Rifle Scopes S&B PM II parallax question

[HRM81312]

Has anyone ever had issues with parallax maxing out? By that I mean at 100m parallax is at 300-500m to be clear and at 300m parallax is maxed out to infinity and still isn’t clear. I set up the ocular at max power, parallax @ infinity, and blue sky. Any other suggestion on what I messed up or should try?

 

[djarecke]

Don't use the parallax to focus your picture, do the "head wiggle" test to see if the scope has parallax error, adjust it out, and then focus the picture with the ocular adjustment. Both of my Schmidts seem to be VERY parallax sensitive at ranges less than 200 yards.

 

[taliv]

yep, i had this issue. sent it back. they fixed it

 

[delixe]

I found that with the PMII and the Steiner Military 5-25 the parallax didn't coincide with the focus.
What I found is that my ocular was not properly set.
Setup at 100 yards and adjust the parallax until parallax error is eliminated (you can move your eye within the eyebox and the target does not move relative to the reticle). Now adjust the ocular until the target is in focus. Once I did this, the reticle was still in focus, and the target was in focus at the same point in the parallax adjustment where parallax error was eliminated, at any distance. You should only have to do this once, you should never have to touch the ocular again.

 

[Aries64]

Has anyone ever had issues with parallax maxing out? By that I mean at 100m parallax is at 300-500m to be clear and at 300m parallax is maxed out to infinity and still isn’t clear. I set up the ocular at max power, parallax @ infinity, and blue sky. Any other suggestion on what I messed up or should try?

Just to be clear, when you say that you "set up the ocular at max power" are you saying that you set the magnification to maximum (25X) power, or are you saying that you set the Ocular Lens (Diopter) to maximum power? Clarification is necessary here, TIA.


Keith

 

[Aries64]

Take the time to PROPERLY set the Diopter FIRST!

Don't use the parallax to focus your picture, do the "head wiggle" test to see if the scope has parallax error, adjust it out, and then focus the picture with the ocular adjustment. Both of my Schmidts seem to be VERY parallax sensitive at ranges less than 200 yards.

I found that with the PMII and the Steiner Military 5-25 the parallax didn't coincide with the focus.
What I found is that my ocular was not properly set.
Setup at 100 yards and adjust the parallax until parallax error is eliminated (you can move your eye within the eyebox and the target does not move relative to the reticle). Now adjust the ocular until the target is in focus. Once I did this, the reticle was still in focus, and the target was in focus at the same point in the parallax adjustment where parallax error was eliminated, at any distance. You should only have to do this once, you should never have to touch the ocular again.

Maybe you two are having problems with the Parallax setting on your scopes is because you're misusing the Ocular Lens (Diopter) and the Parallax adjustment. The Ocular (Diopter) is only used to focus the Reticle - once it's correctly set for your eye you should never have to touch it except to compensate for vision changes. Setting the Ocular/Diopter is the first thing that should be done after the scope is mounted for correct eye relief. The Parallax Knob is used to set the scope to be parallax-fee at a given distance. Parallax and focus aren't the same thing but they're closely related. The parallax-free setting and the point at which the target is in focus should be very close - this is because at that setting the target image and the reticle are on the same focal plane.

You two are adjusting the Parallax and Ocular (Diopter) in reverse order. After mounting the scope for correct eye relief you set the Parallax to Infinity, crank the Magnification to maximum, then slowly and carefully set Diopter. Setting the Diopter perfectly is tedious and painstaking work, but it's well worth the effort because you'll have a much easier time adjusting the scope to be parallax-free with a razor-sharp target picture (environmental conditions notwithstanding).

Below is the correct procedure for Diopter (Ocular/Eyepiece) adjustment for both fixed and variable power scopes. The procedure is the same regardless of scope manufacturer, or whether the objective/parallax focus is on the objective ring or is a side focus type.

NOTE: If the scope is a fixed power unit skip steps 1 and 2 as they do not apply.

(1) Turn the magnification ring to maximum (highest power).

(2) Turn the Parallax focus to "Infinity" (the symbol for Infinity looks like a figure eight). NOTE: Most non-side focus scopes use a ring on the objective bell to adjust parallax, and the distances are usually numbered. Side focus Parallax adjustment knobs may or may not have distances marked.

(3) Turn the Ocular Lens (Diopter)/Eyepiece all the way in (on PMIIs' that's counter-clockwise).

(4) Aim the scope at a cloudless section of the sky (you don't want anything except sky in the view, or else your eye will naturally attempt to focus on the object(s) in the view beyond the reticle. Also, the human eye is drawn to movement: Movement distracts the eye, and clouds are often in motion.

(5) Look at something nearby, but not too close, then look through the scope at the reticle. If the reticle is out-of-focus turn it a bit to begin to focusing the reticle, but look away from the scope. Never look at the reticle for more than a couple of seconds when adjusting the eyepiece (if you look at the reticle for more than a second or two your eye will naturally begin to adjust to bring the reticle into focus - and you don't want this to happen. You want to be able to look through the scope and see a sharply focused reticle immediately with your eye relaxed. This cannot be achieved by continuously looking through the scope and turning the eyepiece into focus in one continuous motion because your eye will have already begun to adjust.

