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rl15 or varget
- Thread starter jasonahull
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Re: rl15 or varget
Can someone give a specific example, i.e. changes in velocity as temperature rises with Varget vs Reloader-15?
Can someone give a specific example, i.e. changes in velocity as temperature rises with Varget vs Reloader-15?
Re: rl15 or varget
I have great luck with Varget, but I also do with RL15. Varget doesn't seem to meter worth a hoot in my 550. I've polished, adjusted etc etc, and I still fight it., so I opt for RL15 right now. Altitudes I can't help ya with, but Vargets held true for me when I was usign it from 10 to 80 degrees and in between sitting in the sun etc. Great powder.
I have great luck with Varget, but I also do with RL15. Varget doesn't seem to meter worth a hoot in my 550. I've polished, adjusted etc etc, and I still fight it., so I opt for RL15 right now. Altitudes I can't help ya with, but Vargets held true for me when I was usign it from 10 to 80 degrees and in between sitting in the sun etc. Great powder.
Re: rl15 or varget
All powders are temp. sensitive some more than others, powder is just one factor, load density etc see Denton Bramwell papers www.snipershide.com/Pressure . I have shot Varget but do not have the data at hand. RL 15 Load 43.7 Win case I have a graph so here are my some of plots 40F=2645, 75F= 2675, 100F= 2696 about .7 Ft. per degree
All powders are temp. sensitive some more than others, powder is just one factor, load density etc see Denton Bramwell papers www.snipershide.com/Pressure . I have shot Varget but do not have the data at hand. RL 15 Load 43.7 Win case I have a graph so here are my some of plots 40F=2645, 75F= 2675, 100F= 2696 about .7 Ft. per degree
Re: rl15 or varget
Trying my first pound of varget for .223. I have a 550 also, and it seems to be throwing within +/-.20 grs. of the target weight. Would RL 15 do better? For Service Rifle practice, isn't this close enough?
Trying my first pound of varget for .223. I have a 550 also, and it seems to be throwing within +/-.20 grs. of the target weight. Would RL 15 do better? For Service Rifle practice, isn't this close enough?
Re: rl15 or varget
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gnfiter3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> isn't this close enough? </div></div>
There in lies the tricky part!
I don't like progressives for rifle rounds. Just me, but I don't.
You say practice rounds, but I guarantee that the more you practice, the more the "close enough" window will begin to shrink.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gnfiter3</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> isn't this close enough? </div></div>
There in lies the tricky part!
I don't like progressives for rifle rounds. Just me, but I don't.
You say practice rounds, but I guarantee that the more you practice, the more the "close enough" window will begin to shrink.
Re: rl15 or varget
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here in the desert, temperature can fluctuate greatly. I have shot my 308 at 40 degrees and 120 degrees, there is no substantial changes in the velocity. It runs around 3000 fps with the Varget. </div></div>
I shoot in the same desert environs as DesertHK. Noone ever mentions IMR (gasp-a non extreme powder!!). I shoot IMR4895 in my 308, 7-08 and 223's. I was curious about the whole temp stability issue, and looked back over my data books from when I shot my AR15 in Service Rifle class in the 40*-120* yearly cycle DHK spoke of. My winter 500yd zero was 1/2-1 moa different than my summer 500yd zero. That's stable enough for me.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here in the desert, temperature can fluctuate greatly. I have shot my 308 at 40 degrees and 120 degrees, there is no substantial changes in the velocity. It runs around 3000 fps with the Varget. </div></div>
I shoot in the same desert environs as DesertHK. Noone ever mentions IMR (gasp-a non extreme powder!!). I shoot IMR4895 in my 308, 7-08 and 223's. I was curious about the whole temp stability issue, and looked back over my data books from when I shot my AR15 in Service Rifle class in the 40*-120* yearly cycle DHK spoke of. My winter 500yd zero was 1/2-1 moa different than my summer 500yd zero. That's stable enough for me.....
Re: rl15 or varget
thanks for the input. i am shooting a 6.5x47 using rl15. i have heard it was stable. but some guys i know shooting the same say that the varget is better and cleans easier.
thanks for the input. i am shooting a 6.5x47 using rl15. i have heard it was stable. but some guys i know shooting the same say that the varget is better and cleans easier.
