Rifle Scopes Reticle not centered in scope eyebox

[CORam]

I have a Bushnell Elite Tactical LRTS 4.5-18x44. I have had the scope for maybe a year and have been using it during that time with no noticeable issues. I just went to move the scope to my hunting rifle and noticed that the reticle is not centered in the eyebox, or field of view, when I look through it. It appears to be shifted 0.5-1.0 mils (depending on magnification level, not sure if that even makes sense for the amount of error to change?) to the right of center.

It is amazing to me that I've only recently noticed this after using it for a year because I usually have a good eye for symmetry, straight, parallel, level, square, etc. So either it has moved (not sure if that's even possible?) or I simply didn't notice it before now. I'm guessing it has not changed and that I just didn't notice before, because I have never dropped the scope or done anything rough to it.

I would like to pose this question to you folks who know more about scope internals and function than I do - if the reticle is shifted to the side will this affect accuracy at any distances? Will it affect parallax error in any way, will it affect the accuracy/tracking ability of dialing elevation or windage in any way? From my mental evaluation (keep in mind I don't know a lot about scope internals), I could see this causing a horizontal shift in POI as you shoot to distances other than your zero distance, but correct me if I am wrong. I hope that I am.

If all of these things will be unaffected by this issue then I will not have a problem with it, but if it will have a potential negative impact on its performance then it will make me crazy when I see the offset/asymmetry each time I look through it.

Thank you for your help!

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

Whoa. Not sure if it would affect the zero on a FFP scope but I’d be sending that in.

 

[Just Macca]

Edit: This is incorrect advice - reticle is offcentre and most likely needs repair.

I would wind the windage all the way to its left stop, then count how many mils it takes to hit its right stop. Once you have that number, halve it and move that amount back left to centre everything.

Result 1: The reticle is centred perfectly.
This probably means that your action/mount/rings/barrel or a combination of everything is meaning that for your rifle to be zeroed, it requires a substantial amount of windage to one side. This is a mechanical part of the rifles construction, and although not ideal - is not uncommon to some degree.

Result 2: The reticle is offset and you’re confident the windage is centred.
There’s an issue with the scope and it should be sent off. I would get it rectified in case you want to sell it one day in good conscience it’s fully functional and to spec.

 

[CORam]

I would wind the windage all the way to its left stop, then count how many mils it takes to hit its right stop. Once you have that number, halve it and move that amount back left to centre everything.

Result 1: The reticle is centred perfectly.
This probably means that your action/mount/rings/barrel or a combination of everything is meaning that for your rifle to be zeroed, it requires a substantial amount of windage to one side. This is a mechanical part of the rifles construction, and although not ideal - is not uncommon to some degree.

Result 2: The reticle is offset and you’re confident the windage is centred.
There’s an issue with the scope and it should be sent off. I would get it rectified in case you want to sell it one day in good conscience it’s fully functional and to spec.

Does this imply that the reticle moves within the eyebox when adjusting windage? Because the reticle doesn't move when I adjust windage. I didn't think that it was supposed to move? It is shifted to the right the same amount no matter where it is adjusted to.

 

[Baron23]

Does this imply that the reticle moves within the eyebox when adjusting windage? Because the reticle doesn't move when I adjust windage. I didn't think that it was supposed to move? It is shifted to the right the same amount no matter where it is adjusted to.

I 'm afraid you should just send it in for repair. Have you talked to Bushnell about this?

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[CORam]

I have not talked to Bushnell yet. I figured I would this next week. My fear is that they may not be able to fix it but will issue a replacement but since that model has been discontinued I may not be able to get a replacement. And there are a number of reasons why I really want this model on my hunting rifle. In the meantime I figured I would see if anyone knows whether this is a serious concern and perhaps learn something from all of the knowledgeable people on here at the same time.

 

[Just Macca]

Does this imply that the reticle moves within the eyebox when adjusting windage? Because the reticle doesn't move when I adjust windage. I didn't think that it was supposed to move? It is shifted to the right the same amount no matter where it is adjusted to.

Apologies, I see your meaning and I am incorrect. Scope has issues, send it in.

Having said that, I see your point about it being out of production. If it tracks correctly at all distances, and you can live with it uncentered - up to you. I would struggle to have confidence in it though unless I had hundreds of rounds through it.

 

[CORam]

Apologies, I see your meaning and I am incorrect. Scope has issues, send it in.

Having said that, I see your point about it being out of production. If it tracks correctly at all distances, and you can live with it uncentered - up to you. I would struggle to have confidence in it though unless I had hundreds of rounds through it.

Just Macca, no worries! Thank you for the input. What's crazy is that I probably have 200 rounds on the scope and never noticed any issues. I even shot an RTC match with it. And the misalignment is only noticeable to me at/near max magnification, which I don't use often. BUT, that does not mean that it is not an issue, so I would like to find out. A better shooter might notice issues from it more than I do/did.

I will likely be reaching out to Bushnell. But it would be great for anyone with scope mechanical expertise to share their thoughts on the effect of the mis-aligned reticle, so that we might learn something in this endeavor.

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

If it’s only noticeable at max Mag it might be reticle jump. This won’t affect your poi on a FFP. It may or may not fall within what Bushnell deems is acceptable.

