S&B Klassik field use

[Bakwa]

I have a Tikka CTR 20" 6.5 that I've been using as a crossover target shooting and hunting rifle. It's worn everything from Steiner 3-15 & 1-4 to a NXS 2.5-10 depending on what I was using it for.

It's now time to rebarrel so I'm planning on making it a more field/hunting dedicated setup. It's probably going to get a 18" 3b in 6.5.

So I'm looking into good versatile optic options to dedicate to this old rifle, newly barreled into a dedicated hunting rifle.
Namely, the Klassik 3-12x42 L3 since it's on sale.

Schmidt Bender Klassik 3-12x42 30mm Reticle P3 .1mRad CW Riflescope 645-811-882-05-05A02

Schmidt Bender Hunting 3-12x42 30mm 645-811-882-05-05A02 | Only at EuroOptic.com!

www.eurooptic.com

I'm looking for a lower magnification range, light weight, great glass, and usable reticle for hold out to 400yds.
This seems to be it.

How does it hold up?
Is it pretty durable?
Is the glass appropriate for its price range or is it more like the Razor LHT?
Are there other good options I'm overlooking?
I'm trying to make an educated decision.

 

[A.Redd]

Not sure if this helps but I recently picked up the 4-16 model with the same reticle. The glass is great but it has a bit of what I think is called spherical aberration and CA. I have the 3-21 exos and a Pmii, the klassik is very similar to the exos, minus the exos doesn’t have the spherical aberration. The CA is minor and less than the Kahles k6-24 I had, I think you would only notice any CA in non-hunting situations. Overall I’d say the clarity and brightness punches above its a 1300 price point but it does suffer a little from being an older optical design, hence the spherical aberration. On a side note, the 4-16 is only 100 more and has a very forging eyebox, I bet you will get more use out of the additional mag, than the extra FOV with the three power.

 

[Bakwa]

Not sure if this helps but I recently picked up the 4-16 model with the same reticle. The glass is great but it has a bit of what I think is called spherical aberration and CA. I have the 3-21 exos and a Pmii, the klassik is very similar to the exos, minus the exos doesn’t have the spherical aberration. The CA is minor and less than the Kahles k6-24 I had, I think you would only notice any CA in non-hunting situations. Overall I’d say the clarity and brightness punches above its a 1300 price point but it does suffer a little from being an older optical design, hence the spherical aberration. On a side note, the 4-16 is only 100 more and has a very forging eyebox, I bet you will get more use out of the additional mag, than the extra FOV with the three power.

I was looking at that one too.

Schmidt Bender 4-16x50mm Klassik LM P3 0.5 cm Riflescope 847-811-862-08-08A02

FREE SHIPPING on Schmidt Bender 4-16x50mm Klassik LM P3 0.5 cm Riflescope 847-811-862-08-08A02

www.eurooptic.com

The biggest downsides to that option are the 5oz more of weight, larger objective [more general bulk], and less field of view.
The pros are bigger objective [more light] and more mag for spotting/observing.

Hunting mostly in the SE, I really don't need a lot of mag and FOV can be important in the tight areas.
Though the difference isn't that great between those two options.

I guess I posted this thread just to make sure I wasn't missing another comparable option. I'd love a Swaro, but can't stand any of their reticles for holds.

 

[Criver600]

Mine is 30 years old, looks right at home on my custom pre-64 Mod-70 .308. Can't beat it for early and late lowlight conditions

 

[TheBigCountry]

Why not get one of the older Bushy LRTS or LRHS models used here in the PX?

 

[Bakwa]

Why not get one of the older Bushy LRTS or LRHS models used here in the PX?

I probably should, but I think I'm just too much of an elitist to buy anything with the Bushnell name on it. I'm a poor elitist, but I've been disatisfied enough with cheaper gear so that I tend to buy high end just to ensure that the product with satisfy my wants.

