Rifle set up, grip and length of pull

[Mormegil87]

Looking for some help with setting up my rifle for proper length of pull. I have an AXMC that I have set perfectly for me l. However I recently put together a custom build in a Manners Stock and shot it in a match. I really like the gun but can't seem to find the proper grip and I am suspecting it's a length of pull issue. Does anyone have pics/vidoe of what the proper grip on a Manners/McMillan stock should look like?

 

[Olen_4504]

The way i've done it - based on Phil Velayo teachings.

put your trigger "arm" at a 90 degree angle.

place butt of rifle in the crux where your arm bends.

Phil suggests the tip of your trigger finger should basically be able to wrap across the FRONT of the trigger guard. (so a fair ways past the actual trigger)

this will allow you to get a good 90 degree (ish) finger and straight back trigger pull.



i wouldn't say this is the ONLY way to do it. but it works well for me.

i used to set my rifle up the same way - but my trigger finger would just reach the trigger - as opposed to slightly past it up to the front of the trigger guard.

using the above method, i had to shorten my LOP. which allowed me to get more squared up behind the rifle with the butt of the gun more at my collar bone/chin. i can put way more forward pressure on the gun without disturbing the crosshairs much.

as far as the grip - most shoot thumb on the same side as opposed to wrapping it around.

just find something that's comfortable and that you can be consistent at and that has minimal impact on crosshair movement when pulling the trigger

 

[LH_Gina]

My problem has always been being able to reach the trigger while still having my hand on the grip. My LOP was way off as well as it turned out. I thought because I'm tall for a girl, that my LOP would be 13.5" but it's definitely shorter. Like 13" at the longest. Maybe even a little closer to 12.75".

I like Phillip's explanation for measuring though.

 

[Mormegil87]

My problem has always been being able to reach the trigger while still having my hand on the grip. My LOP was way off as well as it turned out. I thought because I'm tall for a girl, that my LOP would be 13.5" but it's definitely shorter. Like 13" at the longest. Maybe even a little closer to 12.75".

I like Phillip's explanation for measuring though.

Your interview on the Precision Rifle Channel Podcast got me to go back and measure everything. I can grip the stock but their is a gap between the stock and my fingers/palm and that's what worrying me versus with my MC everything seems just right.

 

[LH_Gina]

Your interview on the Precision Rifle Channel Podcast got me to go back and measure everything. I can grip the stock but their is a gap between the stock and my fingers/palm and that's what worrying me versus with my MC everything seems just right.

I'd be happy to sell you an A-10. LOL! In all seriousness we pulled that grip forward to close that gap up.

 

[M113A3]

I am setting up a new chassis and started with the crook of the arm but shorten it up as Frank spoke about so you can easily have you trigger finger at 90 degrees. This was my starting point which I found I needed to adjust it a bit once I was prone.

BTW it will also depend on where the but of the rifle is... I am trying to get it as close to center as possible... my current issue is the geometry of the Whiskey 3 Gen 6 cheek piece does not fit my face comfortably, If anyone has a suggestion for a mod than would be great.

Best of luck.

 

[Mormegil87]

Does anyone or even @Lowlight have a pic of how the firing hand grip should look like on a "traditional" style stock? I watched some of the online training vids, even some of the older ones and had a tough time finding a good angle.

 

[Lowlight]

I found a couple of images of some decent ones

The thumb over the top, vs the thumb aligned

Comparing the images I tend to choke up more vs the top image.

this is a bit closer

Is this what you all are looking for ?

 

[Mormegil87]

Yes thank you. I have a slight gap between my knuckles/palms abd the stock when I'm running a 90* trigger finger

 

[Mormegil87]

@Lowlight The area circled isn't touching the grip when I'm 90* on the trigger.

 

[Rover31]

This topic has been super interesting to me as I have gotten comments from prople telling me my lop is too short. I have always preffered a short lop not sure why just have...

@LH_Gina this A10 is of interest to me for my daughter and her lop,
I called Macmillan and had the stock specs sent to me.
The A10 is still at a 13in lop, any chance to get that a 1/2in shorter? We still looking at all options chassis or stock...

On another aspect of this discussion, looks like another spec we need to know on stocks/chassis is the trigger to grip distance. Would be somewhat hard to measure on a traditional stock. What would we pick as the measurement point?

 

[LH_Gina]

This topic has been super interesting to me as I have gotten comments from prople telling me my lop is too short. I have always preffered a short lop not sure why just have...

