Revenge of the Autotricklers!

[SicVic]

I was inspired to make a video after reading a post from a Member this morning.
He was asking opinions on the V3 AT.
Pretty much the response was 100 positive feedback.
A lot of replies noted that it was fast and accurate.
I've had one AT and in about 10 minutes I was over that thing. Nuf said.
I went to the Dandy and have been sailing true every since.

I kinda started thinking about what actually was "Fast & Accurate"

I made this video as a platform to see results and to use as a performance guide between different types of tricklers.
If anyone has time to setup and run through 5 throws I think it would be a cool thing to share.
Any manufacturer welcome.
I'll collect the general data then post a follow-up video later.
Anyhow, 5 powder pour/drops, 38.0 grains, start timer when you start and stop after the last drop. Lastly, measure the total weight and report.
No scale resetting after you start and don't do it 48 times and post your absolute best run.
It's not a race; rather data to ponder.

For me; 2 minutes was a really good middle for time.
Out of the 7 times I tried this I was either dead on or 1 kernel above or below. For what that's worth.

Let the games begin.

 

[Dogtown]

Oh man, I had a Dandy....10 years ago.

 

[SicVic]

Oh man, I had a Dandy....10 years ago.

Was that a sarcastic "I had a Dandy" like I miss my pager or was that an exciting moment like thinking back to a happy place in your childhood.... Lol

 

[bunny too]

Yeah, the ATv3 is pretty freaking amazing, I am on the short list for the v4. Cannot wait to be able to run both at once.

 

[Dogtown]

A little of both

 

[SicVic]

A little of both

Ha. Roger that.

 

[SicVic]

Yeah, the ATv3 is pretty freaking amazing, I am on the short list for the v4. Cannot wait to be able to run both at once.

If you have the V3 now do the test I outlined up above ( if u have H4350) then you can use it later to compare to the v4 when it drops.
Good intell all around.

 

[bunny too]

If you have the V3 now do the test I outlined up above ( if u have H4350) then you can use it later to compare to the v4 when it drops.
Good intell all around.

Unfortunately I almost exclusively run extruded magnum powders (H1000, RL-33 etc.)

 

[spife7980]

The thing is, I don’t care how long it takes. My second generation auto trickler is faster than I can seat a bullet… so I expend zero actual time and effort on the weighing. Just set it down and pick it up.

 

[Krob95]

So It just so happened I had H4350 in the V3 from some loading of my 22GT this morning. I did what you said. Start the time on the first throw, end the time on the last throw, measure the cumulative amount of all 5 charges. Went with 38gr since that’s what you did and here are my results:

PS ignore all the powder on the scale… I had a moment this morning and didn’t have a chance to clean it up

 

[Dogtown]

I had a moment this morning and didn’t have a chance to clean it up

We've all done it...more than once.

 

[SicVic]

First, thanks much for posting up!
Wow that's impressive accuracy.
Just to clarify on the time... Did you dump each drop or just run consecutive drops into the hopper?
If you ran consecutive then our times would have been similar I'd think.

Nonetheless, great results!

Vic

 

[Krob95]

You’re welcome! Idumped each one into a container and kept the time going just like in your video. But thank you! I’d like to see someone with a chargemaster chime in and do this lol

 

[kriller134]

You’re welcome! Idumped each one into a container and kept the time going just like in your video. But thank you! I’d like to see someone with a chargemaster chime in and do this lol

My chargemaster would’ve taken 45-50seconds for 1 charge. I’m so happy I got a v3. I wish I could have taken a 12ga to the chargemaster, but I’m not baller enough.

 

[SicVic]

My chargemaster would’ve taken 45-50seconds for 1 charge. I’m so happy I got a v3. I wish I could have taken a 12ga to the chargemaster, but I’m not baller enough.

Ok, so I didn't want to name names but since it's out there; the Charge(not)master is the AT I tried at one time.
As a stand alone scale it was fine as a Autotrickler it had me searching for my spare cyanide tablet in under 10 minutes.
Mine definitely deserved a visit from the 12ga.

 

[SicVic]

Agreed, would like to see results from other manufacturers as well when someone has time.
RCBS, Hday, Lyman, Franky Ars and whoever else.

Big boots to fill against that V3 in my opinion.
I had not expected that speed otta that thing.

 

[TxWelder35]

it usually take me an hour to throw 50 charges on my CM1500

I want one of those v3 or v4 when they come out. Chargemaster is not a fast tool by any means. If I’m in a hurry I can tap on the output tube as it’s trickling to hurry it along.

