Gunsmithing removing copper fouling questions

p5200

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Minuteman
Jun 23, 2008
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poplar bluff mo.
I have a Savage 10fp .223 which has had around 100 rnds. through it and has been cleaned quite often between rounds in sort of a break in fashion. seems when I soak with Hoppees for a few minutes, the patches come out with still, a light blue tint on them. I have been using a Dewey rod with jag/patches and also, used REM. 40X. mild abrasive bore cleaner. Should I use my nylon brush and do more scrubbing? Any advice is welcomed Thanks!
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Re: removing copper fouling questions

Stop using bore abrassive!
try CR-10 or any of the other copper removers out there and make sure you remove it when you are done. Use Kroil for powder fouling. Once it is clean, STOP. use wipeout and stop wearing out your barrrel with overcleaning.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=179403
then this
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=137203
then this

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=112089
and this
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=461265
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: p5200</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Savage 10fp .223 which has had around 100 rnds. through it and has been cleaned quite often between rounds in sort of a break in fashion. seems when I soak with Hoppees for a few minutes, the patches come out with still, a light blue tint on them. I have been using a Dewey rod with jag/patches and also, used REM. 40X. mild abrasive bore cleaner. Should I use my nylon brush and do more scrubbing? Any advice is welcomed Thanks!
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</div></div>

Are you using a brass jag? If so, the blue could be from that.

Also, is it shooting poorly? If not, stop cleaning it.
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

welcome to the Hide.......it has been said here many times.....in so many words, by so many people, more barrels have been damaged by cleaning or over cleaning, or improper cleaning than anything else......
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

Savage barrels are accurate, but also have a reputation for fouling, at least for the first few hundred rounds. No special break-in is really needed, but products like Final Finish can speed the process. They may also have some bearing on bore life, but I am unsure about that.

If you go long periods between cleanings, more aggressive bore cleaners may have their place, but if you clean after each session, as I do, I find that simply using basic cleaners like Hoppe's #9 or Outer's Foaming Bore Cleaner according to their labelling are quite adequate. The key process is the soaking. When I do use brushes, it's to apply the solvent and get it well distributed within the bore. As a scrubbing agent, I think brushes lead to more harm than good, and really aren't that effective against glazed on fouling.

Bore guides are very important, and they should be matched to the rod diameter, so there's no slop or play that could allow rod friction with the bore and especially with the throat.

Brass rods and cleaning implements look good, but the brass/bronze give false indications of copper fouling when used in conjunction with copper solvents. I use stainless rods and steel or plastic implements, and don't use brushes very much at all any more. When I see copper, it's really copper.

Folks will recommend that cleaning need not be done much or even at all. To each their own. Their point that more barrels are lost to cleaning than fouling is probably a good point. My concern is less with getting the crud out, it's not all that harmful to accuracy, at least for awhile; and more about preventing pitting. Long periods where fouling and atmospheric moisture and oxygen can get to work on the bore interior can damage a bore's finish due to bimetallic corrosion, which is similar to electrolysis in nature. If you're not going to clean, fine, but if the rifle is going to lay around for a long time unused, I'd clean and oil that bore, or at least oil it, to create a barrier between the fouling and atmospheric moisture and oxygen. Better safe than sorry.

Greg
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

....and I'm kinda starting to think, seriously, the bore snake is a good thing, after being very skeptical since first seeing one; looks like a novelty, but now after really thinking about the greater amount of contact with the bore, no rod, no jag, no tips, no rod guide to deal with.....seems to make sense although I'm steal trying to get over my first impression.
My current experiment is to treat the first part of the rope with copper remover, then kroil, or vice-versa, then nothing or for me, Boron Nitride since I shoot bullets coated with bn. I'm kinda thinking the bore snake or a variation of it, though it looks like a gimmick, is a good way to clear a bore. I do not like the copper wires in the rope. I considering a home made version. A rope seems like a good way to burnish or lap a barrel too -- way more contact with the bore than with a patch, depends only on the length of the rope. You'd have to have a leader to thread it. just thoughts.
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

Burnish or lap with cotton? you better rub fast. if you are afraid of the copper bristles than just take them off with pliers or a bench grinder and then clean it in a sock. If you are going with 2 chemicals use 2 different boresnakes.
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

Welcome

Sort of breaking it in didn't hurt.
When I got my 12Ftr last summer I followed the procedure that the NRA mags had in them (65 Shots and a lot of cleaning)
Cleaning a lot between just a few shots, I noticed that it shoots different.
Zero changes after 10 to 15 shots.
If it starts goin south clean it and use those shots to get it dirty again as plinkers.
Shoot every week? Just a dry patch to see what's going on.

