Rifle Mounted Range Finder

[Awag1000]

Hey all, I was flipping through my book of ideas and I came across an Idea of a rifle mounted range finder. I know they already exist like the Wilcox Raptar and SiCo Radius. The only problem with that is the Raptar is very expensive and the Radius is no longer in production. I want to refine this idea into something that could be possible to make in reality. All I have is a bullet point list of features and a small handful of concept drawings. My idea boiled down is something of decent quality at a fair price (hopefully around $700 USD) that works. I have a very small understanding of how laser rangefinders work but ill do my best in the coming weeks to learn more. Is this something worth pursuing, or am I trying to answer a question no one asked?

 

[kthomas]

There's certainly a void of weapons mounted laser range finders.

The Wilcox's, while I understand are very capable, are extremely expensive. It's hard for many to stomach those costs.

The SiCo Radius was in a really good price range, but suffered from a poor mount and not the most adequate day time capable laser, limiting it's utility.

If someone could package a quality laser with a capable and reliable mount, and keep it sub $1000 (or even $1500), then I think they would sell well. The secondary market for SiCo Radius show that there is a desire for such a system, and if you can overcome it's weaknesses, I would definitely say there is a market.

I don't even think it would be that difficult to do with today's technology.

 

[Crews]

I feel like there’s a market out there but I’m far from an expert on such things. I’d be interested in a small/light/rugged unit that could be zeroed and had a simple range display. There’s a lot of folks that will focus on it needing to be 2,000 yard capable, but in the real world I’m willing to bet most field shots aren’t taken past 600 yards or so.

Having onboard ballistics or being able to Bluetooth to other solver equipment would make it more complicated and costly to develop. I suspect that’s what most folks would ask for. I would think getting a basic unit out first to grab market share would be better than waiting till a more complicated iteration was developed.

 

[kthomas]

I feel like there’s a market out there but I’m far from an expert on such things. I’d be interested in a small/light/rugged unit that could be zeroed and had a simple range display. There’s a lot of folks that will focus on it needing to be 2,000 yard capable, but in the real world I’m willing to bet most field shots aren’t taken past 600 yards or so.

Having onboard ballistics or being able to Bluetooth to other solver equipment would make it more complicated and costly to develop. I suspect that’s what most folks would ask for. I would think getting a basic unit out first to grab market share would be better than waiting till a more complicated iteration was developed.

An opportunity to have different models.

A budget hunting model, a higher end PRS type model, and an even more capable ELR model.

 

[theLBC]

i wonder if this works ok

Amazon product ASIN B077M4BF7T

 

[Crews]

An opportunity to have different models.

A budget hunting model, a higher end PRS type model, and an even more capable ELR model.

Yes I agree, and I think a stripped down hunting model actually has a much larger market.

There’s a lot of folks that could benefit from speeding up the process for 300-600 yard opportunities. And for <$1k it would be cheaper than buying LRF bino’s that have non-shitty glass.

Also, thermal night hunting is a much bigger past time than it used to be.

 

[Awag1000]

Here's the page. I had the idea of integrating a socket to use with a surefire tape switch or a Unity Hot button for momentary or continuous ranging. Couldn't really figure if I should go with a high quality 3D printed housing or a CNC machined aluminum housing.

 

[LibertyGC]

I like how you’ve got it sitting low on top of the optic. My radius sits up quite a ways and that can limit use around barricades or foliage. Being able to use a Modbutton would be great, The radius button is terrible. Having the screen on a swivel is smart, but putting it on the left side of the rangefinder limits use to only right handed shooters. I know it’s only 15%ish of shooters but it takes it off the table for someone like me. Cool design though.

 

[Awag1000]

I like how you’ve got it sitting low on top of the optic. My radius sits up quite a ways and that can limit use around barricades or foliage. Being able to use a Modbutton would be great, The radius button is terrible. Having the screen on a swivel is smart, but putting it on the left side of the rangefinder limits use to only right handed shooters. I know it’s only 15%ish of shooters but it takes it off the table for someone like me. Cool design though.

I am probably going to figure out a way to make the display Ambi. Trying to keep everything simple.

 

[Odysseus1911]

Here's the page. I had the idea of integrating a socket to use with a surefire tape switch or a Unity Hot button for momentary or continuous ranging. Couldn't really figure if I should go with a high quality 3D printed housing or a CNC machined aluminum housing.
View attachment 7785742

Maybe rotate the battery housings 90 degrees. Early Eotechs had batteries mounted parallel to barrel axis, and recoil caused the batteries to beat the springs and contacts until the batteries eventually lost reliable contact. Recent generations, the batteries are 90 degrees to barrel axis.

 

[Sogan]

Id buy one for sure

 

[earthquake]

I don't see why it can't be done. Even stranger is why it hasn't been done yet. As was said, the Radius market is still there and they are selling for $1,000 easy...very used!