 

[CORam]

If it’s only noticeable at max Mag it might be reticle jump. This won’t affect your poi on a FFP. It may or may not fall within what Bushnell deems is acceptable.

Are you able to expand on the concept of "reticle jump?" I don't know what that is.

 

[LawnMM]

Send it in

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

It is when the reticle appears to move as you change magnification. My PMII has a tiny amount of this but it’s within S&B’s specs, and only really visible at max mag. You have to really look for it to notice it.

Your scope seems extreme and I would reach out to Bushnell.

 

[CORam]

It doesn't appear to actually move as I change magnification, but rather it is less noticeable as I zoom out. I imagine that this is because at high magnification 0.5 mils (for example) appears as a greater linear distance off of center than at low magnification, where it appears as a lesser linear distance off center. I THINK it is just easier to see at high magnification.

 

[CORam]

What is a reticle, physically? Is it etching on a lens?

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

If it’s an etched reticle in a FFP scope then it’s a small laser or acid etched lens inside the erector tube. Some scopes have wire reticles, like the old Nikon Monarch series, and were prone to moving/rotating. I’m not sure about your scope.

 

[CORam]

Thank you for the information, Guns&WhiteWater. I am wondering what internal components actually move when I adjust the elevation and windage turrets inside the scope. Does the reticle lens move or is it something in the erector system? My thought is that it doesn't seem like it would be the reticle lens, because if the reticle lens were the only thing moving then wouldn't the reticle move within the image that I see through the scope? Since the reticle appears to stay in the same spot within the eyebox during adjustment, and the entire image moves instead, this leads me to believe that it is not just the reticle that moves. It seems like the turrets must adjust the angular direction/axis of the entire erector and reticle lens assembly...am I off on that?

And I do not mean to diverge from the objective of this thread, but if I can get some answers to these long-held curiosities regarding the mechanical operation of a scope I think it will help me understand the impact of the issue and to evaluate (on my own) whether this issue is something to be concerned about with this scope, and also it will give me confidence in my equipment.

 

[918v]

The reticle is fixed to the erector tube and moves with the erector as you make your adjustments. The reason your reticle is off is because the guy who assembled your scope just didn’t give a fuck.

I once bought a S&B that looked like yours and immediately sent it back. So this isn’t limited to cheap scopes. Fact is reticles are seldom perfectly aligned.

 

[acudaowner]

if you have a warranty return it , if not oops have you tried standing sideways or upsides down that might help . Best of luck getting it fixed .

 

[supercorndogs]

If its been working so far why be down for a month on the chance Bushnell will consider it a defect.

 

[CORam]

The reticle is fixed to the erector tube and moves with the erector as you make your adjustments.

Thanks for that. So if that is the case then I am inclined to believe that the issue of a reticle off-center will not affect accuracy, tracking, POI shift at distance, etc. What you stated makes sense in terms of what I see through the eyebox when adjusting turrets.

If its been working so far why be down for a month on the chance Bushnell will consider it a defect.

I can definitely identify with this sentiment. I do not like sending things in for warranty repair if I don't need to, hence the posing of the question to help me understand the root cause of the problem. I don't like being down for a period of time, having to dismount/remount the scope, re-zero at the range, use extra ammo, etc. Not to mention the possibility of not being able to secure this model of scope if they issue a replacement.

 

[hlee]

How far off of center are your turrets? All sorts of weirdness can occur if you are at the extremes of the adjustment range. And, the reticle appearing off-center in the scope is what you would expect if you are at the extremes of the adjustment range. I had a similar "issue" with another scope. Turns out that the mount that I was using did not interface well with the rifle- probably because the scope base screw holes in the receiver are not true to the bore line. I bought a base with external adjustment and that solved the issue for me.

 

[918v]

Good idea. Center the erector within the scope and take another look. Although 1.5 mils off is ridiculous.

 

[CORam]

A little follow up. I was able to speak with the Elite Tactical Product Manager at Bushnell and he confirmed that the reticle being off-center should not produce any accuracy, tracking, or other issues. It does sound like it is something that they can fix. He said it may take 3 months to repair because they would need to send it off to Japan for repairs.

 

[Baron23]

He said it may take 3 months to repair because they would need to send it off to Japan for repairs.

Wow, good reason to look at other brands. That is unsat to my mind.

 

[CORam]

How far off of center are your turrets? All sorts of weirdness can occur if you are at the extremes of the adjustment range. And, the reticle appearing off-center in the scope is what you would expect if you are at the extremes of the adjustment range. I had a similar "issue" with another scope. Turns out that the mount that I was using did not interface well with the rifle- probably because the scope base screw holes in the receiver are not true to the bore line. I bought a base with external adjustment and that solved the issue for me.

I did not specifically check to see where it currently sits in the windage adjustment range, but I did dial all the way left and right and checked the reticle at those extremes and did not see anything change with the reticle.

 

[CORam]

Thank you to everyone for their input. I am glad to have a better understanding of scope internals, however I think this has simply prompted me to want to understand scope mechanics on a deeper level. I'll have to continue my research.

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

Yeah maybe @koshkin can chime in.