 

[kriller134]

it usually take me an hour to throw 50 charges on my CM1500

I want one of those v3 or v4 when they come out. Chargemaster is not a fast tool by any means. If I’m in a hurry I can tap on the output tube as it’s trickling to hurry it along.

That was my experience as well. Don’t get me wrong it made pretty damn good ammo, but the time it took became too unbearable.

 

[SicVic]

1000%
I think what really broke me was the over throw.
Only .2gr or whatever ever but you already waited for what seemed a lifetime just to dump and do it again.

I drama it all up like it was a piece of junk but that's not the case.
I just felt I could get better consistency and speed going another route and for less $$$$.

 

[sam4886]

For the price, I like my chargemaster. I load on a Lett classic turret so by time I get the case around to the charging step, I'm usually only waiting a few seconds on the powder. No biggie. It will throw to what it says is the same weight, but it also isn't measuring to the kernel. Still good enough for single digit SDs.

I think we've all got a wish list with a V3 and zero press on it though. Maybe I can just sign my paychecks directly over to area419.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

The AT doesn't require you sit their and wait for it to stop dispensing so you can seat a bullet at the same time. If you added seating and throwing together the Dandy is probably two or three times slower.

 

[db2000]

Fantastic. I love to see this. Thanks for putting the time and effort in to make the video. Hopefully others will too with some various brands. I’ll probably try this with my single stage and manual trickler since I chimed in on the OG post. No doubt my accuracy on the scale will suffer.

 

[TxWelder35]

Even if I complain about my cm1500 that takes an hour to throw 50 charges I still get anywhere from 8-12fps SDs. That’s over 50 rounds and not 5. I don’t think a v3 or v4 autotrickler will make any more accurate ammo than my cm1500 but you are paying for the time savings. Really in reloading for the high end stuff you pay for convenience and time savings and not more accurate ammo.

^ above statement is for general Steel banging, PRS, etc. F class may be a different game, idk I haven’t done it.

 

[SicVic]

Even if I complain about my cm1500 that takes an hour to throw 50 charges I still get anywhere from 8-12fps SDs. That’s over 50 rounds and not 5. I don’t think a v3 or v4 autotrickler will make any more accurate ammo than my cm1500 but you are paying for the time savings. Really in reloading for the high end stuff you pay for convenience and time savings and not more accurate ammo.

^ above statement is for general Steel banging, PRS, etc. F class may be a different game, idk I haven’t done it.

In the end of you're happy and hitting what you wanted to hit it makes no matter the road you took to get there.
1 SD ammo can miss just as well as 20.

I'm a recreational shooter who just likes to try and hit dumb stuff and enjoys gathering intell on related subjects and sharing it with others.
Keep charging on with your Chargemaster!!

 

[SicVic]

The AT doesn't require you sit their and wait for it to stop dispensing so you can seat a bullet at the same time. If you added seating and throwing together the Dandy is probably two or three times slower.

This is a great point.
Of course you would need to be confident with the machine to throw properly for safety reasons.
From the one test I've seen posted here using the V3 performing other tasks would be a "go at this station Ranger"

 

[Mordamer]

I use 2 of these older RCBS charge master combos. They are both tuned to run Varget pretty optimally and they both have a reducer bushing so they are probably faster than standard units. I run them simultaneously with my Lee Turret press. While they are running I prime cases on the press and seat bullets. I almost never wait on one to finish so it's pretty efficient. I can load 50 rounds of ammo in about 20 minutes including priming and seating. Bought them both used on the PX on here and I have somewhere around $500 tied up in them total. Ammo regularly runs single digit SD's.

I just ran the test and I got 5 loads in 1:12 with total weight of 190.1 grains. I ran varget but it's fairly close to H4350.

 

[Stevo86]

it usually take me an hour to throw 50 charges on my CM1500

I want one of those v3 or v4 when they come out. Chargemaster is not a fast tool by any means. If I’m in a hurry I can tap on the output tube as it’s trickling to hurry it along.

Drop the coin and get the V3 buddy

 

[TxWelder35]

Drop the coin and get the V3 buddy

As the list of wants grows long, the flow of cash seems to dwindle. It’s a cruel world.

 

[Stevo86]

As the list of wants grows long, the flow of cash seems to dwindle. It’s a cruel world.

Word….

