Gunsmithing Rotten Ruger

[aqualung]

Hi Guys,

Some of you may recall that I had a Ruger 77 Mk11 in .260Rem and the damn thing just wouldn't group less than 4inches at 100m.

Well, at the NRA convention in PHX I spoke to the Ruger people, and the upshot is that I received an e-mail from their 'Chief Armourer'. I am posting his comments below. Doesn't seem right to me, seems like too much torque for a beech stock.
Anybody know the Youngs Modulus of Beech? I'm thinking that 95inch pounds is going to crush the wood.

Before I reply to Ruger, I wanted your comments, so I can reply with AUTHORITY.

Here are his instructions;

Please see comments below from our Chief Armorer:
>
> You should install the rifle back in the original stock, assuming it
> is un altered, and retoque the Front mounting screw down to 95 inch
> pounds.
> At this torque the barrel should be bedded in the stock so it has very
> little lateral movement. If it does move it should return to the same
> spot each time. If it does not that is the problem with your
> grouping.

I was going to say something sarcastic like, maybe I should just weld the barrel to a nice piece of I beam, that way the barrel will not move. OK, so it'll be a little cumbersome afield, but....

Comments Gentlemen please.

Thanks,

Neil

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Regardless of what you think of his advice, he is trying to help you.

If you have doubts, ask him to verify the torque settings. If it messes anything up then they would be more likly to fix it.


ETA: 95in. lds. does sound a bit tight for a wood stock.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Rotten Ruger

i know what the problem is......you used metric instead of standard..............and prolly had way too much lager.

 

[Ghost3x7]

Re: Rotten Ruger

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless of what you think of his advice, he is trying to help you.

If you have doubts, ask him to verify the torque settings. If it messes anything up then they would be more likly to fix it.


ETA: 95in. lds. does sound a bit tight for a wood stock. </div></div>

+1 on that. Ruger Techs are a few of the good guys left in the industry. I had a P-89 I sent back to them due to an issue with the barrel being bored off center. As soon as they got it in the door, the tech called me and kept me aprised of everything, to include putting it on the truck to ship back to me. They sent me 2 extra mags and a holster to boot, and picked up the shipping.

Try his advice, and if it oesn't work, let him know, at this point, it becomes as much his problem as yours. (any employee worth his paycheck wants their product to do what the company promises.)

 

[rwcathunter]

Re: Rotten Ruger

i had a hard time getting my 77 .270 to shoot under 2 inches. i ended up shimming under the last inch of the forend to create barrel contact. i didn't think it would work but it now shoots an inch at 100 yards. i used some rubber mat folded over til snug.

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: Rotten Ruger

95 in lbs is higher than most other manufacturers but it is the correct spec for a Ruger.

After bedding and floating my M77MK II and torquing that front screw down to 90-95 in/lbs it shoots extremely well with the factory pencil barrel.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Rotten Ruger

That's very interesting, as I have just inherited 3 Ruger 77's. They are: a 77V .280 Rem, a 77 .280 Rem, and a 77 .30-'06. I will keep these torque specs in mind as I develop the loads, what torque for the rear screw?

 

[ejg]

Re: Rotten Ruger

My friend also had a bit of a rotten ruger in 6.5x55.
Damn thing never shot well, on top of it I've never seen a deer go down with it even if he hit it right. The thing was cursed
Lately things improved a bit, he changed his bullets and I did a job on the stock. In the end we got down to 3/4" groups and he has less runners.
I put some pictures up on a UK site.
The stalking directory

edi

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: Rotten Ruger

First hand tighten in this order:
Front
Rear
Middle

Torque: In this order
Front 90 in lbs (you can go to 95, but I'd try 90 first)
Rear: 50 in lbs
Middle 50 in lbs

 

[Opher]

Re: Rotten Ruger

New to the web site, hello all. I just bought a Ruger SR 556 and it froze up within the first 30 rounds. The gas piston won't retract. The entire gun is off line. I'm about to find out just how good Rugers really are.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Welcome.

Please fill out your profile and keep us posted on your progress with getting your rifle repaired.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Rotten Ruger

PL,

Any news on this? Any improvement to your groups? My stainless 77mkII .270, on a composite stock, shoots pretty consistently moa until the 4th shot starts to open things up.

I'd like to replace the trigger on it though...

What type of ammo have you run in your .260R? Has it been crap with everything, handloads included? Have you tried a barrel shim forward of the action?

How does the bore look?

Sorry for all the questions.

