Ring mark left on bullet from die?

[Boonechaser]

Wondering if anyone has ran across this and has a solution? Keep getting this ring mark on the bullet. I am not a complete newb but am not as experienced as some and I can’t figure this out. Tip is not getting squished so I don’t believe it’s bottoming out in the die. I’ve not Run across this problem before but this is the first time I’ve loaded ELD bullets.

Rundown of components

Redding competition 6.5 CM die set
Hornady 143 ELD-X bullet
.002 neck tension
New Lapua brass run through a .262 sizing mandrel and chamfered

 

[FLIGHT762]

A well known issue. Get the Hornady ELD seating stem for your seating die. Pick the stem for the exact bullet your using.

Individual Dies & Accessories - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Individual Dies & Accessories Custom Bullet Seating Stems These seating stems are designed to fit Hornady® Custom Grade™ Dies and are machined to fit the profile of the A-M...

www.hornady.com

**Edit** I misread your seating die. Thought it was a Hornady. Contact Redding about a different seating stem.

 

[JS/]

Wow! That is a pretty significant mark. Contact Redding. They will help you. Years ago I had a ring left from a Redding Comp seater for .223 loading, and I sent the seater in for some grinding/polishing. That helped a lot.

 

[Precision Underground]

You’ve either got way to much neck tension/friction or a seriously compressed load. Yes a different stem will help but IMO you need to figure out why it’s making that much of a mark to start with.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Can’t see how it isn’t a compressed load, with OP standing on the press handle, to get that much deformation. That’s nuts.

Or potentially neck tension waaaaay too tight.

ETA: Dang it @Precision Underground you got your reply in 10 seconds faster and made me look the pedant

 

[Im2bent]

That's not a ring that's serious deformation. How much force to seat the bullet?

 

[Steel head]

You’ve either got way to much neck tension/friction or a seriously compressed load. Yes a different stem will help but IMO you need to figure out why it’s making that much of a mark to start with.

This
Way too much force seating the bullet.

 

[Boonechaser]

I ran a .262 mandrel in the new brass and the bullets are .264 wouldnt that be .002 neck tension? Also as far as a compressed load, it does it on a dummy round, too (no powder.
as far as pressure I’m using, it doesn’t seem bad at all and only enough to get the bullet seated to depth.

 

[whatsupdoc]

I ran a .262 mandrel in the new brass and the bullets are .264 wouldnt that be .002 neck tension? Also as far as a compressed load, it does it on a dummy round, too (no powder.
as far as pressure I’m using, it doesn’t seem bad at all and only enough to get the bullet seated to depth.

You probably did not chamfer the inside of the neck good enough.

 

[Cynical]

neck lube?

 

[Halfnutz]

I ran a .262 mandrel in the new brass and the bullets are .264 wouldnt that be .002 neck tension? Also as far as a compressed load, it does it on a dummy round, too (no powder.
as far as pressure I’m using, it doesn’t seem bad at all and only enough to get the bullet seated to depth.

Have to account for spring back as well. Non annealed will potentially be even more.

Also get a VLD seater. I had marks on some Berger Hybrids before switching my Wilson seater, but not near that bad. Pin gages are your friend. .260 through .264 in .001 increments should be plenty to diagnose. They come in + or -, get the minus.

VLD Chamfer and lube won't hurt either. I like the Redding dry neck lube and the ceramic balls for ease and convenience.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Yeah, per what others have already said above; That's not "marks", that's serious jacket/bullet core deformation. My guess is wayyyy too much neck tension, or compressed load.

I neck size (oh, the horror...) and handload using Wilson and/or custom built seating dies with an arbor press. I do get "marks" even when using VLD Stems, but they're in a totally different league from what your pics have indicated.

 

[Baron23]

Have to account for spring back as well. Non annealed will potentially be even more.

Also get a VLD seater. I had marks on some Berger Hybrids before switching my Wilson seater, but not near that bad. Pin gages are your friend. .260 through .264 in .001 increments should be plenty to diagnose. They come in + or -, get the minus.

VLD Chamfer and lube won't hurt either. I like the Redding dry neck lube and the ceramic balls for ease and convenience.

Why minus?

@308pirate, who knows something about this stuff, suggested I buy + and I did and seems to be working out well so far.

 

[Im2bent]

Have you verified the diameter of your mandrel?

 

[Steel head]

I ran a .262 mandrel in the new brass and the bullets are .264 wouldnt that be .002 neck tension? Also as far as a compressed load, it does it on a dummy round, too (no powder.
as far as pressure I’m using, it doesn’t seem bad at all and only enough to get the bullet seated to depth.

For new and often super tight brass I actually use a full bullet diameter mandrel and I still get 2-4 thou tension.

 

[Boonechaser]

Have you verified the diameter of your mandrel?

Yeah it’s definitely .262 that was the first thing that I checked.

 

[Boonechaser]

neck lube?

Yes

 

[ma smith]

Tagged for curiosity in how this turns out...

 

[Tchitcherine]

Resembles damage caused by over-tightened collet in RCBS or similar bullet puller die.

 

[Aftermath]

OP...have you actually fired any of those?

Is that why those are called 6.5 manbunz?

 

[Boonechaser]

OP...have you actually fired any of those?

Is that why those are called 6.5 manbunz?

Yes, I’ve shot some and doesn’t appear to affect accuracy. 1/4-3/8 moa at 100yds.

I always figured the ones that call them 6.5 manbunz are the same ones that drive jacked up pick ups and corvettes, just trying to over compensate…

 

[Aftermath]

Whew!!!

That leaves me out. I have an old, fairly stock, Dodge truck. A bone stock Chevy Spark. A mostly factory original Victory Kingpin and a completely tricked out JKUR.

But I don't have a 6.5 Manbunz.