@LH_Gina this A10 is of interest to me for my daughter and her lop,
I called Macmillan and had the stock specs sent to me.
The A10 is still at a 13in lop, any chance to get that a 1/2in shorter? We still looking at all options chassis or stock...

On another aspect of this discussion, looks like another spec we need to know on stocks/chassis is the trigger to grip distance. Would be somewhat hard to measure on a traditional stock. What would we pick as the measurement point?

If you were sent specs, it's most likely what the stock comes out of the mold as. We can get the A-10 down to 11.75" with a decelerator pad (fixed LOP) or 12" with a spacer system.

 

[Geno C.]

Looking for some help with setting up my rifle for proper length of pull. I have an AXMC that I have set perfectly for me l. However I recently put together a custom build in a Manners Stock and shot it in a match. I really like the gun but can't seem to find the proper grip and I am suspecting it's a length of pull issue. Does anyone have pics/vidoe of what the proper grip on a Manners/McMillan stock should look like?

I’ve got a couple traditional type stocks with adjustable lop if you want to try them out and see if the lop is the issue

 

[Mormegil87]

@Geno C. Thanks for the offer. I sent the manners in to get it shortened. If it.comes back and Im still having issues, I'll hit you up.

 

[Rover31]

Maybe we need more than lop info, like these two pics.
Trigger to midpoint of grip and then with “non-vertical” grips the angle (in green).
Thoughts?

 

[MarinePMI]

The way i've done it - based on Phil Velayo teachings.

put your trigger "arm" at a 90 degree angle.

place butt of rifle in the crux where your arm bends.

Phil suggests the tip of your trigger finger should basically be able to wrap across the FRONT of the trigger guard. (so a fair ways past the actual trigger)

this will allow you to get a good 90 degree (ish) finger and straight back trigger pull.



i wouldn't say this is the ONLY way to do it. but it works well for me.

i used to set my rifle up the same way - but my trigger finger would just reach the trigger - as opposed to slightly past it up to the front of the trigger guard.

using the above method, i had to shorten my LOP. which allowed me to get more squared up behind the rifle with the butt of the gun more at my collar bone/chin. i can put way more forward pressure on the gun without disturbing the crosshairs much.

as far as the grip - most shoot thumb on the same side as opposed to wrapping it around.

just find something that's comfortable and that you can be consistent at and that has minimal impact on crosshair movement when pulling the trigger

IME, this method is what is used to get close, but generally, for precision tactical rifle, it's 1/2" to 1" shorter. The above method was the standard for when positional iron sight shooting was done, and a sling was used that forced a shooter to rotate their body off to one side. This increases the length of pull. Think of the stock as the long leg of a scalene triangle, from the buttplate to the trigger. The longer the long leg of the triangle (due to body angling off from the rifle), the longer the two other legs have to be (or shorter as the case may be). With precision tactical rifle we are now striving for a right angle triangle (since we're attempting to "square up" on the rifle for better recoil management). This shorter longer leg, means the other two legs (our forearm and upper arm/shoulder) will change where the finger intersects the long leg of the triangle. Generally speaking, it's shorter than the "buttplate inside the crook of the arm, measured to the middle of the last pad of the index finger" measurement. This same issue is present with shotgun shooting, and so, sometimes I wonder if a rocker pad of some sort is also in order (a convex profile, vice flat, to allow the stock to rock vertically, as the angle to the target changes elevation). Or, as our position changes (as the case would be for precision rifle) and alters where (vertically) the stock contacts the shoulder.

This change in "standard" length is also (I believe) why we're also seeing issues with where the hand lays on the stock (i.e. where the palm swell is located), and why some feel their palm/grip) isn't fully engaged with the grip. Just changing the LOP and angle at which we are mounting the rifle, is also altering where that grip/palm swell should be anatomically. Manufacturers just haven't caught up yet, except maybe MDT, with their adjustable (front to rear) grip.

JMTCW...

 

[insidetheten]

I was listening to one of Franks podcasts today and I believe he mentioned that he made a video demonstrating Rifle and LOP set up, but I cant find the video. If it is in the upgrade training section, then I'm gonna upgrade.

 

[Mormegil87]

I believe it is. I've watched it a couple of times.

 

[water_au]

I've been playing with my lop lately and took 2 spacers out of my krg stock and man it feels weird I'm not climbing over the gun to see out of the scope etc but my arm feels at a weird angle with my wrists i think I'm on the level of the pics frank posted but being new to it it's a weird feeling like my trigger hand can't pull the rifle I to my shoulder. Cant explain it.