 

[SicVic]

Mordamer,

Alright and thank you!
So the Chargemaster slightly modified set to run in it's happy place can pop off 5 charges in roughly 2:24.
The accuracy is right on point with 190.1 which I had .1 difference in either direction when I tested my system several times.

Again, SDs are noted as being in the low range.
Overall reloading speed has again been achieved by multitasking while the machine runs its course.

Excellent!

 

[SicVic]

Looking for someone to test a non modified Chargemaster (single).

Also in reference to the statement up above about dropping fat coin...
Does anyone use the plastic Lee powder measure spoons for a centerfire equivalent to a 6.5 or thereabouts in terms of volume???
That would be low volume coin and I would love to see the speed/accuracy test with that.
Also looking for other manufacturers results... Don't be shy, it's not a race. Lol

I got made fun of right out tha gate for using an outdated Dandy so I've already shown I have no shame.
Thanks all!

 

[pmclaine]

Dandy user here.

Not being a "poor" I splurged and bought the electronic eye version for use with my beam scale. Got it out of the PX for an exorbitant price of around $75 2019 dollars. Would probably be about $35K in todays money. I also had to sign an agreement with Dandy stating I was not the actual owner but only a "leasee" and when no longer wanted I would have to relist it in the PX.

I actually love the thing.

It has increased my speed from the days of "twist" trickling to desired weight of a slightly low set pull.

Now I pull slightly low, let the dandy run "bulk" until the electronic eye shuts it off, than "tease" a kernel or two out with the "jiggler" button to have the balance measure my desired weight.

What I really like is the Dandy prism that allows me to view the beam reading without having to duck or wonder about parallax induced by different viewing stances.

I realize not everyone can afford the "Full Dandy" like me but its something for you all to aspire to.

Only downside was I got the "Mils" version and had to change all my MOA scopes on my rifles. That issue and changing the markings on my ammo cans from ".308 Win" to "7.62x51" was a hassle but worth it in the end.

 

[Punkur67]

You’re welcome! Idumped each one into a container and kept the time going just like in your video. But thank you! I’d like to see someone with a chargemaster chime in and do this lol

That's not fair. This is not the special Olympics

 

[Mordamer]

Looking for someone to test a non modified Chargemaster (single).

Also in reference to the statement up above about dropping fat coin...
Does anyone use the plastic Lee powder measure spoons for a centerfire equivalent to a 6.5 or thereabouts in terms of volume???
That would be low volume coin and I would love to see the speed/accuracy test with that.
Also looking for other manufacturers results... Don't be shy, it's not a race. Lol

I got made fun of right out tha gate for using an outdated Dandy so I've already shown I have no shame.
Thanks all!

Speaking of the Lee spoons, I had heard of several people in different 3rd world countries that actually filled cases to the brim with powder, scraped the excess off, and then squished it down with a bullet. This would only be safe with the right bullet/powder combo. Super slow powder I would think. I have always wondered what kind of precision could be achieved with this method.

 

[308Gunner]

I wonder how close the new Charge Master match master can do, it has been out long enough that someone should have it set up and running.

 

[pmclaine]

The full Dandy....

Off the press....

Press button 2....

Bzzzzzzzzz.....click.

Jiggle button 1.......

Buzz....bz.....bzzzbzzzbz.....

Three into it....

This post took longer.

 

[Hondo64d]

I have the Dandy auto Trickler I use with my Lyman M5 and it’s awesome. Too bad he’s not making the auto version anymore.

Anybody remember the AMT autoscale?

John

 

[SicVic]

Pmclaine,

Really nice and clean looking setup you have there.
Thanks for posting but more impressive than the system itself were the sound effects you added in the verbage.
With that I could almost feel the accuracy of the throw!

Seriously though; very nice reloading area.
Vic

 

[pmclaine]

Pmclaine,

Really nice and clean looking setup you have there.
Thanks for posting but more impressive than the system itself were the sound effects you added in the verbage.
With that I could almost feel the accuracy of the throw!

Seriously though; very nice reloading area.
Vic

If I panned out you would see half a shotgun on the left side of the bench and that behind me the kids soccer balls and other sports equipment leaves me about a two foot gap to work in front of my bench.

 

[SicVic]

That's amazing...
Looks like you had the entire garage converted into a reloading room; come to find out you really just converted the pantry that your wife "allowed" you to have.
Sounds bout like my setup. Lol

Good news is, we live in a world of what it looks like rather than what it is.

Good times!