Note that the threads on Diopter adjustments are normally very fine, so you may have to turn the Diopter more than you might expect before any appreciable difference in reticle focus is discernable. You will most likely have to make several small adjustments before you get the reticle perfectly and finely-focused for your eye, but it is very important that you do so. A lot of shooters' "chase the focus" because they didn't set their diopter adjustment correctly when they initially set-up the scope.

Remember, look away every few seconds and make small adjustments to dial-in the Ocular/Diopter/Eyepiece focus. Once you have achieved this, you should not adjust the eyepiece at all, except to maintain sharp reticle focus as your vision changes over time (it always does). You may want to put a pen mark on the eyepiece indexed to the index dot on the scope tube - if the tube doesn't have an index mark use a pencil. That way, if someone else shoots your rifle and adjusts the Ocular you know where to return the adjustment to.

If you cannot achieve simultaneous reticle and image focus after following the above directions for Ocular/Diopter/Eyepiece Focus, it is possible that there is a problem with the scope.

NOTE: Setting the diopter at the extreme end of it's adjustment range in either direction can affect the image focus. Also, since all of the lenses in a scope except for the reticle are curved, when using aggressively canted bases (as suggested by S & B for their PMII line) the eye may be pushed out of center of the lens very slightly blurring the reticle, although good eye alignment and head position pretty much eliminate this. I wear glasses (20/15 corrected) and I don't have this problem and I use 45 MOA bases with my PMII 5-25X[56] scopes. The quality of the lenses and coatings, and the user's vision, i.e. astigmatism, can also affect the reticle focus.


Keith

 

[HRM81312]

Just to be clear, when you say that you "set up the ocular at max power" are you saying that you set the magnification to maximum (25X) power, or are you saying that you set the Ocular Lens (Diopter) to maximum power? Clarification is necessary here, TIA.


Keith

Good question, I set up the diopter with the scope set at max magnification.
Just a quick update, I contacted the vendor who sold the scope last night and all I can say is their customer services is out of this world. For work I lead a team of sales people and we are always talking about making a "great customer experience". Europtic and S&B have the customer experience and customer service figured out and both are exceptional. You would think that after having an issue with a product that I, the consumer, should be upset right....not when your treated the way these two have treated me. I contacted the vendor last night, he immediately contacted S&B USA, and they were in touch within the hour. Scope got sent to them this AM to get adjusted and they will overnight it back. That is a customer experience worth sharing. It takes a special effort to turn someone with an issue into a happy customer and these guys did it.

 

[delixe]

Maybe you two are having problems with the Parallax setting on your scopes is because you're misusing the Ocular Lens (Diopter) and the Parallax adjustment. The Ocular (Diopter) is only used to focus the Reticle - once it's correctly set for your eye you should never have to touch it except to compensate for vision changes. Setting the Ocular/Diopter is the first thing that should be done after the scope is mounted for correct eye relief. The Parallax Knob is used to set the scope to be parallax-fee at a given distance. Parallax and focus aren't the same thing but they're closely related. The parallax-free setting and the point at which the target is in focus should be very close - this is because at that setting the target image and the reticle are on the same focal plane.

You two are adjusting the Parallax and Ocular (Diopter) in reverse order. After mounting the scope for correct eye relief you set the Parallax to Infinity, crank the Magnification to maximum, then slowly and carefully set Diopter. Setting the Diopter perfectly is tedious and painstaking work, but it's well worth the effort because you'll have a much easier time adjusting the scope to be parallax-free with a razor-sharp target picture (environmental conditions notwithstanding).

Below is the correct procedure for Diopter (Ocular/Eyepiece) adjustment for both fixed and variable power scopes. The procedure is the same regardless of scope manufacturer, or whether the objective/parallax focus is on the objective ring or is a side focus type.

NOTE: If the scope is a fixed power unit skip steps 1 and 2 as they do not apply.

(1) Turn the magnification ring to maximum (highest power).

(2) Turn the Parallax focus to "Infinity" (the symbol for Infinity looks like a figure eight). NOTE: Most non-side focus scopes use a ring on the objective bell to adjust parallax, and the distances are usually numbered. Side focus Parallax adjustment knobs may or may not have distances marked.

(3) Turn the Ocular Lens (Diopter)/Eyepiece all the way in (on PMIIs' that's counter-clockwise).

(4) Aim the scope at a cloudless section of the sky (you don't want anything except sky in the view, or else your eye will naturally attempt to focus on the object(s) in the view beyond the reticle. Also, the human eye is drawn to movement: Movement distracts the eye, and clouds are often in motion.