Re: rl15 or varget
If you are using the 6.5x47 H4350 might be well worth trying. At least thats one that a few of our guns have really liked. I use varget in my 6x47.
If you are using the 6.5x47 H4350 might be well worth trying. At least thats one that a few of our guns have really liked. I use varget in my 6x47.
Re: rl15 or varget
i did try h4350 but to get similar velocity it was compressed loads and didnt shoot as good as rl 15.
here is what i went with, berger 130 seated .010 in. with 37 grains of rl 15 cci450 primers i am getting 2980 fps out of a 28" barrel. would varget give me more or less veloicty and over all better performance?
(the m.v. is based off a drop chart not chrono.)
i did try h4350 but to get similar velocity it was compressed loads and didnt shoot as good as rl 15.
here is what i went with, berger 130 seated .010 in. with 37 grains of rl 15 cci450 primers i am getting 2980 fps out of a 28" barrel. would varget give me more or less veloicty and over all better performance?
(the m.v. is based off a drop chart not chrono.)
Re: rl15 or varget
Varget is very hard to beat in the .308win. As far as temp. stability goes, Varget is an extreme powder, one of its main features is consistency with temp. changes.
Varget is very hard to beat in the .308win. As far as temp. stability goes, Varget is an extreme powder, one of its main features is consistency with temp. changes.
Re: rl15 or varget
I use both. RL15 is my short range powder while as the Varget is used for longer range. Accuracy seems to be better at longer ranges with the Varget and my RL15 loads seems to be tighter under 300yds especially at a 100. These loads are all used with a 168amax exclusively.
I use both. RL15 is my short range powder while as the Varget is used for longer range. Accuracy seems to be better at longer ranges with the Varget and my RL15 loads seems to be tighter under 300yds especially at a 100. These loads are all used with a 168amax exclusively.
Re: rl15 or varget
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gnfiter3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trying my first pound of varget for .223. I have a 550 also, and it seems to be throwing within +/-.20 grs. of the target weight. Would RL 15 do better? For Service Rifle practice, isn't this close enough? </div></div>
This is definitely close enough for 200-300 yard comp or practice, even in .223.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gnfiter3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trying my first pound of varget for .223. I have a 550 also, and it seems to be throwing within +/-.20 grs. of the target weight. Would RL 15 do better? For Service Rifle practice, isn't this close enough? </div></div>
This is definitely close enough for 200-300 yard comp or practice, even in .223.
Re: rl15 or varget
My whole point to buying the Dillon 550 was to load rifle brass,.223 in particular, progressively. It just seems to be a matter of finding a powder that meters though it. No one here has refered to Win 748 as a powder of choice. Varget, and RL15 dominate. I have no issues with altitude and temperature, it's either cool (50's) or damn hot (90's) in South Florida. We stay in when its in the 40's. (smile) I use 4064 in .308 with great results, but I do .308 50 or so at a time, weighing each load on a digital scale. .223 will be done by the 100's. Not to change the subject entirely, but what about 748?
My whole point to buying the Dillon 550 was to load rifle brass,.223 in particular, progressively. It just seems to be a matter of finding a powder that meters though it. No one here has refered to Win 748 as a powder of choice. Varget, and RL15 dominate. I have no issues with altitude and temperature, it's either cool (50's) or damn hot (90's) in South Florida. We stay in when its in the 40's. (smile) I use 4064 in .308 with great results, but I do .308 50 or so at a time, weighing each load on a digital scale. .223 will be done by the 100's. Not to change the subject entirely, but what about 748?
Re: rl15 or varget
If you're using the Dillon powder measure you should look into H335 or BLC-2.
If you're using the Dillon powder measure you should look into H335 or BLC-2.
Re: rl15 or varget
For accuracy most folks stick to the extruded propellants.
I like the single based extruded propellants like varget.
RL-15 is actually a mild double base propellant. I think its the nitroglycerin component that hurts the temp stability but I don't really know.
For accuracy most folks stick to the extruded propellants.
I like the single based extruded propellants like varget.
RL-15 is actually a mild double base propellant. I think its the nitroglycerin component that hurts the temp stability but I don't really know.
