Rifle not coming up level

[Andyman562]

So let me start off saying I’m new to bolt action guns... built a couple 1911s but never a rifle.

Today I was putting together my brand new Bergara BMP 6.5 creed.
Other add ons:
419 Hellfire Muzzle Brake
419 20 MOA scope base
Harris 6-9 bipod
Vortex Precision Match Rings 1.26”
Vortex Viper PST gen 2 5-25 MRAD
Defender caps
Vortex level

Now the problem,

Mounted the bipod to assist level the gun. Raised the rear and leveled off the rear of the stock.
I mounted the 419 base and things started to come up uneven. In the pictures, I made the base level and then took a picture to show the stock uneven. Tried loosening and retighten and adjust to match but once I torque down to 15 it comes up with the same results.

I’m also getting the rear of the base uneven to the front of the base. Hard to see in the pictures but I was too eager to mount everything.

Is this an issue or am I making things more complicated then it should be?

 

[Hobo Hilton]

When you bring it up to your shoulder, like you are going to fire........ What does the level say?

Hobo

 

[Andyman562]

When I make the chassis level, the base isn’t and vice versa.
I should add, it’s a Harris S-BRM bipod.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Having the top of the rail level match the chassis does not matter.

 

[wade2big]

Yes you are overcompilicating everything.

 

[Dthomas3523]

You’ll almost never have an action and chassis mate up perfectly level to one another.

Pick one to be your control level (I use top of pic rail), then use that level to level your reticle. Then use the level reticle to put a tube mounted level if you actually use a level to shoot.

 

[TheGerman]

Unless your body and head position are always level to the earth when shooting....why level your optic to it?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Unless your body and head position are always level to the earth when shooting....why level your optic to it?

Cause gravity is dictated by the earth and that’s the only constant you have?

 

[Scotts556]

Unless your body and head position are always level to the earth when shooting....why level your optic to it?

So when you make adjustments, they track vertically with the fall of gravity..... The thing that makes bullets drop? But you do you bubba. I guess not having you bullet drop track properly is cool.

Scott

 

[Andyman562]

Thanks for the replies and glad I’m over complicating things!
Like I said I was too eager and continued to mount everything earlier. Took the level reading I got from mid base to find my level to set on the barrel level; and then I used that to set the level on the zero stop on the scope after removing the turret.

 

[TheGerman]

Cause gravity is dictated by the earth and that’s the only constant you have?

Yes, that.

Scott up there apparently didn't understand me.

I'm saying why bother to line the optic up to the rail when you're head position nor body will line up with it perfectly when you shoot.

Line up the reticle with the level plane while you are behind the gun in your natural position that you will be shooting in. Having it level to the rail/action is meaningless.

 

[Bradu]

Cause gravity is dictated by the earth and that’s the only constant you have?

So when you make adjustments, they track vertically with the fall of gravity..... The thing that makes bullets drop? But you do you bubba. I guess not having you bullet drop track properly is cool.

Scott

Pretty sure he's saying that most people cant the gun slightly when shouldering a rifle an to set the scope up level for your natural position such as this post describes.

 

[Dthomas3523]

You misunderstood me.

I'm saying why bother to line the optic up to the rail when you're head position nor body will line up with it perfectly when you shoot.

Line up the reticle with the level plane while you are behind the gun in your natural position that you will be shooting in. Having it level to the rail/action is meaningless.

6 of one and half dozen of the other.

You’d have to shoulder the rifle exactly the same way in every position to make leveling the reticle to the body.

I may not shoulder the rifle the same in prone, modified prone, positional, etc etc.

Some positions I may have the butt in the shoulder pocket and others I may have it closer to my collar bone/center.

I may be resting the weight of my head on the stock and I may not, depending how long I’ll be in position.

So, I set the rifle up completely neutral and let my eyes tell me when the reticle is level.

(I also don’t cant the rifle that much naturally)

 

[Andyman562]

Here’s a picture of it complete. Don’t mind my sons hot wheels lol

 

[Scotts556]

You misunderstood me.

I'm saying why bother to line the optic up to the rail when you're head position nor body will line up with it perfectly when you shoot.

Line up the reticle with the level plane while you are behind the gun in your natural position that you will be shooting in. Having it level to the rail/action is meaningless.

Actually miss alignment with the scope rail/action on the vertical plane leads to some funky things happening down range. While a few degrees dont matter, Depending on how far you cant your rifle you may end up with some offset left or right with POA/POI. Ever seen someone shoot urban prone with a AR? holding the rifle 90 degrees left or rifle leads to inches of offset on your POA/POI. Granted that is a exaggerated example. But it proves the point.

Scott

 

[Bradu]

Actually miss alignment with the scope rail/action on the vertical plane leads to some funky things happening down range. While a few degrees dont matter, Depending on how far you cant your rifle you may end up with some offset left or right with POA/POI. Ever seen someone shoot urban prone with a AR? holding the rifle 90 degrees left or rifle leads to inches of offset on your POA/POI. Granted that is a exaggerated example. But it proves the point.

Scott

The difference is usually a few degrees which is hardly worth accounting for. Even if it was enough to make a difference, there is an offset in the ballistic calculator.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Actually miss alignment with the scope rail/action on the vertical plane leads to some funky things happening down range. While a few degrees dont matter, Depending on how far you cant your rifle you may end up with some offset left or right with POA/POI. Ever seen someone shoot urban prone with a AR? holding the rifle 90 degrees left or rifle leads to inches of offset on your POA/POI. Granted that is a exaggerated example. But it proves the point.

Scott

Bad example. Rifle zero’d at zero or close to zero’d will obvious be off at a 90deg.

There’s nothing wrong with leveling an optic to a person’s natural cant as long as it’s a consistent cant in most or all positions.

 

[TheGerman]

All the optic needs to be while shooting, is level to the ground plane because that is how gravity is going to effect the round and how your adjustments/holds are going to be made on the reticle. Cant will skew that.

So its irrelevant as to what position you end up shooting the gun in. Is it canted or is it level? It's that simple. Your rifle's action or rail being level to the ground/gravity level are irrelevant as the only thing that matters is how level your reticle is to it. If you somehow want to shoot your rifle with the action 90 degrees to the deck, yet have the reticle perfectly level to gravity, you're scope will track and perform perfectly. The bullet doesn't know or care how your barrel is rotated in relation to the action/rail when being shot.

If you get behind the gun and have the optic reticle aligned perfectly with the action and/or rail and the reticle is canted 15 degrees when shoulder it in your NPOA; what good is that? All you're going to do is fight the gun and get horrible recoil management.

Yes, having your rifle in a position with a heavy cant will effect how it shoots due to the reticle also rotating with the cant on the gun. Example of this is using carbines with a RDS and shooting them under vehicles.

If you level it to your prone position, will it be 100% perfect kneeling or off a barricade? Probably not. But you check your reticle at every position and chances are positioning it to you in whatever position you shoot the most will give you the smallest need for adjustment from position to position.

Also, if you can't tell what a 5 or 10+ degree cant looks like by looking at the reticle, I don't know what to tell you.