 

[BamaSE]

I went thru a similar decision process a few months ago and almost went Klassik but wound up getting a Leupold VX6 HD 2-12x42 and I am pleased. Not quite as crisp as my S&B Polar and not quite the low light transmission, but good glass and zoom ratio for an all around close to mid range hunting scope. Hunted with it this evening on a field with a max 200 yard shot and no issues making out details clearly up until legal shooting time ended 30 minutes after sunset.

 

[CaptArab]

Man, that S&B ticks a lot of boxes.
It wasn't on my radar at all, but illum, FFP, mil reticle ~20oz is pretty hard to beat.

I'm still running the swfa 3-9 and am pretty happy with it, but would mind a hair more mag for paper and illum for woods, and a true 3x w/o tunnelling on the bottom.

I've debated the nxs compact as well but the price and sfp kill the deal.

$1200 really ain't bad for that package. Exposed locking elevation turret would seal the deal.

Curious about durability, etc as my field rifles get knocked around pretty hard.

 

[Bakwa]

Man, that S&B ticks a lot of boxes.
It wasn't on my radar at all, but illum, FFP, mil reticle ~20oz is pretty hard to beat.

I'm still running the swfa 3-9 and am pretty happy with it, but would mind a hair more mag for paper and illum for woods, and a true 3x w/o tunnelling on the bottom.

I've debated the nxs compact as well but the price and sfp kill the deal.

$1200 really ain't bad for that package. Exposed locking elevation turret would seal the deal.

Curious about durability, etc as my field rifles get knocked around pretty hard.

That's my main concern too. Durability.
I know the PMII's are pretty gtg, but I'm curious about the Klassik series.
Otherwise, it really does check a lot of boxes.

 

[CaptArab]

The "crossover" scope is such a neglected hole in the market.

I flop between my 4-16x42 atacrs and swfa 3-9s.

Something in the middle would be perfect- I would pay crazy money if could have my 4-16 atacr shrunk down to a 30mm tube with decent killing reticle and 3-12 mag range.

Athlon of all people seems to be the only one making one- their 2-12 is tempting but I still feel like a whore buying Chinese optics and never really trust them to hold zero.

On further inspection I think the fixed parallax and capped elevation kills the S&B for me.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I’ve got 2 of the 3-12x42 Klassiks in the precision hunter model. Love them. Brighter and better sight picture than the compact NXS 2.5-10x42, for my eyes. Durability is very good, I dragged this one all over and it just works. I’m also finding that the P3 reticle is a great hunting reticle for me.

 

[Bakwa]

The "crossover" scope is such a neglected hole in the market.

I flop between my 4-16x42 atacrs and swfa 3-9s.

Something in the middle would be perfect- I would pay crazy money if could have my 4-16 atacr shrunk down to a 30mm tube with decent killing reticle and 3-12 mag range.

Athlon of all people seems to be the only one making one- their 2-12 is tempting but I still feel like a whore buying Chinese optics and never really trust them to hold zero.

On further inspection I think the fixed parallax and capped elevation kills the S&B for me.

This^^^

I'm hoping that ZCO does this.
Basically a LW Klassik with adjustable parallax built for a beating with a forgiving eye box and great FOV. I'd pay ATACR & ZCO $ for that if it checks all the boxes.
I just want to have my cake and eat it too... and I'm willing to pay for it. lol

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I’ve often said if S&B built a 3-12x42 PMII at about the same weight as the Klassik or the 10x42PMII, I’d buy them for almost every hunting rifle I own (that’s not already wearing a TT315H)….

 

[st1650]

I absolutely love my German made Klassik 3-12x42

- FFP
- Lightweight
- p3 mildot reticle
- 3.3 mil of travel on low profile exposed turret with zero set/stop
- nice illum

By far my nicest hunting scope. Replaced a LHT HD 3-15 and couldn’t be happier.

Sits on a 300BLK 12.5” most of the time then goes a anTI 2B 7mm-08 for deer hunting season.

 

[A.Redd]

I’ve often said if S&B built a 3-12x42 PMII at about the same weight as the Klassik or the 10x42PMII, I’d buy them for almost every hunting rifle I own (that’s not already wearing a TT315H)….