Re: rl15 or varget
do you know about if it is eaiser to clean up?
i have heard that rl15 is dirtier
do you know about if it is eaiser to clean up?
i have heard that rl15 is dirtier
Re: rl15 or varget
It is. It's covered in graphite. Varget isn't. The stuff is harder to get out of the necks, but power tools make things easier
It is. It's covered in graphite. Varget isn't. The stuff is harder to get out of the necks, but power tools make things easier
Re: rl15 or varget
Reloader-15 was designed to replace Cordite in .303 Britt during WWII when we made the ammo for the Britts. It is a very versatile powder as it has two properties that make it suitable for centerfire rifles. It develops lower pressures than IMR 4895,WW748 or Varget, but develops a much higher muzzle velocity.
The last few batches of M-118 Match ammo was loaded with Reloader-15. Many of the lots have been pulled down as the Army does not like ammo that is older than 5 years.
I have loaded .223-8mm Mauser using this powder and out to 600 yards it seems to do very well.
It is clean burning,and in the gas impingement rifle such as the AR-15 and Jlungman, it seems to produce less fouling than other powders I have tried.
In a bolt rifle, this powder seems to really come to life in a medium capacity case such as the 7.62x51,30-06,7.62x54R,.303 Britt,6.5 Swede,6.5 Italian using the normal military bullet weight. I have found the powder likes a tight neck crimp,not so much as to damage the bullet,but enough the primer will not blow it forward when fired. I'm getting very consistent velocities and repeatable SD's.
Here's 5 shot from a M1912 Argentine Mauser in 7.65 fired from the bench at 100 yards:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c374/Rapidrob/Targets/M1912-61100yardtarget.jpg
Here's a long range target using the same rifle,open sights. The target was just over 600 yards.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c374/Rapidrob/Targets/M1912-61200yardtarget.jpg
I like the powder so much in fact,I just bought another 40 pounds to see me through the winter.
Reloader-15 was designed to replace Cordite in .303 Britt during WWII when we made the ammo for the Britts. It is a very versatile powder as it has two properties that make it suitable for centerfire rifles. It develops lower pressures than IMR 4895,WW748 or Varget, but develops a much higher muzzle velocity.
The last few batches of M-118 Match ammo was loaded with Reloader-15. Many of the lots have been pulled down as the Army does not like ammo that is older than 5 years.
I have loaded .223-8mm Mauser using this powder and out to 600 yards it seems to do very well.
It is clean burning,and in the gas impingement rifle such as the AR-15 and Jlungman, it seems to produce less fouling than other powders I have tried.
In a bolt rifle, this powder seems to really come to life in a medium capacity case such as the 7.62x51,30-06,7.62x54R,.303 Britt,6.5 Swede,6.5 Italian using the normal military bullet weight. I have found the powder likes a tight neck crimp,not so much as to damage the bullet,but enough the primer will not blow it forward when fired. I'm getting very consistent velocities and repeatable SD's.
Here's 5 shot from a M1912 Argentine Mauser in 7.65 fired from the bench at 100 yards:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c374/Rapidrob/Targets/M1912-61100yardtarget.jpg
Here's a long range target using the same rifle,open sights. The target was just over 600 yards.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c374/Rapidrob/Targets/M1912-61200yardtarget.jpg
I like the powder so much in fact,I just bought another 40 pounds to see me through the winter.
Re: rl15 or varget
Oh yes,very much so. It is a very stable IMR-4895 burn rate ( close to it) powder. I shoot allot. Cost is a concern. I can get 5 pounds of Reloader-15 delivered for 81.00 Varget is what?
I keep a nice supply of:
IMR-4895
BL(c)2
IMR-4064
IMR-7828
IMR-4227
IMR-3031
Varget
Reloader-15 is so versatile. It is very underrated.
Oh yes,very much so. It is a very stable IMR-4895 burn rate ( close to it) powder. I shoot allot. Cost is a concern. I can get 5 pounds of Reloader-15 delivered for 81.00 Varget is what?
I keep a nice supply of:
IMR-4895
BL(c)2
IMR-4064
IMR-7828
IMR-4227
IMR-3031
Varget
Reloader-15 is so versatile. It is very underrated.
Re: rl15 or varget
Wow!
I kind of thought that it was the other way around.
At Perry there were seriously massive quantities or RL-15 on hand (thousands of pounds - no joke) but very little varget.
I have always had a sweet spot for varget and it's temp stability is nice.
I seem to get identical velocities with identical charge weights, and pressure appears the same.
