I'm building a .308 platform and I'm undecided on a barrel. Am I really going to gain more by going with a rifle length gas?
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Rifle gas or mid gas?
- Thread starter Tight group
- Start date
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
What is your definition of "gain more"....?
Not to sound too harsh, but, to be building a 308 semi; you don't appear to know various differences between the two.
My EMC utilizes rifle length with 16in barrel, fwiw.
What is your definition of "gain more"....?
Not to sound too harsh, but, to be building a 308 semi; you don't appear to know various differences between the two.
My EMC utilizes rifle length with 16in barrel, fwiw.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
Accuracy...reliability...I'm not sure what you meant, but ok...
I do know the differance between the two. Do you?
Anyone else that has usefull information?
Accuracy...reliability...I'm not sure what you meant, but ok...
I do know the differance between the two. Do you?
Anyone else that has usefull information?
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
Not trying to be a dick but if you can offer up a more pointed question it would be much easier to offer answers/opinions.
What are your priorities, recoil impulse, reliability, etc etc...
If you plan on running a 16" or longer barrel, is there a reason you would not want the rifle length gas system?
My preference is for rifle length gas whenever the barrel length makes it a possibility.
Not trying to be a dick but if you can offer up a more pointed question it would be much easier to offer answers/opinions.
What are your priorities, recoil impulse, reliability, etc etc...
If you plan on running a 16" or longer barrel, is there a reason you would not want the rifle length gas system?
My preference is for rifle length gas whenever the barrel length makes it a possibility.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Accuracy...reliability...I'm not sure what you meant, but ok...
I do know the differance between the two. Do you?
Anyone else that has usefull information? </div></div>
If you know the difference, why are you asking a very vague question, on a topic that has been hotly debated since the two co-existed, with no clear winner....?
And I gave you information. KAC went with a rifle length gas for the EMC, apparently after quite a bit of R&D. LMT, however, went with midlength, and I'm sure they did some homework as well.
Oh well, sorry I didnt give you the spoon fed information that is all over the internet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Accuracy...reliability...I'm not sure what you meant, but ok...
I do know the differance between the two. Do you?
Anyone else that has usefull information? </div></div>
If you know the difference, why are you asking a very vague question, on a topic that has been hotly debated since the two co-existed, with no clear winner....?
And I gave you information. KAC went with a rifle length gas for the EMC, apparently after quite a bit of R&D. LMT, however, went with midlength, and I'm sure they did some homework as well.
Oh well, sorry I didnt give you the spoon fed information that is all over the internet.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
I'm planning a 16 to 18 inch build. The barrels I'm looking at do come in a rifle length until 20 inches.
KAC has been known for haveing reliability issues and LMT doesn't offer anything in rifle length.
I'm looking to build something that I can carry and shoot some distance with. Guss this wasn't the place to ask that question.
Why would you want a rifle lenth whenever possible?
I'm planning a 16 to 18 inch build. The barrels I'm looking at do come in a rifle length until 20 inches.
KAC has been known for haveing reliability issues and LMT doesn't offer anything in rifle length.
I'm looking to build something that I can carry and shoot some distance with. Guss this wasn't the place to ask that question.
Why would you want a rifle lenth whenever possible?
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
KAC "reliability" issues....? In what regard? Sounds like regurgitated internetz....
LMT does offer rifle length gas with their 20" barrel.....
And don't get your feelings hurt about this not being "the place to ask". This is a great site, it's just you posted a super vague thread, then was posed a question of sort, then you capped an attitude.
Sounds like more research is needed.
KAC "reliability" issues....? In what regard? Sounds like regurgitated internetz....
LMT does offer rifle length gas with their 20" barrel.....
And don't get your feelings hurt about this not being "the place to ask". This is a great site, it's just you posted a super vague thread, then was posed a question of sort, then you capped an attitude.
Sounds like more research is needed.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
really you can't go wrong with either one. Just keep in mind you will have to enjoy shooting whatever you build.
As for black and white, it isn't.
really you can't go wrong with either one. Just keep in mind you will have to enjoy shooting whatever you build.
As for black and white, it isn't.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
Well, I'll wade into these muddy waters.
