Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

[BattleAxe]

Here's the project...

I have a late (92-ish) pre-ban Colt Comp HBAR and want to convert this to a M4-style platform. I could piecemeal this to save a buck but money is not a factor.

I'm looking for a complete upper with floated rail. Quality/accuracy is important. I'm not considering going piston.

The buffer/tube will need replacement as well correct? It has a A2 length buffer tube now and will get a Magpul ACS stock.

The last question...given what this conversion will cost can you get a good quality complete weapon for slightly more and avoid the hassle of the conversion all together? I'd sell the Colt to offset cost...I have no use for it in its current configuration.

Thanks

 

[dmg308]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

Sell the Colt and buy either a new Colt or LMT m4 ready to go.You can get a new LMT for around a grand and you should be able to get close to that out of your Colt.

 

[ORD]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

WOW!!! Where to start?!?!

Well, first off, what specifically do you want to be able to do with either a new upper or a complete new rifle? (Target, competition, SHTF, etc.??) In other words...how accurate is accurate enough (1.5MOA, MOA, sub-MOA)?

From there...it is hard to give you a detailed price because there are just so damn many variables that can add/subtract from the price of any AR build out (whether a complete rifle/carbine or just an upper), including: 1) which barrel/manufacturer you select; 2) which HG/FF Tube/Rail system you select (big difference in price between say an Armalite FF tube and a Daniel Defense Lite Rail); 3) how expensive you go for a carrier, gas block, muzzle device, and all the other parts you need to complete the upper beside the barrel and HG.

As for costs easy to nail down, for an ACS to work on your current rifle, you'll need a carbine, mil-spec receiver extension, carbine buffer, carbine recoil spring, end plate and castle nut. They are available in complete kits for around $55-60, plus the cost of the ACS at around $125. If you don't have one, you'll also need the carbine castle nut spanner wrench to install the receiver extension properly (another $10-15). So, with that in mind, you are looking at around $200 for the stock swap with all parts included an assembled on your rifle.

Frankly, if you don't plan on running your HBAR upper, you'd probably be better off just selling your Colt outright in one piece/package and buying a complete rifle of your chosing for around the same money. For example, I really like the Daniel Defense M4 series rifles. They put out an "updated" M4 package with many of the features/options that shooters end up doing as aftermarket when they buy a rack-grade M4. They each have all mil-spec components, DI gas systems, 16" cold hammer-forged, 1:7 twist barrels made of 4150 steel, MP tested, Daniel Defense free-floated railed HGs (models vary according to which version of their M4 you are looking at), and they come with Magpul stocks, grips and mags. The ones I have personally fired were MOA capable with good ammo and a good shooter. They can be had for around $1400 or so depending on the model you select. Your Competition HBAR is worth at least that much (likely more)...particularly to someone behind enemy lines in a ban state!!

Here are some examples of the DDM4 rifles:

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1646

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1283

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1848

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2159

DD also sells just the complete uppers for around $900-950...if you look on Rainier's site I linked you to above, they have them in stock as well. BUT...at that price, keep in mind that you will need to modify your existing Colt lower with the parts I mentioned above so add that to the cost and you are still at around $1150 or so just as one example.

Again...the world of AR's is vast with nearly endless options for complete M4-type rifles and uppers and you really may want to narrow down precisely what you want/need before you jump on anything.

Good luck, BattleAxe!!

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

Well you guys are thinking like me and I'm leaning towards a new stick. Basically I have a hole in my collection I'm trying to fill.

I have two auto sniper rigs in .308 and will pick up a Barrett 98B shortly as my heavy artilliary. What's missing is something light in 5.56 as a short to medium range piece that's suitable for CQB. As you can see the Colt has no mission...it's too heavy and long to be practical.

What do you think the Colt may be worth? It has maybe 3K rounds through it tops and has been very well cared for.

