Roller hammer for AR10/15?

[Saito]

Does such a thing exist? If not, why not? My background is automotive and why not have a roller point where the hammer spends the most time in contact with the bolt carrier during cycling?

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Just like a roller lifter. Are we still stuck in the flat tappet ages or what?

I am kind of slow, but I haven't seen one yet.

 

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Re: Roller hammer for AR10/15?

I think it would be one more AR part that would sell depending on the mfr, but it would be 1 more part for a problem that does not exist

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Roller hammer for AR10/15?

make it, charge 4x normal money for it and it will sell like hotcakes. its not a bad idea, but actions have been that way forever. and if should happen to fail...

 

[Saito]

Re: Roller hammer for AR10/15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BERTMAN77MK2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it would be one more AR part that would sell depending on the mfr, but it would be 1 more part for a problem that does not exist

</div></div>

Anything that cuts the resistance down should help cycling.. there are already roller cam pins. Is that a problem that doesn't exist as well?

 

[Saito]

Re: Roller hammer for AR10/15?

If it does fail, it would be no different than it is now I suppose? Resistance wise anyway...

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Roller hammer for AR10/15?

Interesting thought, but I'm another naysayer. I don't think I've ever looked at exactly what part of the hammer is impacting with the firing pin, but I would think that would be the key to whether or not it would work. Also, as it is not only the tip of the hammer that is riding against the bottom of the BCG I'm not sure on the overall effectiveness. When the BCG hits the ridge starting the roller, even if it is slight, it would cause a potential for damage. The potential for failure by locking it up would be no different, but if it rips out the roller then you have a chunk of metal floating around in your receiver.

I agree that it sounds like a fix for a problem that doesn't exist, at least in any of my rifles, as I've never had any binding in that part. I'm usually trying to slow down the cycle of operation rather than speed it up and I like to keep my internal parts simple (all DI here). If I was building a machine gun it might be a different story but I don't have that kind of money.

But hey, I'm a grunt and a shooter, not an engineer or a gunsmith, so I could be totally off base here. Try it.

 

[ORD]

Re: Roller hammer for AR10/15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">I agree that it sounds like a fix for a problem that doesn't exist, at least in any of my rifles, as I've never had any binding in that part.</span></span></span> I'm usually trying to slow down the cycle of operation rather than speed it up and I like to keep my internal parts simple (all DI here). If I was building a machine gun it might be a different story but I don't have that kind of money.</div></div>

+1 on Redmanss' and other folks' comments. After having put tens of thousands of rounds through various ARs over the years I have never had a single problem or failure that would need to be addressed by a "roller hammer" or other part designed to do what you are attempting to do. As far as I am concerned, it is a non-issue and has the potential to cause more problems than it will ever solve.

Now, with all that said...I would almost guarantee you that if you design and manufacture them...people will buy them. There are millions and millions of dollars spent every single year by AR owners on useless, redundant, non-sensical parts/accessories. Plus, with people that own multiple ARs...if they love your product or think that it has any remote possibility to make them more of a "high-speed operator" than they believe they already are...they will buy multiples of your "roller hammer." If it is something your heart is set on...go for it! If you build it...they will come!

 

[problemchild]

Re: Roller hammer for AR10/15?

What Id like to see is a delayed roller bolt in an AR10. Thats solves 2 problems (DI/Piston). Problem one is the belching of carbon into the chamber area and problem two is the barrel bending of the piston recoil and resultant hard slap after. So I guess it would actually solve three problems.

Why not just titanium nitride coat the bcg and hammer?

 

[ORD]

Re: Roller hammer for AR10/15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What Id like to see is a delayed roller bolt in an AR10...

Why not just titanium nitride coat the bcg and hammer? </div></div>

Delayed roller locking is nothing new...but that would be something to see (at least from an engineering standpoint) on an AR-10/SR-25 type design!!!

As for coating the BCG/internals...that has been done before and works very well from a lubricity standpoint. Even just coating the BCG greatly reduces friction/drag.

All of this aside...proper lubrication goes a LONG damn way to keeping wear/tear, and ultimately failure, reduced on any AR-type rifle/carbine.

 

[Ballista One]

Re: Roller hammer for AR10/15?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: problemchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What Id like to see is a delayed roller bolt in an AR10. Thats solves 2 problems (DI/Piston). Problem one is the belching of carbon into the chamber area and problem two is the barrel bending of the piston recoil and resultant hard slap after. So I guess it would actually solve three problems.

Why not just titanium nitride coat the bcg and hammer? </div></div>

NEVER gonna happen unless you bankroll the project.

You want a roller locked .308? Go buy an HK91 or clone thereof. No need to reinvent the wheel. Roller locked guns are expensive piles of crap. Do you really want a rifle that shoots itself to pieces?

 

[Saito]

Re: Roller hammer for AR10/15?

Where the hammer strikes the firing pin is actually the first thing I looked at. Mine strikes about halfway down the face and the roller would be at the very tip of the hammer as indicated by the pen. I wouldn't be trying to alter the geometry at all, just add a small roller to the tip of the hammer. The valve end of a roller rocker arm undergoes far more stress than the hammer on an AR does, even on a full auto. Most are even made of aluminum and they don't fail(often anyway).

It would be a very simple pin and roller setup, with the pin staked so as not to come out and possibly blind drilled from one side. Worst case would be that the roller simply doesn't roll, then we're back to where we are now.

I appreciate the responses and criticism guys, I truly do.

 

[exhogflyer]

Re: Roller hammer for AR10/15?

Another thing to remember is that we're trying to keep the hammer weight as low as possible for quicker "lock time"...same reason light valve train components are used to prevent valve float.Adding a roller MAY slightly reduce friction but will invariably increase weight.Keep in mind that there is NO lack of horsepower here shoving the hammer back to the disconnector so I'm not sure what you'll gain on the plus side.Unlike an automotive roller tappet which reduces friction and allows VERY high valve spring pressure for a radical cam this is not quite the same engineering application.But hey,build it and see what happens!