Just my opinion. For 16", I like mid-length. For my 18", I'm using a rifle length gas system. They shoot great. Unless I'm mistaken, there will be no accuracy difference in the two.
Well, I'll wade into these muddy waters.
Just my opinion. For 16", I like mid-length. For my 18", I'm using a rifle length gas system. They shoot great. Unless I'm mistaken, there will be no accuracy difference in the two.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Birddog1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I'll wade into these muddy waters.
Just my opinion. For 16", I like mid-length. For my 18", I'm using a rifle length gas system. They shoot great. Unless I'm mistaken, there will be no accuracy difference in the two. </div></div>
thank you! thats the kind of response i was looking for. someone that has the gear that can give me some real feedback.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Birddog1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I'll wade into these muddy waters.
Just my opinion. For 16", I like mid-length. For my 18", I'm using a rifle length gas system. They shoot great. Unless I'm mistaken, there will be no accuracy difference in the two. </div></div>
thank you! thats the kind of response i was looking for. someone that has the gear that can give me some real feedback.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TallShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KAC "reliability" issues....? In what regard? Sounds like regurgitated internetz....
LMT does offer rifle length gas with their 20" barrel.....
And don't get your feelings hurt about this not being "the place to ask". This is a great site, it's just you posted a super vague thread, then was posed a question of sort, then you capped an attitude.
Sounds like more research is needed. </div></div>
talk to some of our boys that actually use them in combat. KACs have issues.
dont worry my friend, no attitude here. and no my feelings arent hurt.
and i stand corrected LMT does make a 20 rifle gas.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TallShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KAC "reliability" issues....? In what regard? Sounds like regurgitated internetz....
LMT does offer rifle length gas with their 20" barrel.....
And don't get your feelings hurt about this not being "the place to ask". This is a great site, it's just you posted a super vague thread, then was posed a question of sort, then you capped an attitude.
Sounds like more research is needed. </div></div>
talk to some of our boys that actually use them in combat. KACs have issues.
dont worry my friend, no attitude here. and no my feelings arent hurt.
and i stand corrected LMT does make a 20 rifle gas.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I
Why would you want a rifle lenth whenever possible? </div></div>
For any given barrel length and load a rifle length gas system will offer a smoother or lessened recoil response than the comparable midlength setup. This is due to the case being extracted while under less internal pressure than a shorter gas system (carbine, midlength), and there for it takes less total gas volume and pressure to operate the BCG.
Now by playing with gas port sizes, buffer weights, etc you can mitigate the shortcomings of the midlength or carbine length gas system but the rifle length gas system clearly gives you the best option for having the most widely reliable system and most easily tunable.
Do look into dialing back your attitude though. You called someone out with the " I know do you" type bullshit and clearly you do not know.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I
Why would you want a rifle lenth whenever possible? </div></div>
For any given barrel length and load a rifle length gas system will offer a smoother or lessened recoil response than the comparable midlength setup. This is due to the case being extracted while under less internal pressure than a shorter gas system (carbine, midlength), and there for it takes less total gas volume and pressure to operate the BCG.
Now by playing with gas port sizes, buffer weights, etc you can mitigate the shortcomings of the midlength or carbine length gas system but the rifle length gas system clearly gives you the best option for having the most widely reliable system and most easily tunable.
Do look into dialing back your attitude though. You called someone out with the " I know do you" type bullshit and clearly you do not know.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
when shells are ejected under pressure does it make for more wrok when reloading or do the spent cases come out the same?
when shells are ejected under pressure does it make for more wrok when reloading or do the spent cases come out the same?
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
Assuming the gun does not have timing issues (unlocking early) that would be more of a factor of chamber sizing/accuracy not the fact that the rifle cycles by gas pressure.
To clarify what I was explaining when any round is fired the internal pressure expands the brass slightly to fill whatever small space surrounds the case in the chamber. For the period of time the bullet is still in the barrel the brass is "stuck" against the chamber walls with the internal pressure. The longer (milliseconds) you can wait for the extraction to occur the less friction between case and chamber wall will have to be overcome. This is one of the reasons we see a lot of heavier buffer weights for the carbine system. Not only to reduce full auto rate but also delay the unlocking until less pressure is needed to literally drag the brass out of the chamber.
