there have been instances where the sako was blown free from the bolt body and became a projectile injuring shooters and bystanders.
chuck </div></div>
Looking at a remington reciever i can't see how that piece of steel can come loose and find its way out of a closed bolt without their being an exit would on the reciever.
Has anybody ever seen this happen or have pics of it!
I had one come out of the bolt a few times but i think it as improperly installed.
I honestly havent seen a remington extractor fail
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">xp,
. there have been instances where the sako was blown free from the bolt body and became a projectile injuring shooters and bystanders.
chuck </div></div>
Looking at a remington reciever i can't see how that piece of steel can come loose and find its way out of a closed bolt without their being an exit would on the reciever.
Has anybody ever seen this happen or have pics of it!
I had one come out of the bolt a few times but i think it as improperly installed.
I honestly havent seen a remington extractor fail</div></div>
When a bolt that has been converted to the Sako style is in the close position the extractor lines up with the right hand bolt raceway.In the event of a case head failure the extractor can be blown out of the bolt and exit via the right hand bolt raceway. This is far more dangerous if you happen to be a left handed shooter but any time parts of the rifle are flying around its not good.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">xp,
. there have been instances where the sako was blown free from the bolt body and became a projectile injuring shooters and bystanders.
chuck </div></div>
Looking at a remington reciever i can't see how that piece of steel can come loose and find its way out of a closed bolt without their being an exit would on the reciever.
Has anybody ever seen this happen or have pics of it!
I had one come out of the bolt a few times but i think it as improperly installed.
I honestly havent seen a remington extractor fail</div></div>
When a bolt that has been converted to the Sako style is in the close position the extractor lines up with the right hand bolt raceway.In the event of a case head failure the extractor can be blown out of the bolt and exit via the right hand bolt raceway. This is far more dangerous if you happen to be a left handed shooter but any time parts of the rifle are flying around its not good.
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
Thanks for all the feedback folks. I have ordered a bolt with the mini-M-16 extractor from PTG. They said 'most likely' it will fit, 'should fit a stock 721 Remington, chambered for '06 family case' which my rifle is--a 270.
It's gonna be about 6-8 weeks and then we'll see if it fits. If it doesn't I'll be taking it to a smith for a rebarrel and will go from there.
Thanks for all the feedback folks. I have ordered a bolt with the mini-M-16 extractor from PTG. They said 'most likely' it will fit, 'should fit a stock 721 Remington, chambered for '06 family case' which my rifle is--a 270.
It's gonna be about 6-8 weeks and then we'll see if it fits. If it doesn't I'll be taking it to a smith for a rebarrel and will go from there.
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have started making one piece replacement bolts for Remington, Howa , Winchester , Savage , Surgeon among others I find that the mini 16 and HS precision extractors are the safest by far although the Remington push feed is also great. The push feed Remington is the next one we are making. I just finished the one piece Winchester and a prototype push feed Remington for a fellow. I think it will be great for varmint rifles. Thanks Dave </div></div>
Are you talking about a post 64 Winchester type extractor in a coned 700 bolt?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have started making one piece replacement bolts for Remington, Howa , Winchester , Savage , Surgeon among others I find that the mini 16 and HS precision extractors are the safest by far although the Remington push feed is also great. The push feed Remington is the next one we are making. I just finished the one piece Winchester and a prototype push feed Remington for a fellow. I think it will be great for varmint rifles. Thanks Dave </div></div>
Are you talking about a post 64 Winchester type extractor in a coned 700 bolt?
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
Well my bolt came in, and it did in fact fit into my rifle. I chambered a snap cap and several different brands of btass--I don't have a no go gauge, but I feel pretty comfortable about firing it. One question I have though is this: The bolt is a one piece and has a thread on bolt knob. I am curious as to what you all would recommend to anchor the knob it place, I turned on as hard as I could with my bare hand and it broke lose pretty easily-- I'm thinking I should do something to make it more solid in place...
Well my bolt came in, and it did in fact fit into my rifle. I chambered a snap cap and several different brands of btass--I don't have a no go gauge, but I feel pretty comfortable about firing it. One question I have though is this: The bolt is a one piece and has a thread on bolt knob. I am curious as to what you all would recommend to anchor the knob it place, I turned on as hard as I could with my bare hand and it broke lose pretty easily-- I'm thinking I should do something to make it more solid in place...
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
'Why would you want to take it off'
I don't really, would like to just in case in the future, but don't intend to.
Thanks for the input, I'm familiar with Blue& Red Loctite, but not Rockset.
'Why would you want to take it off'
I don't really, would like to just in case in the future, but don't intend to.
Thanks for the input, I'm familiar with Blue& Red Loctite, but not Rockset.
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
Rockset is a semitransparent adhesive similar to super glue. Surefire uses it to secure their muzzle devices. For removal, soak in hot water. For even more permanent applications you could use epoxy.
Rockset is a semitransparent adhesive similar to super glue. Surefire uses it to secure their muzzle devices. For removal, soak in hot water. For even more permanent applications you could use epoxy.
Re: Remington or Sako extractor on new bolt?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hdbiker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rockset is a semitransparent adhesive similar to super glue. Surefire uses it to secure their muzzle devices. For removal, soak in hot water. For even more permanent applications you could use epoxy.</div></div>
Good intel, Thanks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hdbiker1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rockset is a semitransparent adhesive similar to super glue. Surefire uses it to secure their muzzle devices. For removal, soak in hot water. For even more permanent applications you could use epoxy.</div></div>
Good intel, Thanks
