Riding the bipods?

[wallace11bravo]

I came to the conclusion that, for me, attempting to ride the bipods results in gross inconsistency. This is with a GAP/McCree/Atlas combo.

When leaving a neutral load, I can usually keep one ragged hole, around 0.5 MOA. I do not experience hop or any real problems with recoil management/follow through.

It seems that recoil management, follow through, and/or steady position suffer when I attempt to put a forward load on the bipods. My groups will open up to 1-2 MOA, and I do not like. This is despite everything <span style="font-style: italic">feeling</span> more correct. I tried several different techniques, such as laying into the gun, or pushing in with my toes. All had the same results.

I know this goes against what is generally recommended here on the hide, and taught or recommended in various places. Does anyone else have a similar opinion or experience? Am I alone in not having good results from loading the bipods?

 

[jpspeeddemon]

Re: Riding the bipods?

You may be loading the bipod too much, its not a lot in the first place. If you feel like you're putting a lot of pressure into the bipod, its probably too much. For your Atlas, the correct amount of load will take up the forward/rearward travel in the bipod. That is, the bipod can not go forward or backward when you shoulder the rifle.

If you load the bipod, you must counter act that forward force of your dead weight with a rearward pull with the firing hand. This creates a vise between you shoulder and firing hand to keep the rufle under control during recoil.

Also, keep the shoulders relaxed at all times. There is a tendency to tense up the shoulders when loading the bipod and applying rearward pressure with the firing hand. Avoid this, as this shoulder tension will cause bipod hop and inconsistant shots.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Riding the bipods?

I have never "loaded" a bipod. Never found a need. Some do it some don't. If it doesn't work for you then don't do it. It's not something that needs to be done to shoot accurately.

 

[Mister Ouchie]

Re: Riding the bipods?

Loading shouldn't affect accuracy really. If it is you're pushing too hard or compromising some other aspect of your form to load the bipod. What it helps with is recoil management so you can take the *next* shot more quickly by staying more on target.

 

[dang472]

Re: Riding the bipods?

I've had decent luck loading my Atlas when shooting prone but it depends on the benchtop when I'm sitting. My one range has concrete tops and they suck for loading. I'm curious about shooting from a rest like Caldwell's Rock and a rear bag.

 

[wallace11bravo]

Re: Riding the bipods?


I'm pretty much with Rob01. I can maintain much better consistency in my fundamentals without loading, and with no real problem with recoil control, or bipod hop, I see no reason to keep trying to force a technique that compromises accuracy so much (at least for me)

(keyword: force)

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Riding the bipods?

Most overload the bipod, a little goes a long way.

That said if it is working and not causing you to lose sight of the target during and after the shot, don't change it. Follow Rob's advice.

I would guess though by your description you were being inconsistent trying to figure out what was the right pressure and you were changing things up ever so slightly from shot to shot. Odds are you were way over doing it.

Milliseconds and Microns when it comes to shooting a precision rifle. Small changes in time and distance, on the sub millimeter level matters.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Riding the bipods?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


Milliseconds and Microns when it comes to shooting a precision rifle. Small changes in time and distance, on the sub millimeter level matters. </div></div>

Some folks accept this as being the truth or fact on the matter; yet, they they don't embrace it or don't get its significance to good shooting.

In one hundred yard practice sessions for LR, my objective is zero dispersion. To have some success with this concept I need to control the rifle shot to shot with consistency which I describe as "to the molecular level". With such consistency, recoil resistance is consistent too; and, this makes the zero dispersion I'm after an occasional possibility. It also helps develop muscle memory for some pretty awesome shooting at LR, which is the whole point of a practice schedules like the one I use in the first place.

At any rate, LL is spot on. For those with some discipline, getting acquainted with some of these concepts is certain to be a rewarding experience.

BTW, I make no claim to know anything about how to properly use a bipod support. No one here would want me to show them how to do it.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Riding the bipods?

When I use a bipod, I'm already nearly always shooting from a bench. Us Elder Farts tend to be a tad creaky, and shooting prone can quickly become an exercise in self abuse. Old bones and old joints complain too loudly.

Any flexible support, including slings, can introduce bore axis deviation during barrel transit.

The same is true with free recoil off bags/rests when the sliding surfaces are not directly aligned with the bore axis; which is why BR bag rider stocks tend to show a lot of parallel lines.

None of this is a problem as long as bore axis deviations during bore transit are consistent. It's only when inconsistency looms that increasing dispersion is introduced.

When I use a bipod, I use it to introduce the butt surface to the shoulder so a consistent degree of initial contact pressure can be maintained, shot to shot. What is important here is the pressure relationship between shoudler and rifle butt; so the recoil cycle initiates with identical conditions and preloads for each shot. This need to be combined with the same angular relationship between rifle and bipod leg, so travel also initiates consistently.

While travel can be signfiicant, bore transit only occupies a small portion at its beginning. The shoulder continues to resist and absorb recoil long after the bullet is gone. It is that small early portion of the recoil cycle that can influence dispersion, and which needs to be consistent. Subsequent bipod hop, while annoying as Hell, is no more than coincidental to dispersion.

LL is dead on when he says a little preloading goes a long way, and again when he advocates adjusting NPA so sideways hop is eliminated, because whatever causes sideways hop will also affect dispersal.

Note also that shoulder height contacting the rifle butt is important. The closer the contact can be to where the boreline inetrsects the rifle butt, the less muzzle flip (and bipod hop) should occur.

This is why lower bipods often work better. This is also why AR's stay on target better under rapid fire, and why most shotguns have more significant muzzle flip.

Greg

 

[Cmonroe]

Re: Riding the bipods?

There are five additional fundamental steps that must be used when loading a bi-pod to see its advantage. I will tell you that loading is even more important on a dual impulse weapon system than a single impulse system. Free recoiling with perfect setups, like bench-rest, is proven to work well with all the other equipment and also in an environment were its not necessary for a shooter to be able to see their impacts or splash. However, for faster followup shots and seeing impacts/splash loading is advantageous.

 

[wallace11bravo]

Re: Riding the bipods?

All solid advice. I'll be pondering it for a few days.

To clarify, I do take the atlas to its furthest forward point of travel, I just don't put any real weight on it. When I did, BAM, consistency went to shit.

Spotting impacts/splash was only an issue back when I hadn't yet learned not to wrap my thumb around the grip (a couple years ago). I started resting my thumb on the stock, instead of wrapping, my follow through improved dramatically. I determined that recoil was causing the weapon to "twist" into my hand, displacing everything, including the axis of the glass. Since my idiot self stopped doing that, I haven't had any problems.