Now there are some reasons for a manufacturer to choose one over the other but IMO I prefer rifle length systems whenever possible.
Assuming the gun does not have timing issues (unlocking early) that would be more of a factor of chamber sizing/accuracy not the fact that the rifle cycles by gas pressure.
To clarify what I was explaining when any round is fired the internal pressure expands the brass slightly to fill whatever small space surrounds the case in the chamber. For the period of time the bullet is still in the barrel the brass is "stuck" against the chamber walls with the internal pressure. The longer (milliseconds) you can wait for the extraction to occur the less friction between case and chamber wall will have to be overcome. This is one of the reasons we see a lot of heavier buffer weights for the carbine system. Not only to reduce full auto rate but also delay the unlocking until less pressure is needed to literally drag the brass out of the chamber.
Now there are some reasons for a manufacturer to choose one over the other but IMO I prefer rifle length systems whenever possible.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Accuracy...reliability...I'm not sure what you meant, but ok...
I do know the differance between the two. Do you?
Anyone else that has usefull information?</div></div>
Do a lot more research and lose the attitude. The information that has been provided so far is pretty basic stuff regarding the Stoner design and the effect longer/shorter gas systems have on it.
Give us more information about what you're looking for that you haven't found in your own research. Otherwise, you might as well have posted a "what barrel length should I choose" thread or something else equally vague.
There's a lot of helpful information already in the threads. Read more than you post and I promise you, you'll have your answers.
I chose a mid-length system because although I would use mine for distance shooting, I also wanted the swing weight to be slightly lower to make it a faster gun for closer engagements. What's your rifle going to be doing? How will you be using it? What do you think you would gain/lose by going with either gas system?
Answers to those questions would help YOU get the answers YOU want.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Accuracy...reliability...I'm not sure what you meant, but ok...
I do know the differance between the two. Do you?
Anyone else that has usefull information?</div></div>
Do a lot more research and lose the attitude. The information that has been provided so far is pretty basic stuff regarding the Stoner design and the effect longer/shorter gas systems have on it.
Give us more information about what you're looking for that you haven't found in your own research. Otherwise, you might as well have posted a "what barrel length should I choose" thread or something else equally vague.
There's a lot of helpful information already in the threads. Read more than you post and I promise you, you'll have your answers.
I chose a mid-length system because although I would use mine for distance shooting, I also wanted the swing weight to be slightly lower to make it a faster gun for closer engagements. What's your rifle going to be doing? How will you be using it? What do you think you would gain/lose by going with either gas system?
Answers to those questions would help YOU get the answers YOU want.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AustinCQC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Accuracy...reliability...I'm not sure what you meant, but ok...
I do know the differance between the two. Do you?
Anyone else that has usefull information?</div></div>
Do a lot more research and lose the attitude. The information that has been provided so far is pretty basic stuff regarding the Stoner design and the effect longer/shorter gas systems have on it.
Give us more information about what you're looking for that you haven't found in your own research. Otherwise, you might as well have posted a "what barrel length should I choose" thread or something else equally vague.
There's a lot of helpful information already in the threads. Read more than you post and I promise you, you'll have your answers.
I chose a mid-length system because although I would use mine for distance shooting, I also wanted the swing weight to be slightly lower to make it a faster gun for closer engagements. What's your rifle going to be doing? How will you be using it? What do you think you would gain/lose by going with either gas system?
Answers to those questions would help YOU get the answers YOU want. </div></div>
obviously you didnt continue to read this thread. i dont have an attitude. i know KACs are the coolest semi 308s out and there are a lot of fan boys out there that dont want to hear that they have problems. i did use the search on this forum. having said that i did read a lot of good things about KACs, but i also read some things from actual users saying they arent so good. i also live in a part of the country that has rangers and SF on the same base and i know a few. for a DM role they would choose other weapons because KACs have reliability issues and they say it comes from the gas system.
as for my build, im going to stray away from a precision build and go for more of a battle rifle. i already have a decent bolt gun for precision shooting and i do more run and gun type shooting anyway. a semi 308 is very versatile witch will be great for me.
i started with a matched MA-TEN set and a 12'' dd lite rail. all the funiture is the larue UDE kit. the barrel will be a 16 mid stainless and i may cut it down to 14.5 with a surefire or AAC break. everything is together with the exception of the barrel and break. as soon as its finished ill try and post some eye candy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AustinCQC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Accuracy...reliability...I'm not sure what you meant, but ok...