(5) Look at something nearby, but not too close, then look through the scope at the reticle. If the reticle is out-of-focus turn it a bit to begin to focusing the reticle, but look away from the scope. Never look at the reticle for more than a couple of seconds when adjusting the eyepiece (if you look at the reticle for more than a second or two your eye will naturally begin to adjust to bring the reticle into focus - and you don't want this to happen. You want to be able to look through the scope and see a sharply focused reticle immediately with your eye relaxed. This cannot be achieved by continuously looking through the scope and turning the eyepiece into focus in one continuous motion because your eye will have already begun to adjust.

Note that the threads on Diopter adjustments are normally very fine, so you may have to turn the Diopter more than you might expect before any appreciable difference in reticle focus is discernable. You will most likely have to make several small adjustments before you get the reticle perfectly and finely-focused for your eye, but it is very important that you do so. A lot of shooters' "chase the focus" because they didn't set their diopter adjustment correctly when they initially set-up the scope.

Remember, look away every few seconds and make small adjustments to dial-in the Ocular/Diopter/Eyepiece focus. Once you have achieved this, you should not adjust the eyepiece at all, except to maintain sharp reticle focus as your vision changes over time (it always does). You may want to put a pen mark on the eyepiece indexed to the index dot on the scope tube - if the tube doesn't have an index mark use a pencil. That way, if someone else shoots your rifle and adjusts the Ocular you know where to return the adjustment to.

If you cannot achieve simultaneous reticle and image focus after following the above directions for Ocular/Diopter/Eyepiece Focus, it is possible that there is a problem with the scope.

NOTE: Setting the diopter at the extreme end of it's adjustment range in either direction can affect the image focus. Also, since all of the lenses in a scope except for the reticle are curved, when using aggressively canted bases (as suggested by S & B for their PMII line) the eye may be pushed out of center of the lens very slightly blurring the reticle, although good eye alignment and head position pretty much eliminate this. I wear glasses (20/15 corrected) and I don't have this problem and I use 45 MOA bases with my PMII 5-25X[56] scopes. The quality of the lenses and coatings, and the user's vision, i.e. astigmatism, can also affect the reticle focus.


Keith

Thanks, I am full aware of the standard procedure for adjusting the diopter, and can even describe it without writing a novel.
When I get a new scope, I adjust the diopter to best focus the reticle, and usually that's enough.
However, with the PMII and Steiner Military, this was not enough. These 2 scopes had not a single point, but a range of diopter adjustment within which the reticle focused. However, there was only one position in the diopter adjustment at which the reticle was in focus AND the target was both parallax free and in focus at the same parallax setting.

 

[Aries64]

Don't use the parallax to focus your picture, do the "head wiggle" test to see if the scope has parallax error, adjust it out, and then focus the picture with the ocular adjustment. Both of my Schmidts seem to be VERY parallax sensitive at ranges less than 200 yards.

I found that with the PMII and the Steiner Military 5-25 the parallax didn't coincide with the focus.
What I found is that my ocular was not properly set.
Setup at 100 yards and adjust the parallax until parallax error is eliminated (you can move your eye within the eyebox and the target does not move relative to the reticle). Now adjust the ocular until the target is in focus. Once I did this, the reticle was still in focus, and the target was in focus at the same point in the parallax adjustment where parallax error was eliminated, at any distance. You should only have to do this once, you should never have to touch the ocular again.

Maybe you two are having problems with the Parallax setting on your scopes is because you're misusing the Ocular Lens (Diopter) and the Parallax adjustment. The Ocular (Diopter) is only used to focus the Reticle - once it's correctly set for your eye you should never have to touch it except to compensate for vision changes. Setting the Ocular/Diopter is the first thing that should be done after the scope is mounted for correct eye relief. The Parallax Knob is used to set the scope to be parallax-fee at a given distance. Parallax and focus aren't the same thing but they're closely related. The parallax-free setting and the point at which the target is in focus should be very close - this is because at that setting the target image and the reticle are on the same focal plane.

You two are adjusting the Parallax and Ocular (Diopter) in reverse order. After mounting the scope for correct eye relief you set the Parallax to Infinity, crank the Magnification to maximum, then slowly and carefully set Diopter. Setting the Diopter perfectly is tedious and painstaking work, but it's well worth the effort because you'll have a much easier time adjusting the scope to be parallax-free with a razor-sharp target picture (environmental conditions notwithstanding).

Below is the correct procedure for Diopter (Ocular/Eyepiece) adjustment for both fixed and variable power scopes. The procedure is the same regardless of scope manufacturer, or whether the objective/parallax focus is on the objective ring or is a side focus type.

NOTE: If the scope is a fixed power unit skip steps 1 and 2 as they do not apply.

(1) Turn the magnification ring to maximum (highest power).

(2) Turn the Parallax focus to "Infinity" (the symbol for Infinity looks like a figure eight). NOTE: Most non-side focus scopes use a ring on the objective bell to adjust parallax, and the distances are usually numbered. Side focus Parallax adjustment knobs may or may not have distances marked.

