Reticle Cant

[LH_Gina]

Alright, I can't figure out where else this question should be asked so here goes. I'm looking for insight since every thing the google machine tells me doesn't answer or resolve my issue.

Over the last six months or so, I've noticed that my reticle appears to be canted to the left. I discovered this when I kept needing double the wind holds others were using and double what I thought I actually needed at distance. I'd check my zero and it was on. I thought perhaps my scope wasn't level, so I checked it. And checked it again. I checked it with multiple bubble levels and a plumb bob. I sent a scope back to the manufacturer in the rings and was told that I'm basically a leveling genius and have a super level scope (maybe not those exact words but still). So why does the reticle appear STILL appear canted to the left? To be clear, this is multiple barreled actions, with multiple scopes and rings/mounts. They all look canted to my dumbass eyeball.

I wear glasses and/or contacts, so I've tried shooting without either. The reticle appears more correct then, but then I can't get the reticle to focus for shit because I'm blind as a bat. Astigmatism maybe? Anyone have this issue themselves? If so, what did you do or find to resolve it?

 

[Lowlight]

They will check it using the flat on the bottom of the scope. So begin there, put the flat of the scope on a table and look at the reticle using a simple plumb line. They usually call 2% or less within spec, even though 2% is noticeable.

That would be my first check. Then if it passes, here you would use a scope tube mounted bubble level to align the bubble to the reticle.

This way, when checking it on the rifle, while you are behind it shooting, you can see if it is something you might be doing.

We recently had a reticle turn in in the tube on a scope, this can happen over time due to recoil

 

[jg6.5]

I used to wear glasses, and friends that I shoot with don't. I would swear up and down that their reticles were cocked off to one side, and they would swear that mine was cocked off to the other. Without any further objective analysis than that, we were all convinced that it had something to do with me wearing glasses.

I sacked up and paid for LASIK earlier this year, and now my own reticle looks crooked - just been to lazy to fix it yet.

 

[seansmd]

If you think your eyes or glasses are contributing. You can elimante the eye from the equation you can flash a light backwards through scope and project on a wall with a plumb line.

 

[Lowlight]

Here the reticle turned in the scope, one minute everything was good to go, the next,

 

[LH_Gina]

Here the reticle turned in the scope, one minute everything was good to go, the next,

View attachment 7175078

Mine is the exact opposite direction and not quite as much cant. Bubble level on the scope, action, and using a plumb bob all say the scope is level. It's making me a little crazy.

 

[Lowlight]

do you have a cold, maybe your ears need a flushing

sinus problems, a head cold can mess with our internal levels

 

[LH_Gina]

do you have a cold, maybe your ears need a flushing

sinus problems, a head cold can mess with our internal levels

Nonstop allergies that I'm on about 5 medications for. I actually wondered if that could have an effect.

 

[jg6.5]

Mine is the exact opposite direction and not quite as much cant. Bubble level on the scope, action, and using a plumb bob all say the scope is level. It's making me a little crazy.

Ask yourself this - which is more important? The reticle "looking" plumb, or the reticle actually being plumb? If all of your indicators are saying the scope is level and plumb, just run with it - that's what more important. Along with the gun itself being level when firing too.

 

[Lowlight]

I would try a head flush,

Sinuses and ears with some warm water and see if it clears it up

the meds or the allergies can be effected

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’m assuming you have (or had) a bubble level that is plumb to the reticle and the reticle is plumb to a plumb line?

If so, when you notice is appears canted to the left, is the bubble still showing everything is good?

Basically I’m asking a dumb question, that you‘ve eliminated that you haven’t developed a cant in your natural positioning?

If so, I’m guessing frank nailed it. Your inner ear be fucked up.

(also, insert jokes about being a vortex and about the poor SOB’s that asked for a wind call after you)

 

[hlee]

I've found that if my head is not vertical when I mount the rifle, the crosshair can appear canted, even though it is true to a plumb bob. What you are describing could be a perception issue.

 

[LH_Gina]

I’m assuming you have (or had) a bubble level that is plumb to the reticle and the reticle is plumb to a plumb line?

If so, when you notice is appears canted to the left, is the bubble still showing everything is good?

Basically I’m asking a dumb question, that you‘ve eliminated that you haven’t developed a cant in your natural positioning?

If so, I’m guessing frank nailed it. Your inner ear be fucked up.

