I started with some new 300wm brass and with Hornady headspace gauge new brass measured 2.282". After firing one in my rifle, all brass measure 2.293". All the once fired brass still fully fit in the chamber and bolt closes smoothly. I know it may take a couple more firing to fully fit my chamber but minus depriming would you resize a brass that stil fits in your chamber without any effort?
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Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
- Thread starter alpha6164
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Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
If i dont have a neck sizing die, can i use the full size and just size enough to deprime and not touch the shoulders?
If i dont have a neck sizing die, can i use the full size and just size enough to deprime and not touch the shoulders?
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
Yes, just install the fl die per instructions and then back it out 3 full turns. Check the neck diameter before 1st attempt then adjust as necessary. Small increments. You should lube the cases as if you were fl sizing as some of the body will get sized. You don't want to get a case stuck in your die.
Yes, just install the fl die per instructions and then back it out 3 full turns. Check the neck diameter before 1st attempt then adjust as necessary. Small increments. You should lube the cases as if you were fl sizing as some of the body will get sized. You don't want to get a case stuck in your die.
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
I've evolved over the years as I gained true experience.
I went from:
Neck sizing only
to
Neck sizing and bumping shoulder with a die that didn't size the body at all
to
Using a FLS die every time, setting it up properly to set the shoulder back a few thousandths
The reason I am where I am today, is because it is the only dead nuts reliable way to have field-reliable ammo that will absolutely chamber each and every time. I've DNF'd a couple matches on account of stuck rounds, and I've lost points because of ammo that chambers/extracts with difficultly, thus costing precious time. I've also galled my bolt lugs once from the extra drag caused by forcing a "slightly oversize" round into battery.
My best advice is to buy a headspace gage and the appropriate tools for measuring cartridge headspace, setup a FLS die properly, and use it for every resize.
I've evolved over the years as I gained true experience.
I went from:
Neck sizing only
to
Neck sizing and bumping shoulder with a die that didn't size the body at all
to
Using a FLS die every time, setting it up properly to set the shoulder back a few thousandths
The reason I am where I am today, is because it is the only dead nuts reliable way to have field-reliable ammo that will absolutely chamber each and every time. I've DNF'd a couple matches on account of stuck rounds, and I've lost points because of ammo that chambers/extracts with difficultly, thus costing precious time. I've also galled my bolt lugs once from the extra drag caused by forcing a "slightly oversize" round into battery.
My best advice is to buy a headspace gage and the appropriate tools for measuring cartridge headspace, setup a FLS die properly, and use it for every resize.
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
Like Turbo said above, you will be much better off full length sizing every time.
Like Turbo said above, you will be much better off full length sizing every time.
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
I disagree with Turbo. FL sizing lengthens the brass each time. It uses up brass life and prepares you for a separation above the belt. Neck size until you begin to feel a "harder touch" on closing the bolt, then FL or body size to bump the shoulder. You will probably get a lot of different opinions on this. If the bolt closes easily, and you are not worried about a jam while hunting, you know where I stand. JMHO
I disagree with Turbo. FL sizing lengthens the brass each time. It uses up brass life and prepares you for a separation above the belt. Neck size until you begin to feel a "harder touch" on closing the bolt, then FL or body size to bump the shoulder. You will probably get a lot of different opinions on this. If the bolt closes easily, and you are not worried about a jam while hunting, you know where I stand. JMHO
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
Set up your fl die to set the shoulder back .001 to .003 thou and you will get plenty of brass life and your gun will always feed.
Set up your fl die to set the shoulder back .001 to .003 thou and you will get plenty of brass life and your gun will always feed.
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
aloreman...I still disagree. When you full length size your brass you are sizing all the way down the body, and the case lengthens. The brass has to go somewhere. When you neck size only, the case doesn't lengthen measurably. So, WHY should you lengthen the case and trim it back each time when you don't HAVE to do so? If you have to bump the shoulder each time, then do so. If you don't...then WHY do it?
aloreman...I still disagree. When you full length size your brass you are sizing all the way down the body, and the case lengthens. The brass has to go somewhere. When you neck size only, the case doesn't lengthen measurably. So, WHY should you lengthen the case and trim it back each time when you don't HAVE to do so? If you have to bump the shoulder each time, then do so. If you don't...then WHY do it?
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
I FL resize every time, because I want 100% reliability, not 99.95% reliability. Though I do make sure my FL die is setup properly with minimum shoulder bump to chamber smoothly.
I FL resize every time, because I want 100% reliability, not 99.95% reliability. Though I do make sure my FL die is setup properly with minimum shoulder bump to chamber smoothly.