 

[ORD]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do you think the Colt may be worth? It has maybe 3K rounds through it tops and has been very well cared for. </div></div>

The best way to determine an approx. value is to run a search on GunBroker for completed auctions in the last 90 days. Use search terms like Colt Competition HBAR, pre-ban, the specific model number, etc. that best suit your rifle and see what comes up. You'll have to add/subtract for any accessories, etc., but that should get you in the ballpark. Also, as much as I hate to admit it, ARFCOM is another source to determine approx. pricing on an item like this.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

There were 2 pre-bans on gun broker with buy now options of $1400 and $1700. I didn't realize they were that valuable. My guess is that this thing would easily sell for around 1K. Why are the pre-bans worth so much?

 

[AK10mm]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

Just adding to the Dogpile here,selling the Colt as a complete rifle will put you money well ahead in getting a nice carbine from a good Mfr.Just curious,does it have the Gray Finish instead of the black anodizing?

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

Buy an LMT m4, at least the full upper (you could reuse your lower, unless it is a large pin Colt).

I am using an LMT m4 right now and it is a sweet rig. They make many different versions, both piston and DI for those who sway one way or the other.

This is basically the one I am shooting, but with the m16 BCG in it. It is a tack driver, far better than any other production gun i've had so far... and they were all pretty good. Mine is wearing magpul furniture and a Daniel Defense lite rail.

http://www.lmtstore.com/featured-products/defender-standard-patrol-model-16.html

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SANDRAT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just adding to the Dogpile here,selling the Colt as a complete rifle will put you money well ahead in getting a nice carbine from a good Mfr.Just curious,does it have the Gray Finish instead of the black anodizing? </div></div>

Yes, it is more of a gray-ish than it is black.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

So does anyone know what is different about a pre-ban? When I bought this thing in 92 I was told by the dealer that the Sporter moniker and shaving off the bayonet lug was an effort by Colt to bypass the ban.

 

[pupdawg]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

The AWB started in 1994 and ended in 2004.

A "pre-ban" AR15 constitutes any AR15 produced BEFORE 1994 (september I think) and was, during the ban years the only way to have the "evil features" so deemed by the ATF to constitute a banned assault rifle.

Any rifle that is 1) semi-automatic can only have 2 of the following "evil features": a detachable magazine, a pistol grip, a bayonet lug, a flash hider, a collapsible stock. These "ban" AR's usually kept their detachable mag and pistol grip which meant they had NO bayonet lug, NO collapsible stock, and NO flash hider. During this time people wanted to have the stuff that makes an AR an AR and the only way to get it was to buy a "pre-ban" rifle then convert it over to what they wanted it to have (eg collapsible stock, bayonet lug). Once the ban had expired 10 years later, everyone is free to have their AR the way it was supposed to be.

Your colt is just a colt as far as pre-ban and ban denotations are concerned because, well, there is no ban. With a low round count like 3000 rounds I'm sure you can get between 1100-1500 if the right people want it (colt collectors/enthusiasts).

Regardless, just sell it and use the money to get a new Colt 6920 or the LMT defender. My colt "ban model" has since been converted over to M4 configuration and has over 12,000 rounds without a part ever replaced aside from the parts needed to convert it from ban to no ban. Either way, colt or LMT and you're good for the long run. There are also others like Daniel Defense, Knights armament, etc.

 

[ORD]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

pupdawg's comments are pretty on with a one BIG exception.

Pre-ban still has meaning for those people living "behind enemy lines" in states that have enacted their own state laws/regs re: "assault weapons" and similar firearms modeled after the federal AWB. For those poor, unfortunate souls in "ban states," the pre- and post-ban designations still mean a LOT.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

Good info all. Thanx

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

there are 3 or 4 colt M4 uppers in the optics section. just a tip

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Rifle Length to M4 conversion advice

Well I went in a completely different direction this weekend. I put this project on hold and picked up what I really wanted. A Barrett 98B .338 Lapua, 27" barrel...

It should be delivered by Friday