Rifle strewing sideways - what is my fault?

[Jayjay1]

Hello guys,
sometimes I can make three shots in one group, touching each other at 100meters, but the fourth or the fifth is off to the side.
In a 10 shot group 3 or 4 fly sideways.
The groups open up to 1.5" with the flyers, when I want them to be .5".
While aiming I see my rifle (my crosshairs) commuting sideways.

What am I doing wrong?

Rifle is a Tikka T3x CTR 24" in 6.5 CM.
Did bed it with epoxy and freed the barrel.
Scope is a Steiner X7i 4-28x56.
Bipod is a cheap Harris.
Buttstock rests on a sand bag.
Ammo is my own loads, all in 140gr. area (Lapua Scenar, Hornady ELD Match and others).
I´m pretty sure it isn´t the ammo.

Maybe it´s me, but another very good rifle shooter had the same picture, so....

Should I try lighter and faster bullets with the long barrel, to reduce the bullet´s time inside?
I´m not happy with the bipod either, often feeling like I have always to press it into one or the other direction and am shooting under tension.
May that be the issue?
Or do you guys think of something totally different?

Any help appreciated.

Cheers,
Jo

 

[gunsnjeeps]

While aiming I see my rifle (my crosshairs) commuting sideways.

To me that sounds like position not gun or ammo. I'd bet it's positional where you are either pushing with your shoulder or pulling the rifle with your trigger pull. Have you shot fore end bagged also to eliminate the bipod? Are the shots to the same side? Does the bipod love on the rifle?

 

[Jayjay1]

Pushing or pulling might be, I do both.
I´m pushing with my shoulder into the rifle, while my shooting hand pulls a bit backwards.
Support hand is for positioning only.

I will try it with bagging the forend, good idea.

Shots are to the left and to right I guess, will watch that next time.

What do you mean with "Does the bipod love on the rifle"?



Thanks for your response!

 

[ShtrRdy]

You need to strive for a "Natural" Point of Aim. This is when you are totally relaxed and the rifle is pointing at the target exactly. The way to test this is to get into position and aim the rifle like you're ready to break the shot. Now close your eyes and go through a few breathing cycles while feeling your body relax. Then open your eyes and check if the crosshairs are still on target. If they are not then move the rifle AND your body to obtain a position that is more relaxed. Then repeat the test.

 

[FN-Whitney]

Focus on your trigger finger and make sure you are not slapping the trigger. When you dry fire pin the trigger to the rear and see if the reticle moves when it brakes.

 

[Dthomas3523]

If you’re seeing the reticle wanting to move sideways while you’re aiming, it’s like a bad natural point of aim. The rifle is settling back to the natural point of aim and that’s why the crosshairs are moving.

If the crosshairs aren’t moving when you let the pressure off the gun, then it’s typically a problem with your trigger pull (horizontal error is typically trigger and vertical is breathing, again when using a proper natural point of aim).

If you’re right handed and rounds are going left, you’re pulling the trigger right, if the rounds are going right, you’re pulling the trigger left.

But again, if you are already seeing the crosshairs moving and you’re muscling them back, it’s a natural point of aim issue.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Also, if “another good shooter” is having same issue, they need to work on the same thing.

 

[Jayjay1]

Thanks guys,
very good infos and advices.

I will try that.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Should have been "move on the rifle".

Just to eliminate pushing the rifle into a position that would bind the bipod into a position but not be stable.

 

[Jayjay1]

Should have been "move on the rifle".

Just to eliminate pushing the rifle into a position that would bind the bipod into a position but not be stable.

Well, that sounds good, but how?

 

[b6graham]

natural point of aim...and ditch the harris for good measure

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Does the bipod wiggle? Is it stable, when you open it and rest the rifle on the bipod and a bag or the stock is it solid or does it flop any? If up on the legs do they flex, bend, bow, etc.? The easy way to eliminate the bipod is a rest or front bags.

Seeing the crosshairs move is an indication of either you moving the rifle or the rifle not being properly supported. I shoot more sling than bipod, but to me eliminating the bipod from the equation is the easiest and first step.