I do know the differance between the two. Do you?
Anyone else that has usefull information?</div></div>
Do a lot more research and lose the attitude. The information that has been provided so far is pretty basic stuff regarding the Stoner design and the effect longer/shorter gas systems have on it.
Give us more information about what you're looking for that you haven't found in your own research. Otherwise, you might as well have posted a "what barrel length should I choose" thread or something else equally vague.
There's a lot of helpful information already in the threads. Read more than you post and I promise you, you'll have your answers.
I chose a mid-length system because although I would use mine for distance shooting, I also wanted the swing weight to be slightly lower to make it a faster gun for closer engagements. What's your rifle going to be doing? How will you be using it? What do you think you would gain/lose by going with either gas system?
Answers to those questions would help YOU get the answers YOU want. </div></div>
obviously you didnt continue to read this thread. i dont have an attitude. i know KACs are the coolest semi 308s out and there are a lot of fan boys out there that dont want to hear that they have problems. i did use the search on this forum. having said that i did read a lot of good things about KACs, but i also read some things from actual users saying they arent so good. i also live in a part of the country that has rangers and SF on the same base and i know a few. for a DM role they would choose other weapons because KACs have reliability issues and they say it comes from the gas system.
as for my build, im going to stray away from a precision build and go for more of a battle rifle. i already have a decent bolt gun for precision shooting and i do more run and gun type shooting anyway. a semi 308 is very versatile witch will be great for me.
i started with a matched MA-TEN set and a 12'' dd lite rail. all the funiture is the larue UDE kit. the barrel will be a 16 mid stainless and i may cut it down to 14.5 with a surefire or AAC break. everything is together with the exception of the barrel and break. as soon as its finished ill try and post some eye candy.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AustinCQC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Accuracy...reliability...I'm not sure what you meant, but ok...
I do know the differance between the two. Do you?
Anyone else that has usefull information?</div></div>
Do a lot more research and lose the attitude. The information that has been provided so far is pretty basic stuff regarding the Stoner design and the effect longer/shorter gas systems have on it.
Give us more information about what you're looking for that you haven't found in your own research. Otherwise, you might as well have posted a "what barrel length should I choose" thread or something else equally vague.
There's a lot of helpful information already in the threads. Read more than you post and I promise you, you'll have your answers.
I chose a mid-length system because although I would use mine for distance shooting, I also wanted the swing weight to be slightly lower to make it a faster gun for closer engagements. What's your rifle going to be doing? How will you be using it? What do you think you would gain/lose by going with either gas system?
Answers to those questions would help YOU get the answers YOU want. </div></div>
obviously you didnt continue to read this thread. i dont have an attitude. i know KACs are the coolest semi 308s out and there are a lot of fan boys out there that dont want to hear that they have problems. i did use the search on this forum. having said that i did read a lot of good things about KACs, but i also read some things from actual users saying they arent so good. i also live in a part of the country that has rangers and SF on the same base and i know a few. for a DM role they would choose other weapons because KACs have reliability issues and they say it comes from the gas system.
as for my build, im going to stray away from a precision build and go for more of a battle rifle. i already have a decent bolt gun for precision shooting and i do more run and gun type shooting anyway. a semi 308 is very versatile witch will be great for me.
i started with a matched MA-TEN set and a 12'' dd lite rail. all the funiture is the larue UDE kit. the barrel will be a 16 mid stainless and i may cut it down to 14.5 with a surefire or AAC break. everything is together with the exception of the barrel and break. as soon as its finished ill try and post some eye candy. </div></div>
You're the man bro. Let us know how it turns out, so we can learn something.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AustinCQC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Accuracy...reliability...I'm not sure what you meant, but ok...
I do know the differance between the two. Do you?
Anyone else that has usefull information?</div></div>
Do a lot more research and lose the attitude. The information that has been provided so far is pretty basic stuff regarding the Stoner design and the effect longer/shorter gas systems have on it.