 

[krw]

Re: Rotten Ruger

I've got a pretty good collection of OM Ruger pistols and especially like the Flattop's. Now with that being said, I've never seen a good shooting Ruger bolt rifle. Before my group started getting custom rifles built, we went through the gamut of factory heavy barreled rifles. I have seen several box stock factory Remingtons that would shoot 1/2" all day. I've never seen a Ruger shoot anywhere that good and the bbl's were horrindous on coppering up. Now to mention it, I've never seen a good shooting Mini-14 either, but I'll save that for another day. krw

 

[Ghost3x7]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Mini-14s weren't designed to be really accurate, they were designed to shoot "Minute Of Truck" at 100 yards, and go bang everytime you pull the trigger. I inherited 2 of them, I put a heavier barrel on one and bedded the action to the stock that tightened it up a bit, but it's no match rifle.

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Man....I must be the luckiest M.Fer on the planet!

I've got 2 Rugers, 1 Varmint barreled 25-06 and 1 pencil barrelled .270 Both of those rifles will shoot 1/2-3/4" groups with cheap factory crap ammo ALL day long if I do my part.

Matter of fact I broke out a box of 15 year Winchester ammo and shot a 4 round 3/4" center to center group.

"the damn thing just wouldn't group less than 4inches at 100m".....WTF!.....laughing...Did the barrel rattle when you picked it up????

That is just down right brutal.

-Pat

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Well, I didn't want to exagerate about my .270... And my Mini is actually a little better than minute of head light at 100 yards!

 

[ncyotecaller]

Re: Rotten Ruger

I just got mt M77 .280 back from being rechambered to .280AI and having the trigger done. Trigger is great haven't had a chance to shoot it yet though.

 

[aqualung]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Hi Y'all

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this, but I've been having a rough time of it at home lately.

Thanks for the voice of reason on this one. YES, they are trying to help, but it wern't exactly the response I was looking for. That's my fault, not Ruger's.

My Wheeler FAT wrench don't go as high as 95 inch pounds (And Hey Boltripper, I'm bilingual. I can use American AND standard! ;-) ) BUT, I did try to torque the screws up, and the bit shattered, apparently, it's supposed to do that (according to Chapman, my other tool supplier).

The stock has been modified with sandpaper to free float the barrel, so as it is, I'm no further forward.

I will be e-mailing Ruger tonight, now that I have heard what you boys have had to say.

As they say in Star Wars, "The saga continues"

Watch this space.

N

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Understood on the Fat Wrench. Just torque that down as high as you can go, then use a non torque driver for a little more - don't gorilla it. Then 50 in lbs on the rear screw, then 50 in lbs on the center screw.

 

[858]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Try eight foot pounds instead.

 

[Pete Lincoln]

Re: Rotten Ruger

I just tuned up a Ruger77MKII for a customer, they are a bit fiddley to bed. didn't shoot as good as a Howa would,.
Had a great trigger on it mind, 3 way firing pin blocking safety is a good point as is the large extractor.
I like the dark grey finish they get on thier stainless models.
The action was a bit rough around the edges.

It'll do for a hunting rifle would be my verdict on the 77.

not exactly a precieion rifle, but minute of dear at 200m is doable.

Best shooting Ruger i ever saw was a custom job in, I think it was .375Rotzenjager. ( which is i belibe a 35Whelan necked uop and firing lead cast bullets) (dont quote me on the caliber, I built a .300wsm for its owner)

Pete

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Recently got asked to sight in a mini-14. Gave up trying at 100yd, took the target and walked out 50 steps from the line, sighted it in there. Tried several loads including generic 55gr, USGI 55gr, and 55gr Sierra Varmint hollowpoint handloads (25.4gr W748). Shot everything to about the same POI (it's a relative thing with the Mini-14), with some not so bad looking performance with the handloads.

Then, just for S&G's, I took a whack at the 200yd gong (about 18"Wx24"H). Held bottom, clang; held top, clang. That was a pleasant surprise. I left the owner with 60 55gr SGK Hollowpoint handloads and another 50 or so USGI tracers I happened to have onhand with no use.

Greg

 

[MLC]

Re: Rotten Ruger

What bullets are you using?

 

[shooter308]

Re: Rotten Ruger

rotten ruger? LOL HAHAHAHAHBABAHHAHAH thats funny there nah i have had some shooters and some shitters from RUGER. Guess its the luck of the draw you know?

 

[aqualung]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Bullet wise, I've tried everything, from 100gn 120gn Nosler BT's 125gn Partitions, right up to 142gn SMK's, by way of Barnes, Hornady and Speer.

Used my Stoney Point to get appropriate COAL.

My rem 700 in 7mm-08 will shoot .25MOA all day long if I do my part. Got a target with a 1 hole group from the remmy and a 3 inch group from the Ruger @100m. Don't think it's me, or my reloading technique.