 

[RTH1800]

Obviously the old commuting CH deal. ?

 

[RTH1800]

Obviously the old commuting CH deal. ?

 

[craig24680]

I have this same issue, I'll be using some tips next time I go out.
Thanks

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Any resolution to this problem?

 

[Jayjay1]

Well, not really at this point.
Cleaned the rifle and tried to follow the advices, the result was so-so.
One decent 3 shot - group with Lapua Scenar 139gr. finally, repeated once, around .4 to .5 inches.
This would be all I want, unfortunately I had not those result with some higher BC bullets (Hornady 140 and 147 ELD-M).
But I am more optimistic now.

Testing around and thinking about it.

I think I´ll have to backup my loads a bit.
Am shooting some 140 to 147gr. bullets at the limits, a lot of motion in the coach, the stock and the barrel are lightweight, so.

Will try some smoother loads and see if this helps.

And I ordered a Pica-Rail so that I can mount the Atlas Bipod from my AR15 on the Tikka.
The fixed Harris I have, I think it is a clone, is always a bit uneven so that I have to invest some pressure to the left, to get it flat.

Step-by-step, or work in progress I guess.

Cheers!

 

[Centuriator]

What is "strewing" ... ?

 

[lawofsavage]

I’m definitely not a trainer and not qualified to be one but I think if you’ve tried everything you know to try and the problem hasn’t been fixed, I would: (1) take a class from a good instructor, (2) buy a scope cam so you can see where the reticle is going during and after your trigger presses, and (3) have your bud take some videos of you so you can see what you look like.

 

[ShtrRdy]

What is "strewing" ... ?

I think he is referring to horizontal stringing.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

You need to strive for a "Natural" Point of Aim. This is when you are totally relaxed and the rifle is pointing at the target exactly. The way to test this is to get into position and aim the rifle like you're ready to break the shot. Now close your eyes and go through a few breathing cycles while feeling your body relax. Then open your eyes and check if the crosshairs are still on target. If they are not then move the rifle AND your body to obtain a position that is more relaxed. Then repeat the test.

This is some of the best advice an experienced shooter gave me when I started precision shooting.

 

[drew_235]

And I ordered a Pica-Rail so that I can mount the Atlas Bipod from my AR15 on the Tikka.
The fixed Harris I have, I think it is a clone, is always a bit uneven so that I have to invest some pressure to the left, to get it flat.

Step-by-step, or work in progress I guess.

Cheers!

While I agree with the superb post regarding natural point of aim, replacing the bipod that forces you to put pressure on one side by twisting the rifle (if I'm reading your post correctly) will probably immediately change things for the better. You could confirm this by ditching the imitation Harris for a front bag or bench rest support.

 

[Jayjay1]

Thanks for your response, that is definetely on my list next time I hit to the range.
Am hoping I will have mounted the Atlas BT10 already then.

Another thing I´m thinking about is the trigger and trigger control.
Issues in that compartment would explain a horizontal spreading too, I guess.

I´ve screwed the resistance down, so the trigger pull is not much, but it has no travel at all, what I´m used to from my other guns.
This trigger stands "strong" until it brakes immediately.
That irritated me in the beginning, but I try to get used to it, though I struggle a bit when I was shooting one or more of my other guns.
I´m running a Timney two stage trigger in my AR which I like a lot.

Do you think, keeping in mind that the Tikka´s factory trigger isn´t bad at all, a trigger change might help?

Did you guys change the trigger in your Tikkas?

 

[lash]

You need to get control of your fundamentals before changing more equipment. Chasing equipment is rarely the solution in these cases. Fixing your fundamental approach and position for each shot is a solution.

One thing you said caught my attention. When talking about your bipod, you mention the reticle not being flat. That may or may not be a bipod Issue. Yes, you should replace the cheap Harris clone with a real bipod, but if you still find yourself having to force the reticle to be horizontal, then you need to look at you scope and it’s natural level to your position.