I think this is fictional land, the Klassik is the light weight pmii. It takes material to make the Pmii as robust as it is, once you start taking away material then it simply doesn’t have the same features and durability.

 

[CaptArab]

Perhaps this is our huckleberry?

Tangent Theta Model TT315H Long Range Hunter Series 3-15x50mm MRAD Riflescope 800102-0304

FREE SHIPPING on Tangent Theta Model TT315H Long Range Hunter Series 3-15x50mm MRAD Riflescope 800102-0304

www.eurooptic.com

That price tho- gonna make me eat my foot over my "I'll pay for it" comments.

 

[jbuck88]

I came really close to getting the TT315H but went with the nxs 2.5-10x42 instead. I like the looks of that Klassik other then no exposed turret. For a hunting rifle I don't want to hold into the air. If I couldn't dial I would want a tree reticle.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Update: sent my klassiks back to Jerry and had them change out the BDC turret to their new 4.8 mil dial. Works great and gets me to 700-800 with my 6.5 PRC it’s on.

 

[st1650]

Update: sent my klassiks back to Jerry and had them change out the BDC turret to their new 4.8 mil dial. Works great and gets me to 700-800 with my 6.5 PRC it’s on.

View attachment 8305443

Lucky man. I had my Klassik sent to S&B in Europe this summer and they told me they couldn't do it.

 

[Darayavaus]

Mine is 30 years old, looks right at home on my custom pre-64 Mod-70 .308. Can't beat it for early and late lowlight conditions

I know this is a necro response.

and subjectively, no you cant beat good glass like that.

Objectively, I did numerous tests on high end optics a number of years ago. Using side-by-side benched rifles and optics and eye charts at 100 yards in post-sunset fading light conditions, I found that the Zeiss Victory V8 was the brightest glass, lasting longer into darkness than the S&B T96 Polar, although I found that the image on the T96 was weird and washed out. Next was the earlier generation Zeiss Diavari T*, then the S&B Klassik 8x fixed power, then some Kahles Helia scopes and the variable Klassik S&B. all of these scopes lasted far beyond posted hunting hours on the days they were tested.

 

[krumfola]

I’ve got a Klassik 6x42 getting the 5mil elevation turret installed right now. Planning to mount it on either 6.5PRC or a 280 AI.

 

[CaptArab]

Update: sent my klassiks back to Jerry

View attachment 8305443

Who's Jerry?

 

[krumfola]

Jerry is the S&B service rep. Nice guy.

[email protected]

 

[krumfola]

Update: sent my klassiks back to Jerry and had them change out the BDC turret to their new 4.8 mil dial. Works great and gets me to 700-800 with my 6.5 PRC it’s on.

View attachment 8305443

Got any more pics and maybe the build specs of that rifle? Looks great.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Got any more pics and maybe the build specs of that rifle? Looks great.

Sure
GA Precision build
GA Templar (anTi) short action
Bartlein cfw 4 contour 7.5 twist 20”
Manners UC plus
Hawkins Hunter M5 DBM and mag
TBAC CB and Ultra 7 6.5
NF UL rings

Berger 140 elite hunter at 2,950 does the trick….

 

[beetroot]

Sure
GA Precision build
GA Templar (anTi) short action
Bartlein cfw 4 contour 7.5 twist 20”
Manners UC plus
Hawkins Hunter M5 DBM and mag
TBAC CB and Ultra 7 6.5
NF UL rings

Berger 140 elite hunter at 2,950 does the trick….

View attachment 8324218View attachment 8324220View attachment 8324225

What cartridge?

Is the Schmidt still holding up OK?
Still seems like one of the best options for a FFP hunting scope currently on the market.

 

[NateVA]

Still seems like one of the best options for a FFP hunting scope currently on the market.