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">aloreman...I still disagree. When you full length size your brass you are sizing all the way down the body, and the case lengthens. The brass has to go somewhere. When you neck size only, the case doesn't lengthen measurably. So, WHY should you lengthen the case and trim it back each time when you don't HAVE to do so? If you have to bump the shoulder each time, then do so. If you don't...then WHY do it? </div></div>
You are, of course, correct that any amount of sizing will cause brass flow.
The cause of CHS's is brass thinning at the web, which is <span style="font-weight: bold">predominantly</span> caused by excessive headspace. The firing pin forces the case forward, there is a pressure rise, case grips the chamber, and the ass end of the case stretches rearward until it contacts, and is supported by the boltface.
In that case, ALL of the stretch, and associated brass thinning, is focused right at the caseweb...in the worst place possible.
While it is true the brass will stretch/thin everywhere, including at the web while FLSing, it is minimal.
Still, assuming you're running well within SAAMI pressure limits, are using quality brass, never loose your brass, never set the shoulder back too far, and routinely anneal casenecks to avoid splits...you are correct in stating that FLSing will wear brass out faster than NS only, and the occasional shoulder setback.
My understanding is benchresters set their neck clearance so precisely that brass springback allows them to reload cartridges with NO sizing at all. I'm not a benchrester though. I am a field rifleman, and my ammo just has to WORK.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">aloreman...I still disagree. When you full length size your brass you are sizing all the way down the body, and the case lengthens. The brass has to go somewhere. When you neck size only, the case doesn't lengthen measurably. So, WHY should you lengthen the case and trim it back each time when you don't HAVE to do so? If you have to bump the shoulder each time, then do so. If you don't...then WHY do it? </div></div>
You are, of course, correct that any amount of sizing will cause brass flow.
The cause of CHS's is brass thinning at the web, which is <span style="font-weight: bold">predominantly</span> caused by excessive headspace. The firing pin forces the case forward, there is a pressure rise, case grips the chamber, and the ass end of the case stretches rearward until it contacts, and is supported by the boltface.
In that case, ALL of the stretch, and associated brass thinning, is focused right at the caseweb...in the worst place possible.
While it is true the brass will stretch/thin everywhere, including at the web while FLSing, it is minimal.
Still, assuming you're running well within SAAMI pressure limits, are using quality brass, never loose your brass, never set the shoulder back too far, and routinely anneal casenecks to avoid splits...you are correct in stating that FLSing will wear brass out faster than NS only, and the occasional shoulder setback.
My understanding is benchresters set their neck clearance so precisely that brass springback allows them to reload cartridges with NO sizing at all. I'm not a benchrester though. I am a field rifleman, and my ammo just has to WORK.
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My best advice is to buy a headspace gage and the appropriate tools for measuring cartridge headspace, setup a FLS die properly, and use it for every resize. </div></div>
What tool does one use to measure the headspace for a specific rifle chamber? I already have the Hornady headspace gages for measuring the cartidge.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My best advice is to buy a headspace gage and the appropriate tools for measuring cartridge headspace, setup a FLS die properly, and use it for every resize. </div></div>
What tool does one use to measure the headspace for a specific rifle chamber? I already have the Hornady headspace gages for measuring the cartidge.
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would recommend RCBS Precision MIC
</div></div>
Seconded. This is a must-have tool.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would recommend RCBS Precision MIC
</div></div>
Seconded. This is a must-have tool.
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
So are you guys saying that the Hornady LNL headspace kit with proper bushing for the specific caliber doesn't work for measuring headspace ?
So are you guys saying that the Hornady LNL headspace kit with proper bushing for the specific caliber doesn't work for measuring headspace ?
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So are you guys saying that the Hornady LNL headspace kit with proper bushing for the specific caliber doesn't work for measuring headspace ? </div></div>
Sure it does. Works right nice.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So are you guys saying that the Hornady LNL headspace kit with proper bushing for the specific caliber doesn't work for measuring headspace ? </div></div>
Sure it does. Works right nice.
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just measure headspace from your fired brass.
</div></div>
What about the comment that mentioned firing the brass a few times before sizing? Is it a safe assumption that brass (in my case I use LC brass) expands to the full chamber dimensions on first firing?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just measure headspace from your fired brass.
</div></div>
What about the comment that mentioned firing the brass a few times before sizing? Is it a safe assumption that brass (in my case I use LC brass) expands to the full chamber dimensions on first firing?
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
Turbo54,
Spot on. Neck Sizing is a problem, looking for a place to happen. Give it a chance, and it'll find that place, per Murphy's Law.
To the OP, use the gages so you don't resize any more than you need to, but run the F/L sizing each and every time. It <span style="text-decoration: underline">will</span> save you some trouble, at <span style="text-decoration: underline">some</span> point down the road, guaranteed.