Give us more information about what you're looking for that you haven't found in your own research. Otherwise, you might as well have posted a "what barrel length should I choose" thread or something else equally vague.
There's a lot of helpful information already in the threads. Read more than you post and I promise you, you'll have your answers.
I chose a mid-length system because although I would use mine for distance shooting, I also wanted the swing weight to be slightly lower to make it a faster gun for closer engagements. What's your rifle going to be doing? How will you be using it? What do you think you would gain/lose by going with either gas system?
Answers to those questions would help YOU get the answers YOU want. </div></div>
obviously you didnt continue to read this thread. i dont have an attitude. i know KACs are the coolest semi 308s out and there are a lot of fan boys out there that dont want to hear that they have problems. i did use the search on this forum. having said that i did read a lot of good things about KACs, but i also read some things from actual users saying they arent so good. i also live in a part of the country that has rangers and SF on the same base and i know a few. for a DM role they would choose other weapons because KACs have reliability issues and they say it comes from the gas system.
as for my build, im going to stray away from a precision build and go for more of a battle rifle. i already have a decent bolt gun for precision shooting and i do more run and gun type shooting anyway. a semi 308 is very versatile witch will be great for me.
i started with a matched MA-TEN set and a 12'' dd lite rail. all the funiture is the larue UDE kit. the barrel will be a 16 mid stainless and i may cut it down to 14.5 with a surefire or AAC break. everything is together with the exception of the barrel and break. as soon as its finished ill try and post some eye candy. </div></div>
You're the man bro. Let us know how it turns out, so we can learn something.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
obviously you didnt continue to read this thread. i dont have an attitude.
as for my build, im going to stray away from a precision build and go for more of a battle rifle. i already have a decent bolt gun for precision shooting and i do more run and gun type shooting anyway. a semi 308 is very versatile witch will be great for me.
i started with a matched MA-TEN set and a 12'' dd lite rail. all the funiture is the larue UDE kit. the barrel will be a 16 mid stainless and i may cut it down to 14.5 with a surefire or AAC break. everything is together with the exception of the barrel and break. as soon as its finished ill try and post some eye candy. </div></div>
I read it all. Subtext says differently, but whatever.
Sounds like a sweet setup. Who are you getting your barrel from? Mega? I'm debating on an AAC MITER or Surefire brake myself for a build. A guy local to me sells both and has both. I think the AAC MITER has to have the barrel turned down because it rides over it quite a ways.
Looking forward to pics!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tight group</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
obviously you didnt continue to read this thread. i dont have an attitude.
as for my build, im going to stray away from a precision build and go for more of a battle rifle. i already have a decent bolt gun for precision shooting and i do more run and gun type shooting anyway. a semi 308 is very versatile witch will be great for me.
i started with a matched MA-TEN set and a 12'' dd lite rail. all the funiture is the larue UDE kit. the barrel will be a 16 mid stainless and i may cut it down to 14.5 with a surefire or AAC break. everything is together with the exception of the barrel and break. as soon as its finished ill try and post some eye candy. </div></div>
I read it all. Subtext says differently, but whatever.
Sounds like a sweet setup. Who are you getting your barrel from? Mega? I'm debating on an AAC MITER or Surefire brake myself for a build. A guy local to me sells both and has both. I think the AAC MITER has to have the barrel turned down because it rides over it quite a ways.
Looking forward to pics!
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
I think I'll use a rainier barrel. Mega doesn't sell barrels as of yet. For me I'm not too worried about flash as I am recoil, so I'm looking to go with a break plus I think they look cooler. I may change my mind later though. Some of the competitions I do are with the lights out, so a break may be too much.
I think I'll use a rainier barrel. Mega doesn't sell barrels as of yet. For me I'm not too worried about flash as I am recoil, so I'm looking to go with a break plus I think they look cooler. I may change my mind later though. Some of the competitions I do are with the lights out, so a break may be too much.
Re: Rifle gas or mid gas?
You should just get a Barrett 50. since 50. is the best ever all the SF guys agree it's the best. 308 is for fanboys.
You should just get a Barrett 50. since 50. is the best ever all the SF guys agree it's the best. 308 is for fanboys.
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