Depends on your pricepoint but I'm not sure if they make the top 3 as far as FFP hunting scopes under $1,500. There's been a hell of a lot of good word on the Maven RS1.2 2.5-15 lately and that's $1,200. Its reticle certainly seems like it was built for hunting and it's been successfully drop-tested (however much that matters to you). I wish Nightforce would learn to read and realize the "H" in "SHV" stands for hunter. Maybe that would cause them to make a reticle for the SHV that works well for hunting.

For under $1,500 it seems the usual options are Maven RS1.2 2.5-15, Nightforce SHV 4-14, and Trijicon Tenmile 3-18.

 

[beetroot]

Depends on your pricepoint but I'm not sure if they make the top 3 as far as FFP hunting scopes under $1,500. There's been a hell of a lot of good word on the Maven RS1.2 2.5-15 lately and that's $1,200. Its reticle certainly seems like it was built for hunting and it's been successfully drop-tested (however much that matters to you). I wish would learn to read and realize the "H" in "SHV" stands for hunter. Maybe that would cause them to make a reticle for the SHV that works well for hunting.

For under $1,500 it seems the usual options are Maven RS1.2 2.5-15, Nightforce SHV 4-14, and Trijicon Tenmile 3-18.

Should've clarified, for the size, weight, and mag range there aren't any better options.

The P3 reticle looks to be one of the best visibilty low power reticles, and the illumination isn't over done.

The LRHS 3-12 would be a good alternative but they are pretty hard to find.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

What cartridge?

Is the Schmidt still holding up OK?
Still seems like one of the best options for a FFP hunting scope currently on the market.

6.5 PRC
Yes it’s holding up great, I doubt I’ll take it off that rifle. 4.8 mils gets me out as far as I’d ever take a shot at an animal.

 

[st1650]

I have both the lrtsi 3-12 and the SnB 3-12 klassik illum mil/mil.
I prefer the SnB. Sits on my ultralight 204R coyote gun. The illum on the SnB is also better at low power.

 

[beetroot]

I have both the lrtsi 3-12 and the SnB 3-12 klassik illum mil/mil.
I prefer the SnB. Sits on my ultralight 204R coyote gun. The illum on the SnB is also better at low power.

I'm guessing the glass is better in the S&B?

 

[st1650]

I'm guessing the glass is better in the S&B?

Little bit, not a whole lot, but I prefer the reticle and illum at low light and low power. It's also a lighter scope, balances better on a lightweight gun.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I bojangled around yesterday about ordering one on the euro optic sale for $960 and now this morning when went back to do it they were out of stock.

 

[caberslash]

Depends on your pricepoint but I'm not sure if they make the top 3 as far as FFP hunting scopes under $1,500. There's been a hell of a lot of good word on the Maven RS1.2 2.5-15 lately and that's $1,200. Its reticle certainly seems like it was built for hunting and it's been successfully drop-tested (however much that matters to you). I wish Nightforce would learn to read and realize the "H" in "SHV" stands for hunter. Maybe that would cause them to make a reticle for the SHV that works well for hunting.

For under $1,500 it seems the usual options are Maven RS1.2 2.5-15, Nightforce SHV 4-14, and Trijicon Tenmile 3-18.

I'd take an Element over all three, as a scope that has actually been tested worldwide and just the word of some bloke randomly dropping it on a shooting mat and claiming that it's objective data.

 

[caberslash]

I bojangled around yesterday about ordering one on the euro optic sale for $960 and now this morning when went back to do it they were out of stock.

You didn't miss anything. Unless there is a special service for the Yanks, S&B Europe (home) has been a clusterfuck for QC and repairs.

 

[NateVA]

I'd take an Element over all three, as a scope that has actually been tested worldwide and just the word of some bloke randomly dropping it on a shooting mat and claiming that it's objective data.

I have no experience with Element so not disagreeing but other than Maven (which is new), Nightforce and Trijicon have also been tested worldwide.

 

[caberslash]

I have no experience with Element so not disagreeing but other than Maven (which is new), Nightforce and Trijicon have also been tested worldwide.

The brands yes, but individual models?

The NX8 (Japanese made at LOW) isn't comparable to the ATACR, and the NXS is 20 year old tech sold at new prices.