(also, insert jokes about being a vortex and about the poor SOB’s that asked for a wind call after you)

The bubble level on top of the scope, the one on the scope, the one on the rail and the one on the stock all line up with the plumb bob. When I get behind the rifle, I've lined them all up and the vertical looks canted towards the left even when all the levels say it's gtg. I think I've eliminated just about every thing I possibly can at this point (Tim's fancy NF scopes look canted to me too LOL). Considering how bad my allergies have been this year, I'm going to look into Frank's suggestion being the reason. I don't think it's possible to take any more OTC allergy medications and not overdose. I was leaning towards it being related to my vision, so I have an appt with my eye doc on Monday to rule that out.

 

[Dthomas3523]

The bubble level on top of the scope, the one on the scope, the one on the rail and the one on the stock all line up with the plumb bob. When I get behind the rifle, I've lined them all up and the vertical looks canted towards the left even when all the levels say it's gtg. I think I've eliminated just about every thing I possibly can at this point (Tim's fancy NF scopes look canted to me too LOL). Considering how bad my allergies have been this year, I'm going to look into Frank's suggestion being the reason. I don't think it's possible to take any more OTC allergy medications and not overdose. I was leaning towards it being related to my vision, so I have an appt with my eye doc on Monday to rule that out.

Sounds like it has to be eyes or inner ear/allergies.

But I’d imagine since it’s been 6mo, your allergies and inner ear would have cleared up at some point for things to look not fubar.

Any dizziness or balance issues non shooting related lately?

 

[hlee]

4 levels and a plumb bob all say the reticle is level?

Or

4 levels and the plumb bob agree that something is level, but the reticle appears canted with respect to the plumb bob and/or the levels?

 

[SD Carpenter]

I've found that if my head is not vertical when I mount the rifle, the crosshair can appear canted, even though it is true to a plumb bob. What you are describing could be a perception issue.

I found because I have such a high cheek weld it's hard for me to get vertical behind the scope. Right now I'm still trying to find stocks/chassis's that have a side to side adjustable cheek piece so I can help scoot my eye more over

 

[LH_Gina]

Sounds like it has to be eyes or inner ear/allergies.

But I’d imagine since it’s been 6mo, your allergies and inner ear would have cleared up at some point for things to look not fubar.

Any dizziness or balance issues non shooting related lately?

Not that I've noticed but I'm clumsy by nature. LOL. My seasonal allergies are year long so I take allergy meds every single day. Between AZ always having something in bloom and then traveling to places with different stuff blooming and blowing dust everywhere I don't get a break.

 

[LH_Gina]

4 levels and a plumb bob all say the reticle is level?

Or

4 levels and the plumb bob agree that something is level, but the reticle appears canted with respect to the plumb bob and/or the levels?

All those levels + plumb bob + two other people say it's level. My eyeball says it's not.

 

[hlee]

All those levels + plumb bob + two other people say it's level. My eyeball says it's not.

Well, it's 7 against 1.

 

[Lowlight]

we can tie you to a rock, throw you in water and see if you float,

Lefties are known witches and were burned at the stake in ancient times

I think you are possessed by a demon or even the Devil himself - very scary stuff.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Too easy

 

[AIAW]

Here the reticle turned in the scope, one minute everything was good to go, the next,

View attachment 7175078

Damn. Looks like a Kahles perhaps, based on the reticle?

 

[Rocketmandb]

I found because I have such a high cheek weld it's hard for me to get vertical behind the scope. Right now I'm still trying to find stocks/chassis's that have a side to side adjustable cheek piece so I can help scoot my eye more over

The KMW Loggerhead cheek riser hardware allows side to side adjustment. It is this feature that has me sold on it - and Manners stocks, which come with the Loggerhead.

Also, I hear about so many people who simply level the scope with the rifle by putting a bubble level on the scope and another in the action of the rifle - DO NOT DO THIS. Even top quality scopes can make their way to you with the reticle not being leveled to the scope body. The proper way to level a scope is to do so by aligning the reticle against a lubber line.

What I do when setting up a new scope:

What you need:

- I have a plate that attaches to a tripod and has a pic rail mounted on it - $15 camera plate on Amazon
- An anti-cant level for your scope
- Rings (of course)
- A weight
- A brightly colored rope or bungee
- A tripod

1) Put the rings on the scope, slightly tightened

2) Put the anti-cant level on the scope, loose - not tightened

3) Hang the weight from a tree limb, ladder, whatever with the brightly colored rope or bungee. Do so at a distance equal to or greater than the scope's minimum parallax.

4) Put the rings/scope onto the plate/pic rail and put it on the tripod.