I worked on some projects with LTI (Laser Technology Inc) who make the TruPulse and the Gunwerks lasers. I advised them of the giant hole in this market space, as they were/are looking for more projects, but all I heard back was crickets. Not sure why no one is interested in this.

I'm in the same boat. The Wilcox is king, at king prices. I had a Radius, but wasn't a fan of it's size, weight etc. There's really nothing else. I will be following this thread with interest!

 

[Awag1000]

So the next step in this is how does a rangefinder work? What is the method in which it operates? I know it uses infrared lasers and a computer but that's the extent of my knowledge.

 

[Adam B]

i wonder if this works ok

Amazon product ASIN B077M4BF7T

https://amzn.to/3rkDk0d

seems to have good reviews on Amazon

 

[kthomas]

The used market for the SiCo Radius is a proof of concept for this idea. There is obviously an interest in such a product.

I would love to have involvement with bringing such a product to the market, if the OP wants some help. I think this is really cool.

 

[Sogan]

Im working on tracking down a radius to see how I like running one on my night gun BUT it is massive. So if it works as intended id be up for a smaller unit

 

[Awag1000]

I need to get educated on current handheld rangefinders. See if I can take a cheap one apart and retrofit it into a housing and send it.

 

[Adam B]

For $200 I would try the one off Amazon

 

[gwood]

EO Devices would build you one or sell you the sub-components.

 

[Awag1000]

EO Devices would build you one or sell you the sub-components.

That sounds expensive. Also I'll be 100% honest that I haven't the slightest idea of what some of those modules are or do.
However I really appreciate this resource you gave me. If there is anyone that is willing to spend some time finding me more resources so I can improve upon this design I will be incredibly grateful.
Thank you all for your input and time. -Austin.

 

[lariat]

I think you’ll find that most aren’t going to help on a project without some form of profit sharing or compensation.

If you are not aware of what you need or how it works you will be leaning heavily on others and very few will develop your products for free.

I’m definitely no trying to shit on your idea (looks very cool) just providing some knowledge and insight. This will also fall under ITAR I believe so be ready for that.

ETA: there are a couple of companies who have done this. Trackpoint, vortex, and others already mentioned. One thing I would HIGHLY suggest you do is do a patent search to ensure you don’t go down this road and spend all the money to develop, market, set up the supply chain and production only to be sued.

 

[Awag1000]

think you’ll find that most aren’t going to help on a project without some form of profit sharing or compensation.

If you are not aware of what you need or how it works you will be leaning heavily on others and very few will develop your products for free.

I’m definitely no trying to shit on your idea (looks very cool) just providing some knowledge and insight. This will also fall under ITAR I believe so be ready for that.

I get that. Thank you for telling me what I need to hear (I don't want to become the "choosey beggar"). Just looking for knowledge resources. Thank again. -Austin

 

[Alpine 338]

There are companies, both high end and Made in China crap that make the ranging modules. All you have to do is build a housing that incorporates a mount, display, and battery compartment.

Here's an example of high end;

Laser Range Finding LRF-Modules | Ultisense OEM Solutions

Our laser rangefinder modules set standards when it comes to sensors for distance measurement. A solid solution empowering your product to exceed its limits.

ultisense.safran-vectronix.com

There's a couple in Israel, and they would probably be the best bang for the buck.

Good luck.

 

[lariat]

I get that. Thank you for telling me what I need to hear (I don't want to become the "choosey beggar"). Just looking for knowledge resources. Thank again. -Austin

Thanks for taking my post the way it was intended. I have been in your shoes a couple times. It can get expensive and exhausting but if you can swing it you should definitely go for it. It’s what makes America great.

 

[lariat]

There are companies, both high end and Made in China crap that make the ranging modules. All you have to do is build a housing that incorporates a mount, display, and battery compartment.

Here's an example of high end;

Laser Range Finding LRF-Modules | Ultisense OEM Solutions

Our laser rangefinder modules set standards when it comes to sensors for distance measurement. A solid solution empowering your product to exceed its limits.

ultisense.safran-vectronix.com

There's a couple in Israel, and they would probably be the best bang for the buck.

Good luck.

Please stay away from China if possible. Israel would be a good source but make sure what you are getting is a proven model and don’t share the total design or you may find another version in the market before you can get it out.

 

[Awag1000]

There are companies, both high end and Made in China crap that make the ranging modules. All you have to do is build a housing that incorporates a mount, display, and battery compartment.

Here's an example of high end;

Laser Range Finding LRF-Modules | Ultisense OEM Solutions

Our laser rangefinder modules set standards when it comes to sensors for distance measurement. A solid solution empowering your product to exceed its limits.

ultisense.safran-vectronix.com

There's a couple in Israel, and they would probably be the best bang for the buck.

Good luck.

Safran's options look awesome. I can only assume they are going to be expensive. However I will reach out to them to see what the cost of one of their smaller offerings are. Doesn't hurt to ask.