Accuracy seems to be excellent with either.
Varget seems to get hung up easier when throwing charges into skinny necks like with the .223 but there are a few tricks to use to avoid this.
They both seem a little dirty, but I use both in AR's a lot so that may color my opinion a little.
Rapidrob:
Those targets are fantastic!
Excellent load development.
Wow!
I kind of thought that it was the other way around.
At Perry there were seriously massive quantities or RL-15 on hand (thousands of pounds - no joke) but very little varget.
I have always had a sweet spot for varget and it's temp stability is nice.
I seem to get identical velocities with identical charge weights, and pressure appears the same.
Accuracy seems to be excellent with either.
Varget seems to get hung up easier when throwing charges into skinny necks like with the .223 but there are a few tricks to use to avoid this.
They both seem a little dirty, but I use both in AR's a lot so that may color my opinion a little.
Rapidrob:
Those targets are fantastic!
Excellent load development.
Re: rl15 or varget
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: h.b.h.l.r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what about the cci 450 primers. i have tried them and br4s </div></div>
Try the 7 1/2 remmingtons or win primers with the 4350. Or even the varget for that matter. Sometimes switching primers will make a gun tighten up real quick. I do make sure that the load im using isnt to close to max.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: h.b.h.l.r</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what about the cci 450 primers. i have tried them and br4s </div></div>
Try the 7 1/2 remmingtons or win primers with the 4350. Or even the varget for that matter. Sometimes switching primers will make a gun tighten up real quick. I do make sure that the load im using isnt to close to max.
Re: rl15 or varget
Thanks for the complements on the targets. I wish I had you guys younger eyes. I seldom shoot a scope. I prefer open sights. I've been doing it so long it's just second nature to me not to use a scope out to 1000 yards.
As for dirty powder, man I hope I don't open up a bag-of worms on this next sentence. I have found that the Lee Factory Crimp Die ( when properly adjusted) does two really good things:
1. The force of the fired primer does not dislodge the bullet along with the powder charge,causing a pressure drop,theretofore, effecting velocity and increasing the area the powder gases need to fill dropping the burn rate temperature causing fouling to occur.
2. The bullet is less prone to misaligne in the case mouth when being loaded into the chamber and the critical bullet seating depth is not effected.
As you all know we can get real picky about case weight, case capacity, bullet weight,type of primer,lot number of powder,seating depth,neck ream,run-out,bla,bla,bla.
Darned if the bullet " draw pressure" really factor in more than I would have ever thought.
Moving out here where shooting 600 yards is the norm, I had to rethink all of my reloading practices.
Thanks guys.
Thanks for the complements on the targets. I wish I had you guys younger eyes. I seldom shoot a scope. I prefer open sights. I've been doing it so long it's just second nature to me not to use a scope out to 1000 yards.
As for dirty powder, man I hope I don't open up a bag-of worms on this next sentence. I have found that the Lee Factory Crimp Die ( when properly adjusted) does two really good things:
1. The force of the fired primer does not dislodge the bullet along with the powder charge,causing a pressure drop,theretofore, effecting velocity and increasing the area the powder gases need to fill dropping the burn rate temperature causing fouling to occur.
2. The bullet is less prone to misaligne in the case mouth when being loaded into the chamber and the critical bullet seating depth is not effected.
As you all know we can get real picky about case weight, case capacity, bullet weight,type of primer,lot number of powder,seating depth,neck ream,run-out,bla,bla,bla.
Darned if the bullet " draw pressure" really factor in more than I would have ever thought.
Moving out here where shooting 600 yards is the norm, I had to rethink all of my reloading practices.
Thanks guys.
Re: rl15 or varget
Neck tension can be a HUGE deal!
Anything that makes neck tension more uniform (without distorting the bullet) should enhance accuracy, especially if you don't neck turn or used calibrated bushings.
I think that the latter will help more, but if you don't do those things then the Lee die may very well help quite a bit.
Very interesting.
I'm currently exploring this now.
Neck tension can be a HUGE deal!
Anything that makes neck tension more uniform (without distorting the bullet) should enhance accuracy, especially if you don't neck turn or used calibrated bushings.
I think that the latter will help more, but if you don't do those things then the Lee die may very well help quite a bit.
Very interesting.
I'm currently exploring this now.
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