5) Point the scope at the rope, and align the vertical line of the reticle with the rope

6) Adjust the anti-cant bubble level until it is level - make sure the scope reticle is still aligned with the rope

7) Once aligned, tighten the bubble level.

Now the anti-cant bubble level is aligned with the vertical line of the reticle. This is the critical thing to do.

8) Go back to your gun vise, mount the scope onto your rifle, loosen the rings

9) Put a level into your action and twist your rifle until it is level

10) Twist the scope in the rings until the scope's anti-cant level is level/aligned with the level in the rifle's action


Here is a pic of my plate:

 

[LH_Gina]

The KMW Loggerhead cheek riser hardware allows side to side adjustment. It is this feature that has me sold on it - and Manners stocks, which come with the Loggerhead.

Also, I hear about so many people who simply level the scope with the rifle by putting a bubble level on the scope and another in the action of the rifle - DO NOT DO THIS. Even top quality scopes can make their way to you with the reticle not being leveled to the scope body. The proper way to level a scope is to do so by aligning the reticle against a lubber line.

What I do when setting up a new scope:

What you need:

- I have a plate that attaches to a tripod and has a pic rail mounted on it - $15 camera plate on Amazon
- An anti-cant level for your scope
- Rings (of course)
- A weight
- A brightly colored rope or bungee
- A tripod

1) Put the rings on the scope, slightly tightened

2) Put the anti-cant level on the scope, loose - not tightened

3) Hang the weight from a tree limb, ladder, whatever with the brightly colored rope or bungee. Do so at a distance equal to or greater than the scope's minimum parallax.

4) Put the rings/scope onto the plate/pic rail and put it on the tripod.

5) Point the scope at the rope, and align the vertical line of the reticle with the rope

6) Adjust the anti-cant bubble level until it is level - make sure the scope reticle is still aligned with the rope

7) Once aligned, tighten the bubble level.

Now the anti-cant bubble level is aligned with the vertical line of the reticle. This is the critical thing to do.

8) Go back to your gun vise, mount the scope onto your rifle, loosen the rings

9) Put a level into your action and twist your rifle until it is level

10) Twist the scope in the rings until the scope's anti-cant level is level/aligned with the level in the rifle's action


Here is a pic of my plate:

View attachment 7175741

Believe it or not, I do actually know how to level a scope. My issue isn't an incorrectly leveled optic. It's how my brain is perceiving the reticle. I've been leveling my own scopes for the last 10 years with zero problems. This issue popped up in the last 6-9 months. Doesn't appear to be specific to one scope or scope manufacturer. I'm seeing all reticles this way. I've tried moving cheek pieces left, right, up, & down in case that was causing it. I even sent one scope back in the rings to the manufacturer who told me, and sent pictures, the my scope in the rings was extremely level. Can't get more level. If I use a plumb bob/string, I not only see the reticle canted, but if it's lined up with the string, the string would also be canted. That's what I'm trying to find the answer for. Why is my brain translating the information with a cant.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Why is my brain translating the information with a cant.

Is your head tilted when you're at rest?

EDIT: The reason I ask is that a friend of mine was having neck pain and after going to a few different doctors, he was diagnosed with something called BVD, which had something to do with his eyes not being in sync with each other and it caused him to perceive things at an angle. As a result, he would tilt his head, which caused chronic neck pain.

 

[_Raining]

I wear glasses and have used a plumb line to level my scope. It also looks canted to the left for me. I just kind of accepted it and use the level on my scope to make sure I am level.

 

[bunsen27]

Not that I've noticed but I'm clumsy by nature. LOL. My seasonal allergies are year long so I take allergy meds every single day. Between AZ always having something in bloom and then traveling to places with different stuff blooming and blowing dust everywhere I don't get a break.

On the side note of the sinus issues have you tried a NeilMed Sinuflo yet? It's much better than a Netty Pot when you are already congested. I have horrible dust allergies and work in a very dusty environment. Doing a daily sinus flush has been a game changer for me. I rarely if every take meds anymore. The prefilled rinse is ok, but I find the saline packets plus distilled water is better. The saline solution should be heated to about 85F-90F. Too hot is REALLY going to hurt, while too cold will just feel very weird. If you're as bad as it sounds you may want to start with two a day (morning and evening). Yes, it will take a little while to get used to but stick with it and you should see some improvement within a week.

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[Olen_4504]

what happens if you put your face on the other side of the gun and look through the scope with the other eye?

just curious.

i know for me. with a reticle level to a plumb line. it still appears slightly slightly canted to the left for me. but if i put my face on the other side of the gun and look with my other eye, it appears slightly canted the other way.