Report back to us regarding your results next time and we can discuss this more if needed.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Are you shooting factory ammo or reloads?

If factory, stop changing brands. Find one lot of one brand and stick with it for a while until you can figure out what the issue is.

 

[Precision Underground]

Regarding NPA- IMO it should be where the rifle is pointing when you are pulling straight in to a relaxed shoulder(relaxed entire body). Your bicep should be the only active muscle. ETA- and depending on how endowed your belly is maybe some muscles in your back to hold yourself up.

If you aren’t connecting the rifle to you with your bicep you are either shouldering it by leaning into it, which some incorrectly call “loading the bipod” . Or you are doing some form of free recoil where the rifle is sitting on a rest and you are just pulling the trigger. Neither of these options are good for staying on target through the recoil cycle.

You can get away with not pulling into your shoulder with a braked or light recoiling rifle but as soon as you step up to something that moves when the trigger is pulled the gun will jump all over the place.

 

[Jayjay1]

One thing you said caught my attention. When talking about your bipod, you mention the reticle not being flat. That may or may not be a bipod Issue. Yes, you should replace the cheap Harris clone with a real bipod, but if you still find yourself having to force the reticle to be horizontal, then you need to look at you scope and it’s natural level to your position.

Hey lash,
I wouldn´t say that there is no issue with my fundamentals.
I´m a shooter for a pretty long time now, BUT with rifles it was enough to hit the 10 in the past, and that means placing your shots into a 2" circle at 100meters.
To do so to gain groups under .5 MOA might be another level.
And here I´m at the beginning, maybe you are right.
But to proof that point, I asked a shooter at my club, who is a real rifleman (when I was more in pistols) , not so much a benchrest guy, but a very good "offhand" shooter and an experienced hunter.
He shoots groups with his Tikka Lite in 8x57IS, which I wish I would with my CTR in 6.5CM.
His groups with my rifle were´nt much better - if they were at all - than mine.

But for the scope, I´m pretty sure, that isn´t the issue.
I´ve used a Wheeler bubble level tool to mount it and am very confident, that I can exclude that source of error.

Actually it might be a summary of some things coming together, the shooter, the rifle set up and maybe the ammo.
For the last point I will answer to Minnesota Mulish´s insertion right now.

Cheers!

 

[Jayjay1]

Are you shooting factory ammo or reloads?

Hey MM,
I´m shooting my own loads, being a reloader for over 20 years now, normally knowing what I´m doing, but never had to find a load for a rifle which is shooting so tight.

Honestly this opened up for me a new chapter in reloading, which I thought before this wouldn´t be possible.

Unitizing the primer holes, neck turning, unitzing the inner neck by using the LEE neck sizing collet die and so on, is a new world for me.

But I´m seeing the results in such consistent velocities which I´ve never had before.
Very exciting.

BUT on the other hand, it is a bit like the story of the chicken and the egg.
How can I find "the load", when I´m not able to shoot groups consistently under .5 MOA (which is my goal).
Is it me, is it the rifle set up or is it the load?

After testing some hundred rounds I see clear tendencies for some bullets to gain thighter groups, but it is a pita this way.

Because this whole theme drives me crazy - seeing other shooting tighter groups with their hunting rifles - I´m searching around a lot, and realized something yesterday on the PRB website.
Those guys are shooting the 140ish bullets in the 6.5CM between 2750 and 2850 fps, while I´m shooting mine between 2870 and almost up to 3000fps (well, I looked for the highest velocities I could get out of my system).
Because my combo is pretty lite, with the standard Tikka polymer stock and the original semi-barrel, there is a lot going on in the stick when shooting.
Like I said earlier, the rifle jumps always a bit.
So I will slow down the velocity with my next loads, to take a look what happens then.

Cheers!

 

[Jayjay1]

Regarding NPA- IMO it should be where the rifle is pointing when you are pulling straight in to a relaxed shoulder(relaxed entire body). Your bicep should be the only active muscle.