 

[pmclaine]

That's amazing...
Looks like you had the entire garage converted into a reloading room; come to find out you really just converted the pantry that your wife "allowed" you to have.
Sounds bout like my setup. Lol

Good news is, we live in a world of what it looks like rather than what it is.

Good times!

I had that bench built using the NRMA shotgun reloader bench plans.

Carpenter from Vt gave me an amazing price and all I asked was that he use finish grade plywood.

He made it out of maple.

Here is reality.....

 

[SicVic]

I can see that do to the shortage of reloading components you're resorted to an alternate for home defense in the shape of Baseball Bats...
What the heck man!
Unless you look like that character in Mortal Kombat how many can you effectively swing at one time??
Plus side is, you do have and lifetime supply of training water training jugs for your next King Of the Mile competition...

When all else fails, Mount you Nam Helmet and fix Bayonet!

With wood prices nowadays that bench is likely worth $3000

Kidding aside, your are packed in there pretty good.
Cool you got a deal and we're able to have it the way you wanted.

 

[pmclaine]

Its all about perspective...

This is me up close.....

but when you pan back....

 

[SicVic]

Ha!
That's just proper Modus Operandi.
Fake it till ya make it.

 

[db2000]

Just ran 43.5 gr Varget through my Hornady hopper and Hornady GS-1500 scale calibrated with the 100 gram weight it came with. Hopper was throwing 43.4 consistently for 3/5, then 43.3 and finally 43.2. I used my pinch method of grabbing 3 grains per .1 needed to equal 43.5 each time. I actually manually trickle if it’s as low as the 43.2. I’ve gotten very good at this method but wanted to actually time it with 5 loads.
217.5 gr was the perfect total weight.
I came in at 217.7 gr. That’s if we are trusting the scale is accurate.
My time was 1.18 min for 5 and then 14 minutes in real time to fill 50 cases. 11 more minutes to seat all 50 on a single stage.

I’ve posted this pic before. It wasn’t cherry picked, just a day at the range rechecking my velocities in my Savage APO 308.

*My only disclaimer is that in 50 loads, it’s gonna cut powder sometimes and throw 0.5 gr over every 10 loads or so. That’s takes a little longer to remove than to add but not much. I’ve perfected that too.

FWIW, I don’t clean primer pockets, anneal, use neck mandrels and the brass is reused 8-10 times easily. FGMM brass.

 

[SicVic]

Db2000 just hammered 7 Redbulls and went immediately to the reloading room!!!
Information overload right there my friend. Lol
Alright let me decipher what's going on here...
You say Hornady Hopper.
Is it this like in my video?


1500 scale

If all this is correct then you load with $135.00 worth of product. (For powder)

This is great!
You're getting within .2gr accuracy with 5 throws, you have your system down to add or remove kernels that still keeps you right in contention with the fastest Autotrickler out there.
As you said all these numbers are only as reliable as the scale itself but no matter the scale model, we have to trust in its accuracy. (Yes, scales have an accuracy rating and are not all the same*noted)
You're getting results with this system that is obviously working well for you.
It sounds like you try to stay with one power as you know the weight adjustments very well.
Let me know if the equipment above is correct and thanks for taking the time to post up your test information.
Vic

 

[db2000]

Db2000 just hammered 7 Redbulls and went immediately to the reloading room!!!
Information overload right there my friend. Lol
Alright let me decipher what's going on here...
You say Hornady Hopper.
Is it this like in my video?

View attachment 7678985
1500 scale
View attachment 7678987
If all this is correct then you load with $135.00 worth of product. (For powder)

This is great!
You're getting within .2gr accuracy with 5 throws, you have your system down to add or remove kernels that still keeps you right in contention with the fastest Autotrickler out there.
As you said all these numbers are only as reliable as the scale itself but no matter the scale model, we have to trust in its accuracy. (Yes, scales have an accuracy rating and are not all the same*noted)
You're getting results with this system that is obviously working well for you.
It sounds like you try to stay with one power as you know the weight adjustments very well.
Let me know if the equipment above is correct and thanks for taking the time to post up your test information.
Vic

That’s it. My total time today for 200 rds was 1 hr 50 min. That was primed brass but I have to load the tray with the brass, add more powder, interrupted a few times by my wife and phone messages. I shoot to 1200 or so with my .308. It works for me. Same process with my 6.5 PRC and RL26.
That being said, if I shot more if probably invest in a V4 because even a few 10ths of a grain up and down gets old after 200 rds