It works for us.
Bro just popped a chuck @ 703 and hasn't cleaned for 70 to 80 shots in 6.5x284.
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

Thanks for all of the great advice! and yes I have been using brass jags. so, that might be confusing me causing the light blue color. the patches come out clean other then the light bit of blue. I will try some of the other bore cleaners mentioned also. The only bore guide I could find locally, was a GunSlick universal but, plan to order a Lucas guide with insert to match my Dewey Rod next week. Thanks again folks!
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Re: removing copper fouling questions

Or you could just not worry about it like some of use on here. I've never so much as blown my own breath down the bore of my factory rifle and after some 700 rounds she still holds a solid 3/4 MOA with me shooting her. (she has done better and reminds me how bad I suck just about every time I go shoot) for get about it and shoot man.
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

Well, right now there are 27275 users on the hide so you should get about 28000 different answers. Anyways, here is my method. Two wet patches of Butches bore shine. Set for 10 min. Use brass brush soaked with butches for 10 strokes. 2 dry patches. 1 wet, 1 dry, 1 wet, 2 dry, 1 of Kroil. Done. Of course a good bore guide like the ones Sinclair sells is a must. I did a lot of testing with no brush, nylon brushes, and brass brushes. With a borescope, only the brass brush cleaned the bore quickly. As far as harm goes to my barrel with the brass brush? I use brass brushes with my benchrest guns and they still consistenly shoot under .150" five shot groups.
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RATOUTAHELL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, right now there are 27275 users on the hide so you should get about 28000 different answers. Anyways, here is my method. Two wet patches of Butches bore shine. Set for 10 min. Use brass brush soaked with butches for 10 strokes. 2 dry patches. 1 wet, 1 dry, 1 wet, 2 dry, 1 of Kroil. Done. Of course a good bore guide like the ones Sinclair sells is a must. I did a lot of testing with no brush, nylon brushes, and brass brushes. With a borescope, only the brass brush cleaned the bore quickly. As far as harm goes to my barrel with the brass brush? I use brass brushes with my benchrest guns and they still consistenly shoot under .150" five shot groups. </div></div> Hi, right now I'm using this bore guide since I could get it at a local shop. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=410766 you think the Sinclair would be a better choice? Thanks!
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Re: removing copper fouling questions

That bore guide is a universal guide and is better than nothing but the sinclair bore guides are caliber specific. They are o-ringed to prevent solvents from entering the mag well etc. they also have caliber specific id's to prevent rod deflection. Check out their site:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/prod_detail_list/Centerfire-O-Ring-Guides
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

i dont know if it was mentioned or not but i also utilize a bore light.along with bore guide,and a brass jag.very rarely will i use any kind of a brush.and will never ever pull anything backwards through the bore.lol it is amazing how many methods you will come across.
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

i just use sweets 7.62 on a patch and let it soak in then a few dry patches and repeat untill its dry and clean (usualy twice) then a patch with a few drops of rem oil and a dry patch to follow

i dont even bother with a brush as i usualy only fire 1 > 10 rounds in a session (hunting .233 and my wanna be target .308) so i find a jag and patch is plenty and easier on the bore

for cleaning my rim fires and shot guns (and the centerfire once or twice a year) i find one of the best things to di is strip the rifle and clean it with boiling hot water when uese the process above
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: applevalleyjoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try WIPEOUT Bore Foam or KG12. Stop using brass brushes or brass jags.</div></div>

+10

WipeOut Patch Out (with the Accelerator as a first pass if fouling is heavier) is also a good combo. Personally I found the Foam a little hard to control....needs only the quickest of sprays otherwise you get drowned in it.

Also agree on brushes....I've stopped using brass brushes altogether - occasionally I might use a nylon brush.
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: p5200</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RATOUTAHELL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, right now there are 27275 users on the hide so you should get about 28000 different answers. Anyways, here is my method. Two wet patches of Butches bore shine. Set for 10 min. Use brass brush soaked with butches for 10 strokes. 2 dry patches. 1 wet, 1 dry, 1 wet, 2 dry, 1 of Kroil. Done. Of course a good bore guide like the ones Sinclair sells is a must. I did a lot of testing with no brush, nylon brushes, and brass brushes. With a borescope, only the brass brush cleaned the bore quickly. As far as harm goes to my barrel with the brass brush? I use brass brushes with my benchrest guns and they still consistenly shoot under .150" five shot groups. </div></div> Hi, right now I'm using this bore guide since I could get it at a local shop. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=410766 you think the Sinclair would be a better choice? Thanks!
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I've just swapped all my Sinclairs for Mike Lucas Bore Guides. Check out this link to see the comments from other members on these and a short vid of them in use:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...796#Post1257796

 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

Do an internet search for Ed's Red. You make it yourself for about 12 bucks a gallon (2003 prices). The same search should send you to Friar Frog's website. You can make your own copper cleaner as well. I use both all the time and they work great.
 
Re: removing copper fouling questions

Don't clean all that often! About every 400 to 500 rounds. Get a good bore guide and use it. Don't use an aluminium cleaning rod.

Try Sharp Shoot R Wipe Out foaming bore cleaner. Soak the bore with Wipe Out for 24 hours after shooting. Then clean with a nylon or copper bore brush. After running a brush through the barrel for 3 to 5 minutes. I swab with a clean cotton patch. After that I run a patch through the bore with some Kroil on it.

Done!