Trijicon also jumped on the OEM bandwagon, their high mag scopes are Japanese made (but so are Element).

So at the end of the day, we are comparing who specced the highest quality glass/most robust erector system vs. markup to customer.

Bushnell (RIP LRTS/LRHS), Vortex, and the cheaper Ziess models (V4, V6) are playing the same game.

 

[NateVA]

The brands yes, but individual models?

The NX8 (Japanese made at LOW) isn't comparable to the ATACR, and the NXS is 20 year old tech sold at new prices.

Trijicon also jumped on the OEM bandwagon, their high mag scopes are Japanese made (but so are Element).

So at the end of the day, we are comparing who specced the highest quality glass/most robust erector system vs. markup to customer.

Bushnell (RIP LRTS/LRHS), Vortex, and the cheaper Ziess models (V4, V6) are playing the same game.

To reiterate, I don't have a dog in this fight since I don't use any of those scopes (sold a couple SHVs awhile ago). As far as retaining zero there's nothing I'm putting up against a Nightforce of any kind. However, I also realize their SHV line comes with sacrifices and wish they felt enough market pressure to freshen things up on really all of their scope lines to be honest.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You didn't miss anything. Unless there is a special service for the Yanks, S&B Europe (home) has been a clusterfuck for QC and repairs.

Must suck to suck and have to live in Europe and deal with them because the USA service center is amazing. Being friends with the main guy and having his cell phone number is also beneficial.

 

[caberslash]

Must suck to suck and have to live in Europe and deal with them because the USA service center is amazing. Being friends with the main guy and having his cell phone number is also beneficial.

Does he do home delivers and bring beer too?

 

[caberslash]

To reiterate, I don't have a dog in this fight since I don't use any of those scopes (sold a couple SHVs awhile ago). As far as retaining zero there's nothing I'm putting up against a Nightforce of any kind. However, I also realize their SHV line comes with sacrifices and wish they felt enough market pressure to freshen things up on really all of their scope lines to be honest.

I'd need you to explain how it 'holds zero better'. 'Brand name makes it good' isn't an argument I'm willing to accept.

Sightron might as well be thrown into the mix as well, although they seem to fumble the execution when it comes to a 'hunting scope'.

Plenty on the F-Open lines though.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Does he do home delivers and bring beer too?

First time I met Jerry was at another friends house right outside of Winchester where he indeed hand deliver him back a scope.

 

[NateVA]

I'd need you to explain how it 'holds zero better'. 'Brand name makes it good' isn't an argument I'm willing to accept.

Passed droptesting (for whatever that's worth, it's not nothing) and otherwise basically never hear about any zero shift from them. People criticize the droptesting and I'm sure it could be done better. But no one else seems to be even bothering to try outside of them.

 

[beetroot]

Must suck to suck and have to live in Europe and deal with them because the USA service center is amazing. Being friends with the main guy and having his cell phone number is also beneficial.

Sounds like Germany is a bureaucratic nightmare, a friend orders an Anschutz 1761 direct from Germany (through the local agent) and it was a very very slow, painful process.

I've got an AI on order through Shooting Services in the UK, and it's been a breeze with them/the UK.

 

[6.5 GUY]

These are great hunting scopes! I have one, and a eleven year old PM II 5-25. I've had a lot of scopes go down, two NF ATACR's the 7-35 twice, a Kahles 3-12x42 9 years ago, even the S&B PM II, but that went the longest without any issues (10 years), vs the ATACR's. One Bushnell was totally bomb proof for 10 years of use that I sold last year, a newer one went in for service last Fall with the S&B, and the ATACR, the 5-25 is there now after finding out it was tracking ever so slightly off for most of it's life which really pissed me off.

When they go bad it's best they really go bad, and not the on again off again that sometimes happens, or like the 5-25 ATACR that was a real PITA due to it's tracking issue that only really revealed itself way out there.

A "check scope light" would be super to have when things start to go AWOL, but that's a pipe dream.