(3) Turn the Ocular Lens (Diopter)/Eyepiece all the way in (on PMIIs' that's counter-clockwise).

(4) Aim the scope at a cloudless section of the sky (you don't want anything except sky in the view, or else your eye will naturally attempt to focus on the object(s) in the view beyond the reticle. Also, the human eye is drawn to movement: Movement distracts the eye, and clouds are often in motion.

(5) Look at something nearby, but not too close, then look through the scope at the reticle. If the reticle is out-of-focus turn it a bit to begin to focusing the reticle, but look away from the scope. Never look at the reticle for more than a couple of seconds when adjusting the eyepiece (if you look at the reticle for more than a second or two your eye will naturally begin to adjust to bring the reticle into focus - and you don't want this to happen. You want to be able to look through the scope and see a sharply focused reticle immediately with your eye relaxed. This cannot be achieved by continuously looking through the scope and turning the eyepiece into focus in one continuous motion because your eye will have already begun to adjust.

Note that the threads on Diopter adjustments are normally very fine, so you may have to turn the Diopter more than you might expect before any appreciable difference in reticle focus is discernable. You will most likely have to make several small adjustments before you get the reticle perfectly and finely-focused for your eye, but it is very important that you do so. A lot of shooters' "chase the focus" because they didn't set their diopter adjustment correctly when they initially set-up the scope.

Remember, look away every few seconds and make small adjustments to dial-in the Ocular/Diopter/Eyepiece focus. Once you have achieved this, you should not adjust the eyepiece at all, except to maintain sharp reticle focus as your vision changes over time (it always does). You may want to put a pen mark on the eyepiece indexed to the index dot on the scope tube - if the tube doesn't have an index mark use a pencil. That way, if someone else shoots your rifle and adjusts the Ocular you know where to return the adjustment to.

If you cannot achieve simultaneous reticle and image focus after following the above directions for Ocular/Diopter/Eyepiece Focus, it is possible that there is a problem with the scope.

NOTE: Setting the diopter at the extreme end of it's adjustment range in either direction can affect the image focus. Also, since all of the lenses in a scope except for the reticle are curved, when using aggressively canted bases (as suggested by S & B for their PMII line) the eye may be pushed out of center of the lens very slightly blurring the reticle, although good eye alignment and head position pretty much eliminate this. I wear glasses (20/15 corrected) and I don't have this problem and I use 45 MOA bases with my PMII 5-25X[56] scopes. The quality of the lenses and coatings, and the user's vision, i.e. astigmatism, can also affect the reticle focus.


Keith

Thanks, I am full aware of the standard procedure for adjusting the diopter, and can even describe it without writing a novel.

It certainly doesn't seem so since in your reply to the OP you stated that you adjust the parallax first, then adjust the Ocular (Diopter) until the target is in focus. Here is again, those two sentences bolded:

I found that with the PMII and the Steiner Military 5-25 the parallax didn't coincide with the focus.
What I found is that my ocular was not properly set.
Setup at 100 yards and adjust the parallax until parallax error is eliminated (you can move your eye within the eyebox and the target does not move relative to the reticle). Now adjust the ocular until the target is in focus. Once I did this, the reticle was still in focus, and the target was in focus at the same point in the parallax adjustment where parallax error was eliminated, at any distance. You should only have to do this once, you should never have to touch the ocular again.

Or I, (and everyone who understands what's going-on here), can give the benefit of the doubt and take your word for it that you completely miswrote your reply to djarecke (the OP), and actually know and understand why the Ocular/Diopter must be set first instead of reading my reply and then unsuccessfully attempting to backtrack your way out of what you stated before by now stating that you adjust your scope in a manner that is the exact opposite way of what you stated before.

Your old tune:

"...Setup at 100 yards and adjust the parallax until parallax error is eliminated (you can move your eye within the eyebox and the target does not move relative to the reticle). Now adjust the ocular until the target is in focus...."

Your new tune:

"When I get a new scope, I adjust the diopter to best focus the reticle, and usually that's enough".

There's a very good reason for the "issues" you have below, and I surmise that if you actually set the Oculars/Diopters properly first, really fine-tuning them you wouldn't have been futzing with your scopes so much in order to get them parallax-free and in focus.

However, with the PMII and Steiner Military, this was not enough. These 2 scopes had not a single point, but a range of diopter adjustment within which the reticle focused. However, there was only one position in the diopter adjustment at which the reticle was in focus AND the target was both parallax free and in focus at the same parallax setting.

The threads on the Ocular/Diopter are very fine, so it typically takes close to a 1/4 revolution for a substantial change to the focus. This is why multiple, small adjustments are necessary to really fine tune the reticle focus and why doing it right is time-consuming. Setting the Diopter correctly and accurately for your eye establishes a baseline that affects the parallax focus down the line, and any error in setting the Ocular/Diopter multiplies as magnification and distance increase (hence the reason the Magnification to set to maximum and the Parallax set to "Infinity". And of course, the operator must keep looking away frequently between the small focus adjustments so that his/her eye doesn't compensate for any change. This means quick "peeps" of no more than 2 or 3 seconds at a time.