 

[Awag1000]

Please stay away from China if possible. Israel would be a good source but make sure what you are getting is a proven model and don’t share the total design or you may find another version in the market before you can get it out.

I refuse to give China money at all costs.

 

[Sogan]

honestly im surprised more haven't hit the market with some of these "kits" that appear almost ready to go. I have ZERO programming knowledge so I'm worthless but this is encouraging.

 

[gwood]

If you wanted to do it right, build a rifle mounted LRF wired up to something like a Barrett BORS. I know there are already digital scopes with built in range finders, but this way you could have something with high end glass.

 

[Awag1000]

If you wanted to do it right, build a rifle mounted LRF wired up to something like a Barrett BORS. I know there are already digital scopes with built in range finders, but this way you could have something with high end glass.

That's an idea. One of the first issues with my design was it was for righty shooters. If I can get a small OLED readout with Applied Ballistics that can fit between the scope and rail that would be optimal. If it were a modular system it would be more beneficial to the end user.

 

[Awag1000]

So after looking through some of the LRF modules available on the market. My initial concept art is much to large. I believe I can HALF (halve?) The size of the range finder. I'm currently working on a model of a prototype in Fusion 360. This is so exciting. Projected rangefinding ability is around 5km (~3miles).

 

[Huckmeat]

Good luck. I don't want to crap on your dream, if you can build it and it works I will buy for sure.

I do software inside consumer electronics for a living, and tried to build a rangefinding project off of a commercial module. None of the modules were remotely competitive with the better rangefinders available today. Add in manufacturing, making a consumer electronic rugged, and licensing AB for inside your product, if you can make it for $1500 you will be doing amazing. I hope you can do it!

 

[gwood]

Looks like Magpul is ahead of us.

 

[Awag1000]

Looks like Magpul is ahead of us.

Did Magpul announce something or show something off at shot show?

 

[gwood]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/01/18/shot-show-magpul-x-maztech-x4-system/

 

[Awag1000]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/01/18/shot-show-magpul-x-maztech-x4-system/

$2000 for the whole system.

 

[Lowlight]

Stuff is getting smaller for sure

 

[Awag1000]

Stuff is getting smaller for sure
View attachment 7788387

That is tiny. What is that?

 

[Lowlight]

A MARS that is coming out soon ...

 

[Awag1000]

I'm now determined to make something better.

 

[Sogan]

A MARS that is coming out soon ...

View attachment 7788402

Any idea on price yet?

 

[Awag1000]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than $2,000.

Any idea on price yet?

 

[TylerN]

My guess is another $8k product that is vaporware for the civilian market.

 

[Sogan]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than $2,000.

I’d take one without to keep the price down

 

[The Durk]

I'd gladly pay for something in the 2-3k price point that's CIVI friendly.

 

[Lowlight]

Civilian version will be $6500

Military is $8k has a few extra features

It's out, and not a vaporware company, the guys are using it

 

[Crews]

Sooo, still a price tag that will make it supremely uninteresting for the overwhelming majority of average shooters.

 

[PDXGS]

From an IP protection POV you may want to consider taking your pics offline for a while ....at least until you get something filed with the USPTO. I'm all for this kind of development but I'd hate to see good ideas killed by bad decisions.
Hire a patent attorney and get one of these filed ASAP...

Provisional Application for Patent

Guide to a provisional patent application, which allows you to file without a formal patent claim, oath or declaration, or any information disclosure (prior art) statement.

www.uspto.gov

A good patent attorney can help you navigate through existing IP and help you get your application together ....but plan/budget on spending $10K as a ballpark estimate on the advice and filing fees.

 

[bunny too]

I have a Radius, it has been repaired once. The only issue is it is mounted on the gun, so you have to point your (loaded) gun at what you want to range...so you have to make sure you are following the firearm safety rules and make sure your target area and everything around it is safe. It may be useful in a true combat situation but I feel it has limited use otherwise due to safety concerns. I ended up going with a vector 23 and am very happy with it.

 

[Sogan]

I have a Radius, it has been repaired once. The only issue is it is mounted on the gun, so you have to point your (loaded) gun at what you want to range...so you have to make sure you are following the firearm safety rules and make sure your target area and everything around it is safe. It may be useful in a true combat situation but I feel it has limited use otherwise due to safety concerns. I ended up going with a vector 23 and am very happy with it.

What was the issue you had repaired? I’ve heard Silencerco can repair some issue and tells you you’re SOL on others. Without a current production model to replace it with its kind of a gamble

I feel like that’s a limited issue for me anyways. I’m not pointing my gun at anything I don’t want to shoot already. So if I’m aiming at it, I want the right yardage so I don’t miss. Unless you are using your scope as your binoculars? Which I wouldn’t recommend. That’s similar to having a thermal only on your gun and swinging it all around 360 degrees to see stuff…so I bought a spotter lol