where does the pmii land between the zco and nightforce? Considering putting one of these 3 on my AXSR. W/o considering reticles whats the better scope?
Thanks guys.
Thanks guys.
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S&B PMii 3-27 vs Zco 5-27 vs Nightforce 7-35
- Thread starter NateSavannah
- Start date
@NateSavannah give us a call at 916-670-1103, it'll be a somewhat long conversation that would take 4 times as long to type out
Regardless, we will assist you in your decision to find the correct option for your setup.
Before I could even begin to answer the question, I'd need to know a lot more about why you chose these three scopes in particular? Take the Schmidt 3-27 and NF 7-35, the biggest difference is not between 27x and 35x but between 3x and 7x, we are talking about an enormous amount of FOV. What situations do you feel would lend to that greater FOV on an AXSR (which I typically think of as a long range rifle that you're not going to be carrying for long distances). I was shooting ELR last month and we had everything from about 500 yards out to 1.5 miles for the majority of what we were shooting (yes we had 2 miles and 3 miles but that is a whole other ballgame with ELR that requires specialized equipment to be able to hold 60+ mils) and I used between 12-16x almost the entire time over multiple days, I never felt I needed more as I prefer having greater FOV especially transitioning from target to target and dealing with mirage (or rather the heat waves) can be bothersome at higher magnifications. The majority time higher magnification can really be of help is with LD (load development) and PID (positive identification), that and rimfire competitions where distances are typically under 500 yards.
If you could share some more details we (the community) can help a little more.
If my thoughts come across as if im drugged. its because i am. had neck surgery a couple days ago. so bear w/ me here.
Thermal clipons now have a permanent spot in my collection. So being good in front of a thermal is important. Ive heard the nightforce 7-35 doesnt do too well behind thermal clipons.
As for what Im doing w/ the rifle this lives on. Its a multicaliber setup that is my goto do everything bolt gun, flexibility is important. The gun I dont mind putting the miles on. Currently have 308 and 338 lap, will be adding 300 norma shortly.
Im a bit of a glass snob. Im always in a pursuit of the best.
So I guess my questions are.
Which one has the best glass? is there conversation other than a subjective one?
Any downsides to those models that I should be aware of? tunneling..... whatever else.
does the s&b 3-27 keep up w the zco?
I feel that from what ive read the nightforce is a step down in optical quality.
my zco 420 is one of the most impressive things Ive ever looked thru. blows my tt525 out of the water.
Thermal clipons now have a permanent spot in my collection. So being good in front of a thermal is important. Ive heard the nightforce 7-35 doesnt do too well behind thermal clipons.
As for what Im doing w/ the rifle this lives on. Its a multicaliber setup that is my goto do everything bolt gun, flexibility is important. The gun I dont mind putting the miles on. Currently have 308 and 338 lap, will be adding 300 norma shortly.
Im a bit of a glass snob. Im always in a pursuit of the best.
So I guess my questions are.
Which one has the best glass? is there conversation other than a subjective one?
Any downsides to those models that I should be aware of? tunneling..... whatever else.
does the s&b 3-27 keep up w the zco?
I feel that from what ive read the nightforce is a step down in optical quality.
my zco 420 is one of the most impressive things Ive ever looked thru. blows my tt525 out of the water.
If your happy with your current ZCO I don’t think you would be unhappy with another one. They seem to be top of the heap in optics currently. Decent amount for sale in px right now as well
I’m a NF ATACR guy but not running a clip on so can’t comment there. But I do like the 7-35’s I’ve used
If you’re a clipon fan, chances are you will benefit more from a magnification range that’s between 3-12 for FOV and ability to see FFP reticle. For this reason I would choose the one that you like best in the lower mag range, but still offers the top end you’re looking for during the day.
Favorable optics to be considered:
ZCO420
SB3-27
SB3-20
NF2.5-20
Hensoldt 3.5-26
@NateSavannah We have customers running both the ZC420 and ZC527's (with enough rail space) with clip ons, since the ZC420 impresses you than there is no reason why the ZC527 would not do the same
ZCO420 and be done with it. 4-8 with the clip on will be fine. You can go higher it will just be pixelated as the thermal is the weak link in the chain.
It’s nice to have 1.5-4 though honestly. But for a do it all the 420 will work and be badass. You’re splitting hairs among the tier 1’s. If you like the reticles, 420.
It’s nice to have 1.5-4 though honestly. But for a do it all the 420 will work and be badass. You’re splitting hairs among the tier 1’s. If you like the reticles, 420.
One of our great customers is loving the ZC420 for the demo NV setups
It’s solid, and I use one, but base mag is 5x and really you want to be closer to 3x.
The problem with 5-7x as your bottom end, you may not even see the menu. Or depending on the thermal, you’re already at its maximum usable power range.
There are only a few clipons that are commercially available which offer usable optical mag over 10x. Most of these units that will tolerate higher base mag by design.
I’m detailing tho. The OP is fine with either ZCO or SB being looked at for clipons.
I would not say the ATACR 7-35 doesn't do well with clip ons because of anything other than it's minimum magnification, I would highly recommend you talk more with @SkyScrapin - he knows his stuff and has had all the scopes, he also is a hide dealer for thermals so you get that benefit as well.
A lot of scopes can fill the role for all these cartridges; however, your desire for clip on use will be the biggest limitation I feel.