Keith

 

[delixe]

It certainly doesn't seem so since in your reply to the OP you stated that you adjust the parallax first, then adjust the Ocular (Diopter) until the target is in focus. Here is again, those two sentences bolded:



Or I, (and everyone who understands what's going-on here), can give the benefit of the doubt and take your word for it that you completely miswrote your reply to djarecke (the OP), and actually know and understand why the Ocular/Diopter must be set first instead of reading my reply and then unsuccessfully attempting to backtrack your way out of what you stated before by now stating that you adjust your scope in a manner that is the exact opposite way of what you stated before.

Your old tune:

Your new tune:


There's a very good reason for the "issues" you have below, and I surmise that if you actually set the Oculars/Diopters properly first, really fine-tuning them you wouldn't have been futzing with your scopes so much in order to get them parallax-free and in focus.


The threads on the Ocular/Diopter are very fine, so it typically takes close to a 1/4 revolution for a substantial change to the focus. This is why multiple, small adjustments are necessary to really fine tune the reticle focus and why doing it right is time-consuming. Setting the Diopter correctly and accurately for your eye establishes a baseline that affects the parallax focus down the line, and any error in setting the Ocular/Diopter multiplies as magnification and distance increase (hence the reason the Magnification to set to maximum and the Parallax set to "Infinity". And of course, the operator must keep looking away frequently between the small focus adjustments so that his/her eye doesn't compensate for any change. This means quick "peeps" of no more than 2 or 3 seconds at a time.



Keith

I assumed the OP had bothered to do at least a preliminary diopter tuning, being as he never stated the reticle was out of focus.

I have every bit the experience and know how you do with optics you pompous ass.
I've owned, through the years, the PMII, Steiner Military 5-25, March 3-24 FFP, USO ER25, a handful of Bushnell ETs, Zeiss Diavari, and more.
The Steiner and the PMII had an unusually wide (compared to the others) range of diopter adjustment within which the reticle appeared focused to my eye.
Further, none of the other scopes required me to touch the diopter after the initial setting. With every one of the other scopes, I adjusted the diopter once after mounting the scope; afterwards which, when the target was in focus regardless of the distance, parallax error was nonexistent when moving my eye inside the eyebox.

Frankly I don't give a rat's ass whether you understand what I've written.
My intention was to help the OP.
When I posted this same "fine tuning of the diopter routine" in another thread months ago, several members here tried it and agreed.

Why don't you go back to talking up that POS Optolyth spotter you're so fond of, you know, the model I bought based on your recommendation that turned out to be the worst spotter I've ever looked through, that I lost my ass on selling because everyone knows what a POS it is, after I was unable to get any support from the importer (Valdada) or the manufacturer (Optolyth Germany)?

 

[diverdon]

I assumed the OP had bothered to do at least a preliminary diopter tuning, being as he never stated the reticle was out of focus.

I have every bit the experience and know how you do with optics you pompous ass.
I've owned, through the years, the PMII, Steiner Military 5-25, March 3-24 FFP, USO ER25, a handful of Bushnell ETs, Zeiss Diavari, and more.
The Steiner and the PMII had an unusually wide (compared to the others) range of diopter adjustment within which the reticle appeared focused to my eye.
Further, none of the other scopes required me to touch the diopter after the initial setting. With every one of the other scopes, I adjusted the diopter once after mounting the scope; afterwards which, when the target was in focus regardless of the distance, parallax error was nonexistent when moving my eye inside the eyebox.

Frankly I don't give a rat's ass whether you understand what I've written.
My intention was to help the OP.
When I posted this same "fine tuning of the diopter routine" in another thread months ago, several members here tried it and agreed.

Why don't you go back to talking up that POS Optolyth spotter you're so fond of, you know, the model I bought based on your recommendation that turned out to be the worst spotter I've ever looked through, that I lost my ass on selling because everyone knows what a POS it is, after I was unable to get any support from the importer (Valdada) or the manufacturer (Optolyth Germany)?

You bought an Optolyth? Holy shit you must be dumb, no wonder you can not explain how to adjust a scope.

 

[Tristian19]

To Op: Nope, have not had that issue or ANY issue with either of my SB PMII's.

sent via Tapatalk

 

[Aries64]

Good question, I set up the diopter with the scope set at max magnification.

I thought I posted this before, but I guess I got distracted and forgot to hit the "Submit Reply" button before I replied to delixe. Anyway, you might have been on the right track but for now it's a moot point since your scope will be going back to S & B now. As I stated above, the correct procedure for setting the Diopter setting does require that the magnification be set to maximum power, and you do have to turn the Diopter all the way in counter-clockwise (in effect increasing the Diopter's compensation to maximum) as a starting point when you adjust the Ocular/Diopter. However, when properly and correctly adjusted for someone's eye the Diopter is usually adjusted so it doesn't stay at the "full" setting.