 

[Sheldon N]

Over the last six months or so, I've noticed that my reticle appears to be canted to the left.

I'd suggest watching a bit more Fox News, maybe listen to some Rush Limbaugh too.


In all seriousness though, hope you get the allergy meds sorted out. It does sound like those are doing a number on you.

 

[PracticalTactical]

Check out that NeliMed nasal rinse.
Its a sea salt and baking soda powder that you can actually make for yourself, or just buy the stuff.

Home Made recipe...

I think you are supposed to use non iodized sea salt, but Google it.

Mix 3 heaping teaspoons of salt with 1 rounded teaspoon of baking soda and store in a small Ziplock bag.

Add 1 teaspoon of the mixture to 8 ounces (1 cup) of lukewarm distilled or boiled water.

Use less to make a less concentrated salt solution if burning or stinging is experienced.

I had to make this rinse based on ENT doctors suggestion after nasal surgery a few years back.

You will cough and gag a bit, but it does things clear up for a while.

 

[LH_Gina]

Is your head tilted when you're at rest?

EDIT: The reason I ask is that a friend of mine was having neck pain and after going to a few different doctors, he was diagnosed with something called BVD, which had something to do with his eyes not being in sync with each other and it caused him to perceive things at an angle. As a result, he would tilt his head, which caused chronic neck pain.

Doesn't look or feel like I'm canting. I've tried adjusting cheek pieces though and it didn't make a difference.

 

[LH_Gina]

what happens if you put your face on the other side of the gun and look through the scope with the other eye?

just curious.

i know for me. with a reticle level to a plumb line. it still appears slightly slightly canted to the left for me. but if i put my face on the other side of the gun and look with my other eye, it appears slightly canted the other way.

Slight cant the opposite direction, but it's not nearly as much. Looking like I'll need a bubble level for a while longer. LOL.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Shit, I have this same problem, and always wrote it off to head position (high cheek bones, in my case) but chronic sinus problems seem to also be a possible cause.

This is the second time you've helped me out with weird eyeball issues, @LH_Gina - I owe you a drink next time I see you.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Maybe you’ve read a few too many comments on social media (or in the SH Bear Pit) and now you have Forest Whitaker eye? Happens to me after a few minutes in there. Usually a stiff drink fixes it. ?

Sorry I don’t have any helpful advice. Wife suffers from allergies as well but she no longer wants to shoot LR or I’d take her to the range and run experiments for ya lol.

 

[LH_Gina]

Finally got in to see my family doc. Referral to an ENT due to my allergies and what she found when she looked at my ears. She said both of my ears have "lots of fluid" and inflammation but no sign of an ear infection. So... thanks @lowlight for being better than WebMD. And thanks for not charging me a copay.

 

[TACC]

The KMW Loggerhead cheek riser hardware allows side to side adjustment. It is this feature that has me sold on it - and Manners stocks, which come with the Loggerhead.

Also, I hear about so many people who simply level the scope with the rifle by putting a bubble level on the scope and another in the action of the rifle - DO NOT DO THIS. Even top quality scopes can make their way to you with the reticle not being leveled to the scope body. The proper way to level a scope is to do so by aligning the reticle against a lubber line.

What I do when setting up a new scope:

What you need:

- I have a plate that attaches to a tripod and has a pic rail mounted on it - $15 camera plate on Amazon
- An anti-cant level for your scope
- Rings (of course)
- A weight
- A brightly colored rope or bungee
- A tripod

1) Put the rings on the scope, slightly tightened

2) Put the anti-cant level on the scope, loose - not tightened

3) Hang the weight from a tree limb, ladder, whatever with the brightly colored rope or bungee. Do so at a distance equal to or greater than the scope's minimum parallax.

4) Put the rings/scope onto the plate/pic rail and put it on the tripod.

5) Point the scope at the rope, and align the vertical line of the reticle with the rope

6) Adjust the anti-cant bubble level until it is level - make sure the scope reticle is still aligned with the rope

7) Once aligned, tighten the bubble level.

Now the anti-cant bubble level is aligned with the vertical line of the reticle. This is the critical thing to do.

8) Go back to your gun vise, mount the scope onto your rifle, loosen the rings

9) Put a level into your action and twist your rifle until it is level

10) Twist the scope in the rings until the scope's anti-cant level is level/aligned with the level in the rifle's action


Here is a pic of my plate:

View attachment 7175741

Great info and experience, thanks

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Late to the party, but a tilted head and progressive lenses will do odd things. A friend of mine swore his front sight was bent because of the distortion of the progressive lens.