The 3 incher was using Remington factory fodder, 125gn Partitions.

Pretty sure that it's a Friday afternoon gun, that or a Monday morning, hungover gun!

Neil

 

[aqualung]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Pete,

PM inbound.

Been offered a Howa .308 action for free. Need some advice.

N

 

[Top Cat]

Re: Rotten Ruger

It is not a fair trial of the Ruger, or any rifle, to test fire for accuracy if it is flopping around in the stock. Rugers have a unique layout around the recoil lug, that requires some attention, so might not always be bedded even adequately.

Regardless, that should be done. Once you have done a few you will get the hang of it...even pillars are not a problem. Possibly because they are rarely bedded, Rugers will benefit more than most other brands from a properly bedded action and a properly free floated barrel. When tuned up, they should shoot in the 1 1/2" range pretty consistently. The newer Hawkeyes have more consistent barrels, but that doesn't substitute for the need for bedding.

Another Ruger that is in desperate need of stronger attachment to a stock is the Mini 14, but one of my Mini-14s shoots around 8" with WW White Box, 6" with Rem SP, 6.5" with PMC SP and 1" with my own loads with LC 91 and Sierra 69 HP with no bedding.

TC

 

[aqualung]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Well, it may not be a fair trial, but all my other rifles (new and used!) shoot really well without the drama of this damn Ruger. And that's without doing anything with them. Remingtons and a Howa. with a Sako on the way. I'm going with a Howa as soon as I rectify this Ruger. Once I get it to shoot to about an inch, it's out the door.

I have to get it to shoot something reasonable before it goes, as I could not in all conscience sell it on to another shooter the way it is now.

N

 

[Jim See]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Never tighten the middle action screw more than finger tight!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have accurized a good number of rugers and all were 1moa or better after the work, with good ammo.
The biggest gains are in proper bedding and a free floated barrel. You must bed the gun before opening the barrel channel, the front reciever inlet is low so when the front bolt is tightened it sucks down and creates the forend tip pressure. If you bed it before opening the channel you will fill in this void than the barrel channel can be opened without the barreled action sinking into the inlet. Anyone who has done this knows what I'm talking about.

Tightening the middle screw flexes the action and ruins any chance of accuracy. I have had guys bring rugers in the shop telling me the barrels were shot out. I check the screws, loosen the middle one that mister ham fists tightened with his air wrench and tell them to go try again. Thats usually followed by a look that the guy thinks I'm nuts.

2 days later I get thank you call.

Find a smith who knows rugers and he will make it shoot.

 

[aqualung]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Hi Jim,

OOOOOOPS!

I wish I had spoken to you first!!!!!!

I had already free floated the barrel in the original wood stock, but without bedding the action first.

95inch pounds seemed like a lot of pressure bedding to me, but that's what Ruger recommend.

The action presently resides in a Hogue overmoulded stock. The barrel is free floating, but not bedded.

I will check (and loosen) the middle action screw next.

Not many smiths that specialize in Rugers here. Everybody does Remmy's because they're easy, or Sako because there is not much to do.

Do I have to take the rifle back to the UK importers to get a new stock and have them re-bed (Rugers words not mine) the action.

Is there anything that I can do now, or is it too late?

Neil

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Bullet is Sierra 55gr HPBT GameKing #1390.

 

[Jim See]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Tighten up the front screw first then rear screw, and the middle one an 1/16 of a turn past finger tight. Take off the scope and lap the hell out of the ring bottoms as they sit tourqed on to the reciever. Remount your scope. You can change out the trigger spring and get the pull to 3 pounds. If this alone dos not resolve the problem I suggest you get a bore scope or take it to a smith, all the tweaking in the world will not fix a deffect in the barrel. I did see one ruger 308 target that had inclusions in the barrel steel that littered the bore. It fouled like a bastard.

 

[aqualung]

Re: Rotten Ruger

Greg,

You know that I take anything you say as gospel, but 55grn in .260? Well, legally I cannot use that round for deer in Scotland. I have to use a minimum bullet wt of 100grn, which makes it a bit tricky to use my .243, which shoots 90grn Nosler BT's into 1 hole @100.

But funnily enough, I can use .223 for Roe Deer in Scotland, but if I use .243, the bullet weight HAS to be 100grn.

Go figure.

The law is an Ass.

Any other thoughts Greg??

Thanks,

Neil

 

["Partridge"]

Re: Rotten Ruger

ruger are good people,but the accuracy thing is exactly why i do not own one .i have only owned one maybe 15 yrs ago.it shot ok,but not good enough to keep.