This alone helps us understand your mindset, though I would say don't discount some "lesser" scopes just because they aren't the best of the best, for your situation and clip on friendly the NX8 2.5-20x50 would be very hard to beat, is it as good as ZCO, no, but it is very good for what it does and as long as you can live with the limitations I'd think you'd be pretty happy.
Glass being subjective I would rank your thread title scopes in this order:
- ZCO 5-27
- ATACR 7-35
- SB 3-27
Yes there is - usability for a given purpose. With your given purpose I would toss the ATACR 7-35, not because it's not a great scope but as you mentioned it is not ideal for clip on. I would even say toss the ZCO 5-27 and give serious consideration to the ZCO 4-20, but even 4x is a bit high.
I was out shooting with @SkyScrapin and other Hider's last month and he brought a sweet Eotech Thermal and even with this top of the line thermal we were seeing quite a bit of pixilation above 3x.
Already mentioned above.
Not "that" Schmidt & Bender, keep in mind this is a 9x erector scope vs. a 5.4x erector and higher erector scopes do tend to struggle compared to lower - yes, there is the benefit of have 3x at the bottom and 27x at the top but at the sacrifice of some IQ. The Schmidt isn't horrible, but the ZCO is clearly better (I have a review coming soon with these scopes - ZCO, SB 3-27, TT and others)
Subjective, but that is my experience, though to be fair I have not been able to put the ATACR 7-35 through my testing gauntlet
Then go with that
I've had multiple ZCO's and multiple TT's and would not say this about ZCO vs TT, I would recommend you try to fine tune your TT's diopter and if it still doesn't match ZCO then send it back to TT
Agree with above sentiments regarding FOV.
Nate… are you WANTING to add another scope to your collection?
As mentioned above, the ZCO 420 you already have will work for everything.
It’s also short, which is REALLY helpful for clip-on use. Unless you have orangutan arms, it’s a hassle to work the focus, close cap for nuc, etc. while trying to keep your eye in the eyebox. (clip-on dependent)
The 7-35 is a no-go for both FOV and length.
S&B 3-27 has great FOV, but is long.
S&B 3-20 US is my personal choice for all my clip-on use. But I’ve had it for years, and new pricing is interesting (to put it nicely). And it’s also nearly the same optic (zoom range and length) you already have.
If you just want another scope, I’d recommend considering something for all your NON-clip-on usage. Something bold, with little overlap with your 4-20… like an 8-40!
Nate… are you WANTING to add another scope to your collection?
As mentioned above, the ZCO 420 you already have will work for everything.
It’s also short, which is REALLY helpful for clip-on use. Unless you have orangutan arms, it’s a hassle to work the focus, close cap for nuc, etc. while trying to keep your eye in the eyebox. (clip-on dependent)
The 7-35 is a no-go for both FOV and length.
S&B 3-27 has great FOV, but is long.
S&B 3-20 US is my personal choice for all my clip-on use. But I’ve had it for years, and new pricing is interesting (to put it nicely). And it’s also nearly the same optic (zoom range and length) you already have.
If you just want another scope, I’d recommend considering something for all your NON-clip-on usage. Something bold, with little overlap with your 4-20… like an 8-40!
Thanks guys for all your responses. These choices would be easier if there was a local retailer that had all the best in a line ready for my mk11 eyeball to take a gander at. So having you guys as a resource is priceless. Ive got a number of things cooking that have put me in a place where I need more optics. Im always in the pursuit of the best. and sometimes best is hard to define. and very subjective.
anyways thanks.
anyways thanks.
Depending on the color of your AXSR, a factory FDE ZC420 might go well on it
This is the first we have coming in next week.
likely keeping the tt525 on the ax. tho a 527 is likely landing on the csr. and a sb ultra short on the minifix.Depending on the color of your AXSR, a factory FDE ZC420 might go well on it
If you do get another ZCO (and obviously you should), Give CS a call/ They are hands down the best ZCO dealer out there and will sort you out.
I am trying to talk myself into buying a 3rd.
I am trying to talk myself into buying a 3rd.
All good. Richard and @CSTactical team are top notch. I know because I bought 5 ZCOs, 4 Tangents, and a Kahles from CST. Professional all around.
Just as a note, if you are wanting a S&B 3-27
www.snipershide.com
SOLD - Schmidt Bender S&B 3-27x56 GR2ID DT II+ Riflescope LNIB
Schmidt Bender PM II 3-27x56 High Power DT II+ MTC LT / ST II ZC LT GRID .1 mrad Riflescope 669-911-422-M2-I5 Bought this scope from EO back in February, has been mounted in ARC M-BRACE mount (not included) but never shot so in like new condition. This unit has the GR2ID (GRID) reticle and the...
www.snipershide.com
Oooh, I remember that scope too, matched beautifully with Jakes AI, CS Tactical does an outstanding job Cerkoting scopes, not just ZCO's, all their Cerakote work I've seen has been top notch!!!
Yep, the guy they use does top notch work. I've had a couple scopes done elsewhere with mixed results; then I tried to do it myself and regretted that effort. The one they sent out for coating came back impeccable.
You haven't seen a baller ZCO Cerakote until you have seen @b2lee
The power of the chicken cannot be denied.
The power of the chicken cannot be denied.
It is still a work in progress....something something broke....no monies....spending everything I make on powder, primers and Bergers....will finish the Chicken Project after the season ends.
I guess my scope doesn't belong in the discussion though...it is the 8-40 version of the ZCO
Edit to add..... Richard Cerakoted this one as well.
Edit to add..... Richard Cerakoted this one as well.