 

[Lowlight]

Glad it helped !

in a word nailed it

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I had some of this and it drove me bonkers.

I would set up the rifle and scope to get things plumb, and it would be perfect (but I was using the rest and rear bag).

Later, I'd extend the bipod, lay down and it'd be cockeyed.

It wasn't until I started to dismount the bipod and got to where it was loose on the rifle, and noticed it could be retightened into different positions side to side that the light bulb lit up. Each position, the reticle looked various kinds of flukey.

So now, getting the rifle/reticle plumb is only the first step. Getting the bipod plumb to the reticle is the second one. Keeping it there is the third one.

Greg

 

[shanelessthanzero]

I have the same problem. When I wear my contacts or no contacts my reticle appears normal and true but when I put my glasses on it appears canted to the left. Top to the left bottom to the right. It's only when I'm wearing glasses and all scoped do it. So I've chalked it up to the glasses.

 

[Crosswind]

I have the same problem. When I wear my contacts or no contacts my reticle appears normal and true but when I put my glasses on it appears canted to the left. Top to the left bottom to the right. It's only when I'm wearing glasses and all scoped do it. So I've chalked it up to the glasses.

Me too, Found this haven't used it yet. Maybe it would help ?

 

[Baron23]

Wow, been a bit over a year.... @LH_Gina any joy on root cause and corrective action? Still the same issue.

I have a mild eye glass prescription and found that I could compensate with my occular adjustment so as to be able to shoot without wearing them. They did seem to distort things just a bit.

And, I have a friend who is older than I (and I'm no spring chicken) who is having eye problems that bend the stadia of his reticle.

And I saw where above @lowlight referenced that many (most?) manf accept a 2% diff between reticle and scope body. That's 7 degrees and I would think that would be VERY noticeable.

Give us some feedback, Gina. Did you see the eye doc, any changes in what's happening?

 

[LH_Gina]

@Baron23 in my case, I believe it was being caused by dehydration exacerbated by a medication I was prescribed. I stopped taking the medication, dehydration lessened, and about two months later I noticed I wasn't having issues with reticle cant anymore. I'm still using the SendIt level though because I don't trust myself. LOL.

Prior to figuring out the missing puzzle piece, I'd gone to the family doc, the endocrinologist, two eye docs, and an ENT. All said my vision was fine. My family doc thought it might've been an issue with my ears, but he ENT said he found nothing abnormal. My regular eye doc said nothing in my vision has changed in over four years. He actually showed me the pics from my eye exams. He couldn't explain what was going on (he's also a shooter so it's easier to explain the issue to him).

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

My regular eye doc said nothing in my vision has changed in over four years. He actually showed me the pics from my eye exams. He couldn't explain what was going on (he's also a shooter so it's easier to explain the issue to him).

Finding an eye doc that is also a shooter is a HUGE benefit. After some of my issues with astigmatism, I talked to mine about why I was asking the questions I was, and found out he used to be a big time IDPA shooter. Made conversations with him a LOT easier.

 

[49er]

Alright, I can't figure out where else this question should be asked so here goes. I'm looking for insight since every thing the google machine tells me doesn't answer or resolve my issue.

Over the last six months or so, I've noticed that my reticle appears to be canted to the left. I discovered this when I kept needing double the wind holds others were using and double what I thought I actually needed at distance. I'd check my zero and it was on. I thought perhaps my scope wasn't level, so I checked it. And checked it again. I checked it with multiple bubble levels and a plumb bob. I sent a scope back to the manufacturer in the rings and was told that I'm basically a leveling genius and have a super level scope (maybe not those exact words but still). So why does the reticle appear STILL appear canted to the left? To be clear, this is multiple barreled actions, with multiple scopes and rings/mounts. They all look canted to my dumbass eyeball.

I wear glasses and/or contacts, so I've tried shooting without either. The reticle appears more correct then, but then I can't get the reticle to focus for shit because I'm blind as a bat. Astigmatism maybe? Anyone have this issue themselves? If so, what did you do or find to resolve it?

The scope reticle is level with gravity, not necessarily with the ground you are shooting on. If your range is slightly sloped if may appear that your reticle is not level in spite of the fact that it is.

 

[LH_Gina]

The scope reticle is level with gravity, not necessarily with the ground you are shooting on. If your range is slightly sloped if may appear that your reticle is not level in spite of the fact that it is.

Or I had a problem with my vision that was exacerbated by a medication I was taking which affected how I visually saw my reticle. I've been doing this for over a decade and never had an issue until after I started taking the problem medication.