Just a quick update, I contacted the vendor who sold the scope last night and all I can say is their customer services is out of this world. For work I lead a team of sales people and we are always talking about making a "great customer experience". Europtic and S&B have the customer experience and customer service figured out and both are exceptional. You would think that after having an issue with a product that I, the consumer, should be upset right....not when your treated the way these two have treated me. I contacted the vendor last night, he immediately contacted S&B USA, and they were in touch within the hour. Scope got sent to them this AM to get adjusted and they will overnight it back. That is a customer experience worth sharing. It takes a special effort to turn someone with an issue into a happy customer and these guys did it.

I don't think someone should get upset because their new __________ has some apparent issue. Stuff happens, and even specimens of "mature" high end products sometimes have issues when brand new. The main thing is how the company takes care of (or doesn't take care of you). At the same time I can think of several scope manufacturer's that have, and have had this type of reputation for years despite assurances and ISO Certification. In this type of scenario I don't give a shit how good the Customer Service is when out-of-the-box defects are the norm rather than the exception and scopes have to make multiple trips back to the manufacturer just to get them functioning as they should have before leaving the QC section. Part of Customer Service is sound design, excellent manufacturing, and tight Quality Control to help ensure that defects are caught before the scope ever gets packed and shipped-out.

Anyway, I trust that the Vendor and S & B will get you sorted out quickly.


Keith

 

[19Scout77]

This thread sure could use 3 or 4 pictures of a 5-25 on top of a Tac Ops rifle...

 

[Tristian19]

This thread sure could use 3 or 4 pictures of a 5-25 on top of a Tac Ops rifle...

If only I had one I would post pics. [emoji6]

sent via Tapatalk

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

I assumed the OP had bothered to do at least a preliminary diopter tuning, being as he never stated the reticle was out of focus.

I have every bit the experience and know how you do with optics you pompous ass.

Frankly I don't give a rat's ass whether you understand what I've written.
My intention was to help the OP.

First off, don't fuck with Keith. He is grade "A" and knows what he is talking about. The proof is in your writings and you fucked up, admit.

Second, stop giving bad advice to people. Just don't do it. Either you know what you are talking about or you do not.

Let us know when you have had enough humble pie and want to join us again here in the real world. Carry on.

 

[Black Ops]

This thread sure could use 3 or 4 pictures of a 5-25 on top of a Tac Ops rifle...

Is there a reason why you follow Keith around The Hide and shit in his threads ? Keith is most imformative , articulate and very professional with all of his posts. Why don't you enlighten us as to why you come in on a thread like this and have to be sarcastic 19Scout77 ?

It is apparent you are trying to attack Tac Ops through Keith I could be wrong but after searching many of your previous post its clear I'm not wrong.

I'm sure we would accept your apology if it were sincere...


Mike
Tac Ops

 

[19Scout77]

Mike, I could not not possibly care less about tac ops and your rifles. Contrary to your representation, i do not shit on Keiths threads, rather I shit on Keith himself when he choses to make every thread, started by others, that may be tangentially related to a SB etc an opportunity to impress us all with pictures of his safe queen. Despite your desire to make this about you, it isnt, nor has it ever been. A little paranoid are we? Keith on the otherhand is a know it all self-important douche bag.

 

[Aries64]

Sniper’s Hide readers: I apologize for posting this as I see and use internet forums such as the Sniper’s Hide as a place to learn and (when I can), to help others. To this end I have always done my best to be respectful to others and to focus on and to remain focused on information relevant to the topic or topics that the OP (original poster) posted about. Of course, as threads evolve new information, questions and answers arise, but all of that should be organic, logical extensions of the topic(s) at hand. Comments un-related to the topic(s) at hand detract from threads and hurt people who are genuinely interested in learning and what’s being discussed, so I usually refrain from replying to these posts. That said, I have to call 19Scout77 out on his BS and his reply to Black Ops/Mike Rescigno:

This thread sure could use 3 or 4 pictures of a 5-25 on top of a Tac Ops rifle...

Is there a reason why you follow Keith around The Hide and shit in his threads ? Keith is most imformative , articulate and very professional with all of his posts. Why don't you enlighten us as to why you come in on a thread like this and have to be sarcastic 19Scout77 ?

It is apparent you are trying to attack Tac Ops through Keith I could be wrong but after searching many of your previous post its clear I'm not wrong.

I'm sure we would accept your apology if it were sincere...


Mike
Tac Ops

Mike, I could not not possibly care less about tac ops and your rifles. Contrary to your representation, i do not shit on Keiths threads, rather I shit on Keith himself when he choses to make every thread, started by others, that may be tangentially related to a SB etc an opportunity to impress us all with pictures of his safe queen. Despite your desire to make this about you, it isnt, nor has it ever been. A little paranoid are we? Keith on the otherhand is a know it all self-important douche bag.