If you aren’t connecting the rifle to you with your bicep you are either shouldering it by leaning into it, which some incorrectly call “loading the bipod” . Or you are doing some form of free recoil where the rifle is sitting on a rest and you are just pulling the trigger. Neither of these options are good for staying on target through the recoil cycle.

You can get away with not pulling into your shoulder with a braked or light recoiling rifle but as soon as you step up to something that moves when the trigger is pulled the gun will jump all over the place.

Thanks for your input.

I´ve changed to shoot only prone a week ago, after realizing that the shooting bench in our club is not very stable.

"Relaxed position with the bicep being the only active muscle."

Interesting!
That are some points I´m cruising around.

Actually I find it very difficult to find a position behind the rifle where I´m totally relaxed.
Prone, my slightly erected chest has to rest somewhere, partial it does on my small sand bag, but partial my back muscles do some of that job, too.
I thought about getting me a bigger sand bag to rest on it, would that help?

In this position my neck muscles are in tension too, because I have to hold my head upright.
How can I avoid that?

Last but not least, the bicep muscle.
My shooting hand rests on the grip, as relaxed as possible, to get a smooth trigger finger.
Well, almost, I have to twist the rifle a bit against the bipod, like I said, but that will be fixed hopefully when I´m changing to the Atlas.
My support hand holds the sand bag to squeeze it for getting the right height.
I´m leaning with my shoulder into the rifle, to load the bipod, what might add some tension in the somewhat not-so-stiff original stock?

The rifle is jumping and the reticle looks elsewhere after the shot.

So when you write, the bicep is the only active muscle, what do you mean with that?
You are pulling the rifle back a bit, right?
With which hand, the shooting hand, the support hand or with both?
If so with the support hand, where do you hold on with it?


A lot of great info here, thanks to all of you guys!

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

If possible, the next time you hit the range, bring a shooting buddy and have them video you while you are shooting. Then, watch it and you may even want to post it here so that we can watch your form.

Another thing you could try is to subscribe to Frank's online library and watch some of his videos.

 

[Precision Underground]

Thanks for your input.

I´ve changed to shoot only prone a week ago, after realizing that the shooting bench in our club is not very stable.

"Relaxed position with the bicep being the only active muscle."

Interesting!
That are some points I´m cruising around.

Actually I find it very difficult to find a position behind the rifle where I´m totally relaxed.
Prone, my slightly erected chest has to rest somewhere, partial it does on my small sand bag, but partial my back muscles do some of that job, too.
I thought about getting me a bigger sand bag to rest on it, would that help?

In this position my neck muscles are in tension too, because I have to hold my head upright.
How can I avoid that?

Last but not least, the bicep muscle.
My shooting hand rests on the grip, as relaxed as possible, to get a smooth trigger finger.
Well, almost, I have to twist the rifle a bit against the bipod, like I said, but that will be fixed hopefully when I´m changing to the Atlas.
My support hand holds the sand bag to squeeze it for getting the right height.
I´m leaning with my shoulder into the rifle, to load the bipod, what might add some tension in the somewhat not-so-stiff original stock?

The rifle is jumping and the reticle looks elsewhere after the shot.

So when you write, the bicep is the only active muscle, what do you mean with that?
You are pulling the rifle back a bit, right?
With which hand, the shooting hand, the support hand or with both?
If so with the support hand, where do you hold on with it?


A lot of great info here, thanks to all of you guys!

Yes bicep only is a bit oversimplified. I edited my post to address that. I do use my back muscles to stay high enough to address the rifle. As for the neck, yes you need enough muscle activity to keep your head from rolling off the stock but you are still relaxed overall. If you are in a good position you should not get a crick in your neck. Your head will be balanced rather than “held up”.

The big one is your strong hand. IMO the last three fingers on the hand need to pull, fairly hard, straight into a relaxed shoulder. That is what connects the rifle to you. If you don’t do this the rifle is going to hop all over if there is any recoil to speak of. I actually find it easier to isolate my trigger finger while doing this. Just make sure your finger is 90 degrees on the trigger.