I'd be curious if that little ring made any discernible accuracy difference at greater distance. Who knows? It might be sorta like that Dick Rutan stuff where it actually increases aerodynamic efficiency.

I've had some rings on VLD's before I swapped to the correct seater but I'm talking about more like a uniform scratch the full circumference near the tip. I just can't imagine being able to deform a bullet so much during the seating process. I know I'm not the only one wanting to know what's causing this.

 

[Halfnutz]

Why minus?

@308pirate, who knows something about this stuff, suggested I buy + and I did and seems to be working out well so far.

Example: a .263 pin will not go in a .263 hole. The minus .263 has a couple tenths or so for clearance. The plus is a couple tenths oversize.

 

[Schw15]

I've noticed with new lapua brass they seem to come very tight in the neck. I usually run them in my full length sizer die open them up and chamber a little more on the inside. I had this issues with redding dies and lapua brass I ended up screwing the seating die out more then normal. You can take your seating stem take a bullet in a drill with emery cloth wrapped around it and run it in your stem to open it up just a touch for that bullet.

 

[918v]

Too much friction in the neck. There are so many reasons. One thing, tho, it is harder to seat a bullet into a neck that was annealed after sizing than into a neck that was sized after annealing.

What I would do is open up the neck with a .265” mandrel, then size it down for .002” tension, and lube with graphite.

 

[Im2bent]

Uhhh there are people out there sizing BEFORE annealing?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I looked at those cases for almost a full minute thinking “the only ring I see is at the anneal line.

And it looked totally normal. Every picture. Even as I stared at it.

Then I happened to look at the boolit.

Holy crap, man, what are you seating that with??? A 20 ton press? A steamroller? Having Oprah sit on it!

For the love of all things holy…
Lube they neck and make sure your neck sizing button is right. And if you have to have Mongo pull the seating lever (Mongo like candy) at least put in a die stop!

Good lord!

Sirhr

 

[NighthawkCG]

Gonna ask a question just for clarity. When you say .262 Mandrel... you do mean mandrel and not bushing in the redding sizer die, right?

 

[Lawnboi]

New Lapua brass has a lot of friction in the neck from the factory anneal. I bet if your mandrel is stainless steel and you look at it, it’s galled to shit. I always brush after annealing because of this as well.
I havnt figured out the special recipe for virgin brass, but it so far has included a brushing and alot of lube on an expanding mandrel. The graphite lube dosnt stick to the annealed neck as well.

 

[Steel head]

I couldn’t resist!!!!

 

[918v]

Uhhh there are people out there sizing BEFORE annealing?

Uhhh, yes.

 

[alfmoonspace]

@Steel head maybe he’s grab his tip a little too tight?

 

[Im2bent]

Uhhh, yes.

Uhhh, why?

 

[918v]

Because that’s how factory brass is annealed. Maybe you missed it, but the OP is using new brass.

 

[n0glock]

I was getting a good ring on 140 6.5 ELD-M (not as bad as yours) with new Peterson brass, Imperial sizing wax on a q tip before the mandrel made it go away,

 

[alfmoonspace]

Still change the seating steam and make sure your not seating those bullets with a ton of force. Put some dry lube or whatever inside of your neck to with a mandrel and you should be gtg

 

[918v]

I was getting a good ring on 140 6.5 ELD-M (not as bad as yours) with new Peterson brass, Imperial sizing wax on a q tip before the mandrel made it go away,

So you put imperial in the neck before charging the case? Did you removed the lube prior to charging with powder or did you leave it in there?

 

[Threadcutter308]

I looked at those cases for almost a full minute thinking “the only ring I see is at the anneal line.

And it looked totally normal. Every picture. Even as I stared at it.

Then I happened to look at the boolit.

Holy crap, man, what are you seating that with??? A 20 ton press? A steamroller? Having Oprah sit on it!

For the love of all things holy…
Lube they neck and make sure your neck sizing button is right. And if you have to have Mongo pull the seating lever (Mongo like candy) at least put in a die stop!

Good lord!

Sirhr

 

[n0glock]

You are just putting a very little on a q tip then using it for several cases, then the mandrel, I can be a little ocd sometimes so yes I take a clean q tip to the inside of the case, remember you are using very little case lube, I also tried One Shot on a q tip, works almost as well and you don’t need to wipe it off.

 

[918v]

And then how’s the accuracy and velocity?

 

[n0glock]

I also took an Eld-m chucked one up in a cordless drill coated it in metal polish and polished the seater stem, made a difference but not as much as the lube in the case neck.

 

[n0glock]

Accuracy in approx 1/2” at 100 yards or as good as I can shoot, seems to be the same thing. I don’t chrono just shoot for dope so far. I could be doing this all wrong but it works for me.

 

[918v]

I think imperial is too slick for this application.

 

[smoothy8500]

And then how’s the accuracy and velocity?

He says 1/4 MOA @100, but wouldn’t the messed up projectiles show BC variability beyond 600yds?

 

[CK1.0]

He says 1/4 MOA @100, but wouldn’t the messed up projectiles show BC variability beyond 600yds?

Yes. Those suckers are f'ing crushed... don't need to work for NASA to know that probably hurts aerodynamic performance a bit.

 

[Doom]

Are you sure you haven't mixed seating stems with another caliber?

 

[NaciremaToirtap]

Uhhh, yes.

Uhhh, why?

 

[918v]

Several reasons. The primary one would be to maintain the same internal ballistics as with new brass.

 

[NaciremaToirtap]

Several reasons. The primary one would be to maintain the same internal ballistics as with new brass.

I have no idea what you’re talking about, but if you go do simple investigation, everybody anneals first

 

[Nemsis]

The only thing I can think of is maybe you have a 6mm seating stem in your die