Quite contrary to what you say, for some reason you've had a hard-on for Tac Ops for years. You're a Hater, and knowing that I shoot a Tac Ops rifle and that I know Mike Rescigno personally you've stalked me in threads for some time now. Regardless of who started the thread or the topics being discussed, you sometimes post in threads I’ve posted in. However, you don't discuss any topic within those threads or try to help people – you only post off-topic quips within these threads. These are ad hominem attacks pure and simple. An example is your first post in this thread:

This thread sure could use 3 or 4 pictures of a 5-25 on top of a Tac Ops rifle...

The OP asked if anyone has ever had issues with their PMII's Parallax maxxing-out. As incorrectly setting of the Ocular/Diopter seems to be pretty common I discussed and posted how the Diopter/Ocular should be set and fine-tuned and that failure to correctly-set the Diopter could throw-off the settings down the line. I was being as informative on the subject as possible and trying to help the OP and subsequent posters and readers. However, I didn't post photos of any of my rifles, nor did I mention that I have a Tac Ops rifle with a PMII on it. Yet out-of-the-blue (again), you come out of the woodwork to post another useless comment totally un-related to anything being discussed in the thread.

You should realize that just because someone doesn't shoot "tactical" competitions or ding-up their gear a lot doesn't mean their rifles aren't used or that they're "safe queens". My rifle sees plenty of rounds, but I don't have to scratch my gear up to enjoy shooting. I'm more about shooting at and hitting half and sub half MOA targets at distance using a rifle in a caliber that requires more skill or luck to hit small targets at distance whether they be paper, steel, or rocks.

If you want to label my Tac Ops rifle a safe queen because I don't shoot "tactical" comps OK, whatever. But stop bashing Tac Ops. If you really knew what you're talking about and had experience with Tac Ops rifles and those who use them everyday you'd know that they're the real deal and you wouldn't talk shit about them - maybe you'd even stop stalking me. I can assure you that with approximately 800 TEAMS worldwide using Tac Ops rifles that Tac Ops rifles are definitely NOT safe queens. They're battle and duty-proven by operators in the field everyday.

Again, my apologies to the Snipers Hide readership for the thread detour, but it’s time that someone called 19Scout77 on his BS, disrespect, and poor etiquette. Thank you for your time and consideration. I'm finished here.


Keith

 

[jerseymike]

 

[jerseymike]

19scout77, you my friend are the....




Puwahahaha.

 

[Send__It]

So what exactly does it do for you shitting on Keith through Snipers Hide? It sure as hell does nothing for this forum or thread for that matter. If you want to make your own "I hate Keith" thread then do so, but coming in and dropping one liners that has nothing to do with a thread is childish and portrays that your just a "hater." Im not sure what your ultimate goal is here but If you have issues with Keith then deal with it through PM's.

 

[delixe]

Bullshit.
I never claimed I was providing instruction for setting an ocular.
My experience, confirmed by others here in the past, is that both of these 5x erector German made scopes (perhaps because of their unusually large depth of field) have a wide range of diopter setting within which the reticle appears focused, but a very narrow range where the reticle is in focus and the parallax "aligns" with the focus of the target. Of all the scopes I've owned, they are the only 2 that required tweaking the diopter after its initial setting.
6 months ago I posted the very same technique here and several Hiders facing the same issue tried it, and it worked.

Have you faced the same issue and tried to correct it with my technique?

If you haven't then what exactly have you contributed here?

First off, don't fuck with Keith. He is grade "A" and knows what he is talking about. The proof is in your writings and you fucked up, admit.

Second, stop giving bad advice to people. Just don't do it. Either you know what you are talking about or you do not.

Let us know when you have had enough humble pie and want to join us again here in the real world. Carry on.

 

[Aries64]

I assumed the OP had bothered to do at least a preliminary diopter tuning, being as he never stated the reticle was out of focus.

I have every bit the experience and know how you do with optics you pompous ass.

Frankly I don't give a rat's ass whether you understand what I've written.
My intention was to help the OP.

First off, don't fuck with Keith. He is grade "A" and knows what he is talking about. The proof is in your writings and you fucked up, admit.

Second, stop giving bad advice to people. Just don't do it. Either you know what you are talking about or you do not.

Let us know when you have had enough humble pie and want to join us again here in the real world. Carry on.

Bullshit.
I never claimed I was providing instruction for setting an ocular.

Bullshit is right. Bullshit on your part. NevadaZielmeister never claimed that you said that you were providing instruction for setting an ocular. By "The proof is in your writings and you fucked up, admit", NevadaZielmeister is referring to the fact (as I also pointed-out several times using your own words by quoting you), that you (a) don't know the correct procedures for scope set-up, (b) gave incorrect advice to the OP "trying to help the OP", (c) that you attempted to back-track your way out of what you wrote about how you adjust a scope, (d) and that even though you have been clearly been busted several times, you just can't admit you made a mistake and are still trying to bullshit your way out.