Turbo54,
Spot on. Neck Sizing is a problem, looking for a place to happen. Give it a chance, and it'll find that place, per Murphy's Law.
To the OP, use the gages so you don't resize any more than you need to, but run the F/L sizing each and every time. It <span style="text-decoration: underline">will</span> save you some trouble, at <span style="text-decoration: underline">some</span> point down the road, guaranteed.
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
To the point of brass matching chamber size from a first firing. It gets pretty close. But, if you fire it more than once, with neck sizing only in between, you get a better match to the chamber.
If you go to buy custom dies from Neil Jones, he'll ask for brass that has been fired 3 times, neck sized only in between firings. Alan Warner wants similar brass for his dies.
For setting up my sizing dies, I'll make an adjustment from the first firing, but will potentially tweak it if subsequent firings show me they need to be adjusted.
Jeffvn
To the point of brass matching chamber size from a first firing. It gets pretty close. But, if you fire it more than once, with neck sizing only in between, you get a better match to the chamber.
If you go to buy custom dies from Neil Jones, he'll ask for brass that has been fired 3 times, neck sized only in between firings. Alan Warner wants similar brass for his dies.
For setting up my sizing dies, I'll make an adjustment from the first firing, but will potentially tweak it if subsequent firings show me they need to be adjusted.
Jeffvn
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
I second the opinion on the Prcision mic for measuring fired cases. I get the same exact reading every time when I use a precision mic. When I check a piece of brass with any of the tools designed to attach to a caliper I get a different reading each and every time.
I second the opinion on the Prcision mic for measuring fired cases. I get the same exact reading every time when I use a precision mic. When I check a piece of brass with any of the tools designed to attach to a caliper I get a different reading each and every time.
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
The key here is to get brass to fit YOUR chamber.....with factory chambers.... it`s a crap shoot.
If you don`t make dies yourself.....and with an aftermarket barrel/chamber..send 3 once fired cases to most die mfg. companies and they send you a set of dies ground specific to your chamber.
With a factory barrel...most std. dies should work.Spending alot of time and money on a so-so barrel don`t make sense....
OMHO
bill larson
The key here is to get brass to fit YOUR chamber.....with factory chambers.... it`s a crap shoot.
If you don`t make dies yourself.....and with an aftermarket barrel/chamber..send 3 once fired cases to most die mfg. companies and they send you a set of dies ground specific to your chamber.
With a factory barrel...most std. dies should work.Spending alot of time and money on a so-so barrel don`t make sense....
OMHO
bill larson
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sentry1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just measure headspace from your fired brass.
</div></div>
What about the comment that mentioned firing the brass a few times before sizing? Is it a safe assumption that brass (in my case I use LC brass) expands to the full chamber dimensions on first firing? </div></div>
Yes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sentry1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just measure headspace from your fired brass.
</div></div>
What about the comment that mentioned firing the brass a few times before sizing? Is it a safe assumption that brass (in my case I use LC brass) expands to the full chamber dimensions on first firing? </div></div>
Yes
Re: Resize brass that still fits in chamber ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sentry1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just measure headspace from your fired brass.
</div></div>
What about the comment that mentioned firing the brass a few times before sizing? Is it a safe assumption that brass (in my case I use LC brass) expands to the full chamber dimensions on first firing? </div></div>
Yes </div></div>
As previously mentioned, you will get many different opinions.
With Lapua Palma brass, it took me 3 firings before the brass was fully fireformed to "my" chamber. With LC brass, I have no idea, but Hornady Match brass was fireformed after the first firing. Different brands, different results.
While I tend to agree with the statement about any tool attached to a caliper giving different measurements each time, they (Hornady/Stoney Point) work very well in my applications.
I FL size for everything (except BPCR's, but that is a different breed of cat entirely), but my shooting partner prefers to NS until be has to FL. Guess what, they both work well.....
As I have stated many times, ain't handloading fun!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sentry1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Golfy Sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just measure headspace from your fired brass.
</div></div>
What about the comment that mentioned firing the brass a few times before sizing? Is it a safe assumption that brass (in my case I use LC brass) expands to the full chamber dimensions on first firing? </div></div>
Yes </div></div>
As previously mentioned, you will get many different opinions.
With Lapua Palma brass, it took me 3 firings before the brass was fully fireformed to "my" chamber. With LC brass, I have no idea, but Hornady Match brass was fireformed after the first firing. Different brands, different results.
While I tend to agree with the statement about any tool attached to a caliper giving different measurements each time, they (Hornady/Stoney Point) work very well in my applications.
I FL size for everything (except BPCR's, but that is a different breed of cat entirely), but my shooting partner prefers to NS until be has to FL. Guess what, they both work well.....
As I have stated many times, ain't handloading fun!
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