There is a recent thread on recoil management that I posted a bunch of info in. Search my screen name and “recoil” and it will prob pop up. Disclaimer-I am not a professional instructor, I have just spent a lot of time digging into this and used to teach golf so I naturally want to over analyze it and talk about it lol.

 

[Precision Underground]

And I agree there is a lot of good info in Franks online training. It’s not magic, you still have to grind and translate words into real world positions and feels. But watch it, digest it, try it, watch it again, try it again, repeat. Spend a lot of time at home practicing getting into the correct positions.

 

[Jayjay1]

I´m kneeling on the ground, my forehead is touching the floor, my arms are straight up into the direction of my pc´s screen.
Thanks a lot for your support!

So you are pulling back with your shooting hand, I was pushing the rifle into the bipod.
Maybe this might be a big step forward for me.

Just asking because I´ve learned somewhat with pistols:
Normaly you should hold your shooting / strong hand as relaxed as possible to have your trigger finger as relaxed as possible, so that it don´t freeze.
Is that different with rifles?

 

[Precision Underground]

I´m kneeling on the ground, my forehead is touching the floor, my arms are straight up into the direction of my pc´s screen.
Thanks a lot for your support!

So you are pulling back with your shooting hand, I was pushing the rifle into the bipod.
Maybe this might be a big step forward for me.

Just asking because I´ve learned somewhat with pistols:
Normaly you should hold your shooting / strong hand as relaxed as possible to have your trigger finger as relaxed as possible, so that it don´t freeze.
Is that different with rifles?

Yes I am pulling fairly hard with the shooting hand. Pushing into the rifle with your shoulder is bad news. Connect yourself to the ground and then Connect the rifle to yourself. That puts you in a position to absorb recoil rather than reflect it back into the rifle.

 

[lawofsavage]

If the problem is npa, a lot of that can be fixed at home without having to fire live rounds imo. Frank’s videos are really good imo and I couldn’t recommend them more. Again, I’m not an instructor but I think it’s helpful to practice getting behind the rifle to where it’s quick And is repeatable. Just practice getting into position and then closing your eyes for 30 seconds to a minute. You should be able to hold that position comfortably for at least a minute without shaking or feeling muscle strain. . Then open your eyes. The reticle should be clear and full with no shadowing and it should still be centered on your target when you open your eyes.

Another thing, If you let another guy shoot it and his groups are the same and he normally shoots better groups with other rifles, see if he will let you shoot a few groups with his rifles to see how you do. It could always be ammo or something.

ETA: then once you have that down, add in some dry fires and running the Bolt to check to see if the reticle is staying put. You should be able to do this several minutes on end at least without feeling uncomfortable or muscle strain or needing to rebuild your position and the reticle should be still during all of this. Then move on to live fire and then all the recoil control stuff will come into play as well.

 

[Jayjay1]

Thanks guys,
I appreciate that very much.

I will send you a prayer when I´m just fraying holes in the future.


No, seriously, thank you a lot.

Cheers,
Jay

 

[ShtrRdy]

Hey Jay -- you asked about the Tikka Trigger. For me I like the Tikka trigger and those that are like it. But I can see where if you're use to a two stage trigger the Tikka might be a problem. So maybe you should find an aftermarket two stage trigger for your Tikka.

 

[lash]

Jay,
I surfed this thread again to catch up and there are a couple/few things to touch on as per my view from afar:

First is to reiterate or summarize the importance of not pushing into the stock. Loading the bipod is somewhat of a misnomer and does not mean ‘lean into the rifle to counteract recoil’. It simply means (in my opinion) to take the slack, if any, out of the bipod and eliminate forward-backward wobble.

Second is that the rearward pressure you place on the stock into your shoulder should be roughly equal to the weight of the rifle. This is per Frank’s instruction and is a guideline to get a feel for how the rifle is best shouldered. In addition, your position when prone or benched, or whenever otherwise positioned if possible, is ideally as square to the target as is possible. This is not the case in unsupported positional circumstances, but helps greatly when trying to shoot precision groups or targets.