Stop trying to spin things to make it appear you're right. Anyone who has any reasonable reading comprehension skills and has read through this thread can see that you're clearly in the wrong, that you don't know the correct procedure for setting the Ocular/Diopter, that you provided an incorrect method for adjusting both the Parallax and the Ocular/Diopter to others, and that you some type of learning disorder, a lack of reading comprehension, or have an ego so large that you simply can't admit that you're wrong (or perhaps that someone besides you cannot be correct). Maybe it's a combination of several issues, I don't know.

My experience, confirmed by others here in the past, is that both of these 5x erector German made scopes (perhaps because of their unusually large depth of field) have a wide range of diopter setting within which the reticle appears focused,

The reason that the scopes have a wide range of on the Diopter/Ocular where the reticles appear to be in focus IS because they're designed that way. As I said above when I posted the procedure for the setting of the Diopter (Ocular/Eyepiece), "the threads on Diopter adjustments are normally very fine, so you may have to turn the Diopter more than you might expect before any appreciable difference in reticle focus is discernible".

but a very narrow range where the reticle is in focus and the parallax "aligns" with the focus of the target.

Correct setting of the Diopter/Ocular pretty much precludes having to re-adjust it unless your vision changes. When the Diopter/Ocular has been carefully fine-tuned using the procedure I posted above the reticle will remain in razor-sharp focus regardless of the Parallax setting. Turning the Parallax Knob to the point where the target image is sharp you'll be at or very close to the the parallax-free setting for the particular distance the target is located at.

Of all the scopes I've owned, they are the only 2 that required tweaking the diopter after its initial setting.
6 months ago I posted the very same technique here and several Hiders facing the same issue tried it, and it worked.

If you follow the correct procedure as I outlined above you wouldn't have to tweak the Diopter/Ocular after it's initial setting. (You had advised the OP to "Setup at 100 yards and adjust the parallax until parallax error is eliminated", and then to "adjust the ocular until the target is in focus"). Which, of course is incorrect.

Have you faced the same issue and tried to correct it with my technique?

If you haven't then what exactly have you contributed here?

NevadaZielmeister didn't have to try your "technique". He found a post of mine from a couple of years ago where I had posted the correct procedure for setting the Diopter/Ocular (same procedure as I posted above), and followed it. And he can confirm that after following said procedure he's never had to re-adjust his Diopter/Ocular to get the target image razor-sharp with parallax eliminated. This is the same procedure that I've been using for 40+ years and posting online for decades.

BTW, calling me a "pompous ass" is the pot calling the kettle black. You should look the mirror - there's your example. You beat your chest, post incorrect procedures that lead others astray, and call people names. Way to go dude. I'm sure your parents are very proud of you.



Keith

 

[Jerry R]

Back on topic......

I had his scope here at the service center yesterday and as suspected, his parallax was slightly out of calibration. Once set properly he now has a crystal clear image from 10m to 2+ miles and dioption is dead on where it should be and the optic performs flawlessly as intended.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

Back on topic......

I had his scope here at the service center yesterday and as suspected, his parallax was slightly out of calibration. Once set properly he now has a crystal clear image from 10m to 2+ miles and dioption is dead on where it should be and the optic performs flawlessly as intended.

Jerry,

How on Earth can anyone conduct better customer service than you? I am amazed that you would admit that it was out of calibration in a public forum. ANOTHER reason why I am so glad I purchased a Schmidt and Bender. I have never heard of a bad customer service experience with your company. You guys are very honest and up front. Thank you.

 

[Jerry R]

I call it like I see it and feel that dishonesty is not a good policy.

 

[Aries64]

Jerry rocks!

Back on topic......

I had his scope here at the service center yesterday and as suspected, his parallax was slightly out of calibration. Once set properly he now has a crystal clear image from 10m to 2+ miles and dioption is dead on where it should be and the optic performs flawlessly as intended.

Jerry,

How on Earth can anyone conduct better customer service than you? I am amazed that you would admit that it was out of calibration in a public forum. ANOTHER reason why I am so glad I purchased a Schmidt and Bender. I have never heard of a bad customer service experience with your company. You guys are very honest and up front. Thank you.

Maybe because Jerry and the rest of the staff at the S & B Service Center rock. In my experience and when within his control JerryR has always handled services at S & B in a timely, professional manner. I was pleased when S & B opened the initial S & B USA Service Center in New Hampshire in 2010, as that reduced the down time on S & B scopes tremendously because the scopes no longer had to be shipped to Germany for service. We're talking months to weeks, sometimes less.

BTW Jerry, I saw your thread about the S & B USA Service Center re-locating (again), to Winchester, Virginia - reducing your drive from an hour to less than 10 minutes. Congratulations! That's certainly a welcome change for you.


Keith

 

[djarecke]

Great to hear. Enjoy that scope!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HRM81312]

Got the scope back from Jerry and team this afternoon. All is good and yes, their service and turn-around time is truly amazing. Many thanks to you and EurOptic for getting me in touch with you almost immediately.