Rookie shooter needs advice on purchase

[Alamo]

If this isn't the right forum please let me know and I'll move it. Basically I'm a new precision shooter looking for a turnkey package. Just something to get out and start shooting. No comps yet, just a paper puncher. My thought process is as follows...

-I can shoot to 500 yards locally
-found recently that I really, really enjoy precision shooting
-would like to ultimately compete but that's a ways off
-decided to learn MRAD first

Decided on 308 because:
-don't reload yet, so rely on factory match ammo
-saw value in learning to read wind/conditions (so no 6.5 starting off)
-barrel life

So I'm looking for a turnkey package....and basically I found this in the classifieds....

My questions is why has no one bought this gun? It's been up since 8/1

I have a 308 rem 700 LTR, 20" barrel which sits in a AICS 1.5 chassis. Rifle shoots groups in the 0.3 moa range.

The skins are black but have been painted FDE by the previous owner, looks to be duracoat

It has a tuned old style rem700 that is set to 2.5lbs.

The bolt is cerakoted green by previous owner

Badger 20moa rail.

9-13 swivel notchleg bipod w/ a podloc

Asking $1300 (without scope) plus shipping. Located in Rock Hill SC / Charlotte NC.
I will sell scope w/ entire package for a total price of 1775 shipped.

I'll entertain trades.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...00p-ltr-308win-aics-1-5-vortex-hs-t-mrad.html


Granted round count is unknown (which strikes me as a big negative) is it?
Is there a plausible/economic way to determine round count?
Why has no one else bought it?
Is there anything about any of the components or the glass that I should be aware of?
Is this a good rifle for a beginner or should I stack a few more pennies and look for something else?


Thanks in advance, and although it's already in the stupid questions section....well....just be gentle....I'm aware a few of these might be real frickin' dumb.

-Alamo

 

[Victory]

If this isn't the right forum please let me know and I'll move it. Basically I'm a new precision shooter looking for a turnkey package. Just something to get out and start shooting. No comps yet, just a paper puncher. My thought process is as follows...

-I can shoot to 500 yards locally
-found recently that I really, really enjoy precision shooting
-would like to ultimately compete but that's a ways off
-decided to learn MRAD first

Decided on 308 because:
-don't reload yet, so rely on factory match ammo
-saw value in learning to read wind/conditions (so no 6.5 starting off)
-barrel life

So I'm looking for a turnkey package....and basically I found this in the classifieds....

My questions is why has no one bought this gun? It's been up since 8/1



http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...00p-ltr-308win-aics-1-5-vortex-hs-t-mrad.html


Granted round count is unknown (which strikes me as a big negative) is it?
Is there a plausible/economic way to determine round count?
Why has no one else bought it?
Is there anything about any of the components or the glass that I should be aware of?
Is this a good rifle for a beginner or should I stack a few more pennies and look for something else?


Thanks in advance, and although it's already in the stupid questions section....well....just be gentle....I'm aware a few of these might be real frickin' dumb.

-Alamo

That will be a great rifle for you. If it is a stock LTR, I doubt the .3 groups, but whatever. Being new to LR shooting, I hightly doubt you will be able to out shoot that rifle, skill wise. Hell probably 75% of shooters can't outshoot a factory 700 PS or LTR.

I wouldn't worry about how many rounds have been fired, more about how the chamber was taken care of when cleaning, IE was a bore guide used. Most people will never shoot out a .308 barrel.

Buy it and shoot the shit out of it, you won't be let down. If later you want to upgrade, you have a great base to send off to a smith to have a match barrel put on and for them to work their magic with.

The reason it probably hasn't sold is due to everyone thinking they need a custom build. For a lot of people it is about the name or prestige of the rifle over the skill of using it. They buy a 10,000 dollar set up and barely use it. Get the cheaper rifle, and buy a shit ton of ammo, you will be light years ahead of the game that way VS buying an expensive custom rig. I still have my first LR rig, and I'm glad it wasn't a custom.

Hope this helps.

 

[sierracharlie338]

I'll have to second that.

 

[Steel head]

At worst a new barrel will be needed, being 308 I doubt it.
looks like a good deal.

 

[sib1948]

Get the rifle! It's perfect for someone like you just starting out. Save all your brass, because if you stuck with this sport, you'll be reloading soon enough for more accuracy and consistency.

 

[Tristian19]

As Victory stated, buy it and shoot the shit out of it. Work on fundamentals and when time comes send it out and have it re-barreled. Done. Seller stated there was a previous owner so who knows about round count.

Try various match grade ammo. I would start with Federal Gold Medal Match as I found it to be extremely good in my CZ. I had purchased two cases plus before I began hand loading for her.

I have a factory CZ 750 .308 at 2000 plus rounds through her and she shoots great (under .5 MOA) - granted different manufacturer.

One thing I would suggest. If you have not shot an AICS chassis try to find someone local who will allow you to get behind their's to make sure you are comfortable with it. If not then, you might just find yourself replacing stock which would eat up your factory ammo money.

Just my two cents... Though mostly echoing Victory's words...

 

[muzzlebreaker]

Remington 700 XCR is only around $700 new. Many good rifles much less 700s in that range. I prefer a longer barrel than a 20" but either way. Several 700 variants way less than that brand new

 

[Victory]

But they aren't coming with an AICS stock, badger mount, tuned trigger, or harris bipod with pod lock.

It's not the best deal ever, but he isn't getting screwed. Hell, I'm sure the owner would probably take a little less. I wouldn't feel bad about making that purchase.

 

[JackRipper]

Hell, I'm sure the owner would probably take a little less.

+1 on that. Make him an offer.

 

[Tristian19]

I personally like the AICS stock so if rig is coming with it then that is plus, for me at least. Means one less extra I have to dish money out for. That is reason why I say to Op, go for it if it is what you want to start off with.

Personally, I like longer barrels as well. But Op is trying to get his feet wet with a rig that will run 500 yards without issue and rig mentioned should do it no problem. Especially if seller states .3 MOA. Granted that maybe three sjots but under MOA is good enough for fundamentals.

Just another two quick cents...

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[Alamo]

A
One thing I would suggest. If you have not shot an AICS chassis try to find someone local who will allow you to get behind their's to make sure you are comfortable with it. If not then, you might just find yourself replacing stock which would eat up your factory ammo money.

Just my two cents... Though mostly echoing Victory's words...

Ok.....In my DD here I've come across this a few times.....that there is a love/hate thing with AICS stocks......but I haven't found any hard data, just people saying they can't get quit get comfy behind them or just can't shoot them well....is it something you could take a crack at describing? Do they favor people with short/long necks or short/long torso's? or is it just an all around feeling that you literally just have to get behind to figure out?

Either way, thanks for the heads up. I'm going to try and figure out if there's a way I can get behind one.

 

[Alamo]

Victory, thanks for the replies man. Much appreciated.

I think these are my final concerns....assuming worst case scenario (barrel/chamber thrashed) and gun wont group (assuming also it's not mount/optic related) and I have to have it re barreled right out of the gate.....how much more will I be out to get a sub MOA gun out of it?

Is there any way to tell before purchase if the chamber is in good shape or do I just ask and hope the guy is honest?

Lastly the guy has great feedback so I'm inclined to believe (with grain of internet salt) his claim of .3 MOA. But if it's not.....What is the average accuracy of that barrel/action? Or is that really just wholly subjective depending on how it's been used/maintained?

Thanks again for taking your time to answer my questions.

 

[Tristian19]

Victory, thanks for the replies man. Much appreciated.

I think these are my final concerns....assuming worst case scenario (barrel/chamber thrashed) and gun wont group (assuming also it's not mount/optic related) and I have to have it re barreled right out of the gate.....how much more will I be out to get a sub MOA gun out of it?

Is there any way to tell before purchase if the chamber is in good shape or do I just ask and hope the guy is honest?

Lastly the guy has great feedback so I'm inclined to believe (with grain of internet salt) his claim of .3 MOA. But if it's not.....What is the average accuracy of that barrel/action? Or is that really just wholly subjective depending on how it's been used/maintained?

Thanks again for taking your time to answer my questions.

If I may throw some thoughts for consideration your way...
- You could call Remington tomorrow and ask them how much do they charge to replace/install chambered barrel for rig as if you already owned it.
* When I called CZ and Savage same question for my CZ 750 Sniper .308 and Savage 110 BA .338 LM cost was around $400.00 each.
- Personally, I would go through a qualified GS and put a well known barrel, such as Krieger, and get some real quality over factory barrels. Will probably cost twice as factory being barrel alone with cost $300 plus to start.

As long as barrel runs MOA (most likely better based on current owners claim) then shoot, shoot, shoot.

Not sure how you can know about rig unless you get your hands on it first.

 

[Victory]

Victory, thanks for the replies man. Much appreciated.

I think these are my final concerns....assuming worst case scenario (barrel/chamber thrashed) and gun wont group (assuming also it's not mount/optic related) and I have to have it re barreled right out of the gate.....how much more will I be out to get a sub MOA gun out of it?

Is there any way to tell before purchase if the chamber is in good shape or do I just ask and hope the guy is honest?

Lastly the guy has great feedback so I'm inclined to believe (with grain of internet salt) his claim of .3 MOA. But if it's not.....What is the average accuracy of that barrel/action? Or is that really just wholly subjective depending on how it's been used/maintained?

Thanks again for taking your time to answer my questions.

Feedback is based on selling, not about whether you exaggerate your group sizes on the internet.

If you get a custom rifle shooting consistently in the .3's you have a badass rifle. Shooting in the .3's with a factory rifle, that isn't happening consistently. You might shoot a 3 round group like that 1 in a 100 tries, with hand loaded ammo. That rifle probably shoots 1 MOA consistently.

Worst case, the barrel sucks, so rebarrel it.

Ask him what his cleaning practices were. If he didn't use a bore guide, I personally would pass on a custom rifle, but that doesn't mean it's fried. Hell with a factory LTR, you could probably clean without one and never change the accuracy the life of the gun. Rifles are a lot tougher than most will think, I’m sure it will be just fine, stop over thinking this.

If you get that rifle, use match rounds, you will probably get around .75 to 1.25 MOA, most of that depends on your fundamentals, that is the most important part of this equation.

Quit thinking about being sub MOA, you need to focus on being able to make your shots repeatable first and actually having consistent groupings that don't jump all over the target, then you can worry about group size.

Also there is no hard evidence on the AICS vs other quality stocks. Either you like the feel of them or you don't. If you are choosing good quality stocks, it's kind of like picking between lazy boys, only you can say if it is comfortable or not. Your preference might be different than others.


Cheers

 

[Alamo]

If I may throw some thoughts for consideration your way...
- You could call Remington tomorrow and ask them how much do they charge to replace/install chambered barrel for rig as if you already owned it.
* When I called CZ and Savage same question for my CZ 750 Sniper .308 and Savage 110 BA .338 LM cost was around $400.00 each.
- Personally, I would go through a qualified GS and put a well known barrel, such as Krieger, and get some real quality over factory barrels. Will probably cost twice as factory being barrel alone with cost $300 plus to start.

As long as barrel runs MOA (most likely better based on current owners claim) then shoot, shoot, shoot.

Not sure how you can know about rig unless you get your hands on it first.

Thanks for the extra considerations, I think I'll assume an additional 1k in the event there is a problem (I like to err on the conservative side). I went ahead and started a spreadsheet and looked up the individual prices of the components and though it's a bit outside my budget I think I'm going to take the advice yall have given and go ahead and make an offer. If everything is on the up and up and we can strike a deal I get a pretty good platform to start with (assuming the AICS stock falls in my "love" category).

Definitely appreciate the help.

 

[Alamo]

Feedback is based on selling, not about whether you exaggerate your group sizes on the internet.

Very true, I was assuming that he'd sold rifles in the past and had probably advertised accuracy....but you're right.....feedback doesn't give much to go on. That's a big assumption.

If you get a custom rifle shooting consistently in the .3's you have a badass rifle. Shooting in the .3's with a factory rifle, that isn't happening consistently. You might shoot a 3 round group like that 1 in a 100 tries, with hand loaded ammo. That rifle probably shoots 1 MOA consistently.

Worst case, the barrel sucks, so rebarrel it.

Ask him what his cleaning practices were. If he didn't use a bore guide, I personally would pass on a custom rifle, but that doesn't mean it's fried. Hell with a factory LTR, you could probably clean without one and never change the accuracy the life of the gun. Rifles are a lot tougher than most will think, I’m sure it will be just fine, stop over thinking this.

If you get that rifle, use match rounds, you will probably get around .75 to 1.25 MOA, most of that depends on your fundamentals, that is the most important part of this equation.

Quit thinking about being sub MOA, you need to focus on being able to make your shots repeatable first and actually having consistent groupings that don't jump all over the target, then you can worry about group size.

Also there is no hard evidence on the AICS vs other quality stocks. Either you like the feel of them or you don't. If you are choosing good quality stocks, it's kind of like picking between lazy boys, only you can say if it is comfortable or not. Your preference might be different than others.


Cheers

haha so do or do not inquire about the bore guide?

I hear ya man....i do have a tendency to over analyze. I'm going to sleep on it.

 

[Victory]

Sure, but it isn't a deal killer. There might only be 100 rounds through it and he only cleaned it once. The guy before him might have only shot 200 rounds through it, and cleaned it once, so no real damage could have been done with or without a bore guide. Every bolt gun I've owned has been used, factory and custom, all were fine. If he tells you he has fired 20,000 rounds and cleaned after every ten rounds, run. No jacked up factory rifle or burned out barrel is going to shoot a .3 group, if that is true.

Our teams issued rifles have had more people finger fuck and clean them than I like to think about, they all still kill bad guys, it will be alright.

 

[Tristian19]

It is like buying a used car. You really do not know much about UNLESS seller shows/gives you all the maintenance paperwork, for example.

I did not keep records on my factory rigs either. Now my two customs have explicit data in their books. I do know my 308 count is just over 2000 and my Savage .338 LM has about 800 shots.

In short, precision results do not come cheap. Though, that does not mean you must spend a lot for precision but money will be spent for sure.

Allocating $1K is a very good idea in my opinion as that is how I do things as well. Hopefully, you do not spend most of it so you can reallocate balance to match grade ammo to work on fundamentals.

Once last suggestion for consideration. It can be very easy to find yourself like a kid in a candy store ready to purchase whatever item(s) tickle your fancy. My suggestion would be sleep on it for a few nights before pulling any triggers. Unless you have a money tree then let me know and I'll help you pick out some really nice hardware.

I am guilty of making purchases in past that were really not needed. Last year as I was cleaning out shop I was finding hardware that I purchased that I rarely used at best. Most of the items I speak of where those I pulled trigger on without sleeping on it for a few nights. It is all a learning experience and you will find money can be spent pretty damn quickly...

Generally speaking, if it DON"T feel right then turn around and find a purchase that DOES. Only thing you may lose out on is a HEADACHE...

Buy Once - Cry Once (Has become my way of life. Now a days I just make sure I cry for a GOOD REASON. )

 

[Bender]

I read on here where a guy has 12k rounds on his .308 and still groups as new. I could not afford to shoot that in 5 years.

 

[Alamo]

Well, as an update I'm much more prepared to take the plunge now, unfortunately, though I tried several times the fella who sold the rifle didn't check his ad and sold the barrelled action to someone else on armslist.

But thank you all for the input anyway....the hunt continues.

 

[Tristian19]

I always see rigs for sale in hear. You may juat have better luck finding a good start up rig right here. At least you can, most likely, obtain more information/background on seller and allow your mind be more at ease.
Just a thought.

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[Infidel45]

That will be a great rifle for you. If it is a stock LTR, I doubt the .3 groups, but whatever. Being new to LR shooting, I hightly doubt you will be able to out shoot that rifle, skill wise. Hell probably 75% of shooters can't outshoot a factory 700 PS or LTR.

I wouldn't worry about how many rounds have been fired, more about how the chamber was taken care of when cleaning, IE was a bore guide used. Most people will never shoot out a .308 barrel.

Buy it and shoot the shit out of it, you won't be let down. If later you want to upgrade, you have a great base to send off to a smith to have a match barrel put on and for them to work their magic with.

The reason it probably hasn't sold is due to everyone thinking they need a custom build. For a lot of people it is about the name or prestige of the rifle over the skill of using it. They buy a 10,000 dollar set up and barely use it. Get the cheaper rifle, and buy a shit ton of ammo, you will be light years ahead of the game that way VS buying an expensive custom rig. I still have my first LR rig, and I'm glad it wasn't a custom.

Hope this helps.

Best advice I have seen for a new shooter's initial purchase. The AICS 1.5 is a tad on the heavy side for hauling around but if you are just starting and just shooting bench/prone, then the weight won't matter. If you bought all the things this rifle has separately, you would have more in it, have to install/pay to have the parts installed, etc. I would go for it and like Victory said "buy a shit ton of ammo" with the money you aren't spending on a rifle you don't need yet. Save your brass and when you start reloading, that will be an added expense you won't have since you already bought them. I shot about 1000 rounds of factory FGMM and 118LR through my AAC-SD .308 before I started reloading....was glad to have the brass when I did and am still using it.

Good luck and post some pics of your new rifle!