Third is that it seems your knock-off bipod is doing you no favors. If you are applying any sort of lateral pressure to counteract directional push from the bipod, I can promise you that is affecting your shooting results - in a horizontal stringing shape.

And lastly, the possibility that the stock may be flexing and touching or influencing the barrel cannot be ignored. This doesn’t mean it is or it isn’t, but plastic stocks in general are not known for rigidity. Just something to consider and test to verify.

In conclusion, I applaud your tenacity and verve while trying to work this out. My comments are no comment on your ability nor capability as a shooter. I do not know you, so I am addressing your questions and attempting to offer answers based solely on my ability to read your responses.

I think that you’ll sort it out just fine. I see that you are already looking into stock options that may be more suited to your current intent.

 

[LawnMM]

How many stocks have you bedded?

 

[Jayjay1]

Hey guys,
first of all, you are all amazing!

I can´t remember when I´ve got such a lot help in any forum, and I´ve been in some, thank you all.

Honestly I´ve right now almost finished the second side of my paper, writing down all your infos and advices.
I will have to sort and clean it and will write my own training check list.
That´s some serious good stuff in here, as well as in the thread "Recoil management", where Precision Underground lead me to.

No doubt I´ve made a lot of mistakes, most of all in my shooting technique, but in my rifle setup and I guess in my load, too.

Thanks and shout out to you, helping me to get a better shooter without needing to, this is not self-evident nowadays.

Cheers,
Jay

 

[Jayjay1]

In conclusion, I applaud your tenacity and verve while trying to work this out. My comments are no comment on your ability nor capability as a shooter. I do not know you, so I am addressing your questions and attempting to offer answers based solely on my ability to read your responses.

Hey lash,
I will begin at the end of your post.

I´m used to be good in my shooting and testing around with my loads and my shooting ability in this new subject since a couple of weeks drives me nuts.

I knew that the original Tikka stock is not the stiffest and best that I will have to change it some times, but I thought it will do for a while, but now, after all that input, I´m thinking "waiting, for what?".
Also the rifle is really out of balance with that light stock and the 24" long barrel.
So now I will not only change the bipod, I will change the stock too.
I pretty much like the German Gun Stock stuff, but am a bit on a budget after buying the rifle and the optic.
And I would have to wait weeks or month for it, so the KRG Bravo seems to be a pretty good bet too, having all the features I seem to need, for a fairly good price.

And man, all that shooting technique stuff I have to change and to internalize, getting it right, that will take me a while for sure.
I can´t wait to work on it.

One thing I would to know about the trigger technique you guys are using.
I´ve learned to shoot over pistol precision training, building up the concentration, raising the pistol from a relaxed standing, the way of the gun with the "two-breath-technique", focusing on the front post and finally break the shot 3-4 seconds after the second exhale.

I´ve watched one of Frank´s videos where he is talking about breaking the shot right in the moment he finished breathing out, not later, if I understood him right.

When do you guys brake the shot?
Is there a special moment too?

 

[Jayjay1]

So maybe you should find an aftermarket two stage trigger for your Tikka.

Yes, that´s on my list and will happen in the near future.
But like I said I´m a bit on a budget and I think the bipod (and for that the stock) have to be first.

Thank you.

 

[Jayjay1]

How many stocks have you bedded?

This was my first time, but I will do my daughters .22lr. next.

 

[hlee]

I´ve watched one of Frank´s videos where he is talking about breaking the shot right in the moment he finished breathing out, not later, if I understood him right.

When do you guys brake the shot?
Is there a special moment too?

There is a momentary pause in your breathing as you get to the bottom of your exhale. At that moment, you are moving the least, and this is where you want to break the shot. With practice you can extend this pause, however, you don't want to stop breathing or hold your breath. Don't fight the reticle- it will settle down at the bottom of your breath. Set your NPA such that the reticle is on the spot you want to hit at the bottom of your breath. Breath normally. This can't be stressed enough. Holding your breath deprived your body of oxygen, reduces your relaxation, and will affect your vision. When the reticle settles on the point of aim- at the bottom of your breath- break the shot. You're not on the clock or in a rush, so if you miss the opportunity just wait for the next breath.

From the prone position, with proper NPA, using a decent bipod and rear bag, and a good relaxed position; you should be able to close your eyes, count to 10, open your eyes and have the rifle still exactly where you want to hit. (You can practice this in your house.) If not, you haven't found true NPA. Your "wobble zone" should be essentially zero, perhaps affected only by your heart rate.

 

[hereinaz]

If the rifle is bouncing under recoil so that you lose sight of the target, that looks like recoil management and natural point of aim issues.

The bipod could be a source of that but if it is the same shooting off a front sand bag, then it is most likely the two issues above with a mix of trigger control in there. A heavy trigger can induce lateral stringing. Another "good shooter" with a light trigger can hide poor trigger control with a light trigger.

Video yourself and watch what is happening. Posting it here will help.

 

[Jayjay1]

Thanks guys!

After 20 years of shooting (well, mostly handgun, but not only) this is a complete new chapter.
I´m excited and really have some work to do, building up my fundamentals and so on, will take some time for sure.

For now, I´ve ordered a KRG Bravo stock and will then mount my Atlas to it.
Meanwhile I will work on my technique.

Thanks for all your support,
Chapeau!

 

[Dthomas3523]

Regarding NPA- IMO it should be where the rifle is pointing when you are pulling straight in to a relaxed shoulder(relaxed entire body). Your bicep should be the only active muscle. ETA- and depending on how endowed your belly is maybe some muscles in your back to hold yourself up.

If you aren’t connecting the rifle to you with your bicep you are either shouldering it by leaning into it, which some incorrectly call “loading the bipod” . Or you are doing some form of free recoil where the rifle is sitting on a rest and you are just pulling the trigger. Neither of these options are good for staying on target through the recoil cycle.

You can get away with not pulling into your shoulder with a braked or light recoiling rifle but as soon as you step up to something that moves when the trigger is pulled the gun will jump all over the place.

Leaning into the rifle slightly without bicep pressure is definitely not “incorrect.”

Phil Velayo even has a video showing how he can let go of the rifle and remove his rear bag and the rifle is supported by slightly pressure pinching the rifle between his shoulder and bipod.

 

[Precision Underground]

Leaning into the rifle slightly without bicep pressure is definitely not “incorrect.”

Phil Velayo even has a video showing how he can let go of the rifle and remove his rear bag and the rifle is supported by slightly pressure pinching the rifle between his shoulder and bipod.

Leaning into the rifle is most definitely an incorrect way to connect the rifle to you IMO. What you are describing is addressing a rifle and having no slack in the bipod. Just because the rifle stays between your shoulder and the bipod doesn’t mean that is the means of connecting it to you or controlling recoil. Some people may think it is because they are shooting a braked 223 or 6mm and seeing hits. But give them something with actual recoil and it’s a different story. Ask me how I know.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Leaning into the rifle is most definitely an incorrect way to connect the rifle to you IMO. What you are describing is addressing a rifle and having no slack in the bipod. Just because the rifle stays between your shoulder and the bipod doesn’t mean that is the means of connecting it to you or controlling recoil. Some people may think it is because they are shooting a braked 223 or 6mm and seeing hits. But give them something with actual recoil and it’s a different story. Ask me how I know.

The currently taught way of addressing the rifle is to pull it into your shoulder and lean forward while up on your elbows. This lets your body fall into place and takes up all the movement and slack. Raising the bipod a couple notches helps this.


This is similar to your other suggestion of lowering the bipod and getting off your elbows.

Currently instruction recommends you get on your elbows and raise the bipod.

I’d suggest you invest in some modern instruction from someone like Frank, Phil, Caylen, etc.

You’ve been slowly advising older methods that have evolved within the last year or two.

 

[Dthomas3523]

For reference, here is the proper way to address the rifle: