The title says it all. I've read the Leupold vs Nightforce thread, now lets add $1500.00 of disposable income to the mix. I'd like to have you all weigh in on which of these two optics are better. I have never used either but they both come highly recommended. Which in your opinion/experience is better and why? Thank you.
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Rifle Scopes S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
- Thread starter Godbullet
- Start date
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
Even with an additional $1500 on top of the cost of a $1500 nightforce or leupy you'll be a few hundred bucks short for most of the PMII's or Hensoldts. Definitely beautiful scopes though, I used to have a small fleet of NXS's and a leupy and an IOR, sold them all and now only have 2 S&B's I have to swap around between 6 guns and an aimpoint T1, but I could not be more pleased and would do it again in a heartbeat.
Even with an additional $1500 on top of the cost of a $1500 nightforce or leupy you'll be a few hundred bucks short for most of the PMII's or Hensoldts. Definitely beautiful scopes though, I used to have a small fleet of NXS's and a leupy and an IOR, sold them all and now only have 2 S&B's I have to swap around between 6 guns and an aimpoint T1, but I could not be more pleased and would do it again in a heartbeat.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The henny has the superior glass, and size. Don't think anyone will dispute that. S&B wins basically every other category though. </div></div>
I have multiple S&B and Hensoldt scopes. IMO, S&B clearly has better reticles and more choices; Hensoldt has better resolution, color, FOV, eyebox, and scope size. S&B has a mechanical zero stop, but Hensoldts can have a zero stop with the right rail cant (but S&B wins here). I also prefer the Hensoldt turrets, the S&B turret clicks are just too stiff and it's easy to overshoot and harder to read the tic marks. If Hensoldt had a P4F or Gen 2XL type reticle, I wouldn't consider an S&B except when I needed high magnification (more than 16-20X). So far, S&B has been more responsive to shooters' needs and suggestions.
PS If you're on a budget and want a great scope, then buy a used one that's been well taken care of.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The henny has the superior glass, and size. Don't think anyone will dispute that. S&B wins basically every other category though. </div></div>
I have multiple S&B and Hensoldt scopes. IMO, S&B clearly has better reticles and more choices; Hensoldt has better resolution, color, FOV, eyebox, and scope size. S&B has a mechanical zero stop, but Hensoldts can have a zero stop with the right rail cant (but S&B wins here). I also prefer the Hensoldt turrets, the S&B turret clicks are just too stiff and it's easy to overshoot and harder to read the tic marks. If Hensoldt had a P4F or Gen 2XL type reticle, I wouldn't consider an S&B except when I needed high magnification (more than 16-20X). So far, S&B has been more responsive to shooters' needs and suggestions.
PS If you're on a budget and want a great scope, then buy a used one that's been well taken care of.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
I've had a S&B 5-25 and a Hensoldt 4-16. They are both great scopes. However, I do prefer a S&B over a Hensoldt. The glass is about the same on both, but the Schmidt has better turret clicks in my opinion, the reticle options are much etter, and it has a zero stop. It's small differences, but you can't go wrong with either.
I've had a S&B 5-25 and a Hensoldt 4-16. They are both great scopes. However, I do prefer a S&B over a Hensoldt. The glass is about the same on both, but the Schmidt has better turret clicks in my opinion, the reticle options are much etter, and it has a zero stop. It's small differences, but you can't go wrong with either.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
S&B without a doubt!!
I have used them all and without a doubt the S&B has been the most reliable, accurate, dependable, robust, scope I have ever owned.
I never have a doubt if the thing is going to work or did that bump just cost me to lose my zero.
They are tanks and well worth every penny for them.
S&B without a doubt!!
I have used them all and without a doubt the S&B has been the most reliable, accurate, dependable, robust, scope I have ever owned.
I never have a doubt if the thing is going to work or did that bump just cost me to lose my zero.
They are tanks and well worth every penny for them.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
Hi Guys,
I have a small problem with the PMII 5-25x56 duracoated with locking turrets.
In order to set the scope i need to unscrew 3 (not 2 like stated in the manual) screws. 2 of them are the same and with the 3rd i need to use different screwdriver. The problem is on the elevation knob i am not able to move it. On the windage knob everything goes well but on the top one if doesn't want to move a mm. Does anyone had the same problem?? How was it solved??
Regards
Bart
Hi Guys,
I have a small problem with the PMII 5-25x56 duracoated with locking turrets.
In order to set the scope i need to unscrew 3 (not 2 like stated in the manual) screws. 2 of them are the same and with the 3rd i need to use different screwdriver. The problem is on the elevation knob i am not able to move it. On the windage knob everything goes well but on the top one if doesn't want to move a mm. Does anyone had the same problem?? How was it solved??
Regards
Bart
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
As mentioned over and over both are excellent optics with great glass. My advice would be to pick the one with the features you want or need. I use the S&Bs because they give me the knobs I like with a zero stop and the reticle choices I like with good workable reticles with atleast .5 mil marks and a solid center crosshair aiming point with the H2CMR being the favorite of any reticle I have used.
As far as size, some like a smaller package but as long as the scope doesn't hang over my muzzle I see no problems with scope length.
I have never not been able to make a shot due to scope length. The S&B 5-25x56 I use is about the same length as other similar power ranged scopes.
In the end it's your money so choose what works for you. I choose S&B as I have been using them for over 6 years now and they never let me down. Still have my first 5-25x56 from back then that I bought used here on the Hide.
Bart, get ahold of Jerry R here on the Hide. He is a rep at the S&B Service Center here in the US and should be able to help you with any problem you have or direct you where you need to go. Here's a link to his profile where you can send him a PM through
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=9661
As mentioned over and over both are excellent optics with great glass. My advice would be to pick the one with the features you want or need. I use the S&Bs because they give me the knobs I like with a zero stop and the reticle choices I like with good workable reticles with atleast .5 mil marks and a solid center crosshair aiming point with the H2CMR being the favorite of any reticle I have used.
As far as size, some like a smaller package but as long as the scope doesn't hang over my muzzle I see no problems with scope length.
In the end it's your money so choose what works for you. I choose S&B as I have been using them for over 6 years now and they never let me down. Still have my first 5-25x56 from back then that I bought used here on the Hide.
Bart, get ahold of Jerry R here on the Hide. He is a rep at the S&B Service Center here in the US and should be able to help you with any problem you have or direct you where you need to go. Here's a link to his profile where you can send him a PM through
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=9661
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Idzior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Guys,
I have a small problem with the PMII 5-25x56 duracoated with locking turrets.
In order to set the scope i need to unscrew 3 (not 2 like stated in the manual) screws. 2 of them are the same and with the 3rd i need to use different screwdriver. The problem is on the elevation knob i am not able to move it. On the windage knob everything goes well but on the top one if doesn't want to move a mm. Does anyone had the same problem?? How was it solved??
Regards
Bart </div></div>
Both Lowlight and I have this problem.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Idzior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Guys,
I have a small problem with the PMII 5-25x56 duracoated with locking turrets.
In order to set the scope i need to unscrew 3 (not 2 like stated in the manual) screws. 2 of them are the same and with the 3rd i need to use different screwdriver. The problem is on the elevation knob i am not able to move it. On the windage knob everything goes well but on the top one if doesn't want to move a mm. Does anyone had the same problem?? How was it solved??
Regards
Bart </div></div>
Both Lowlight and I have this problem.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SCARbliss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even with an additional $1500 on top of the cost of a $1500 nightforce or leupy you'll be a few hundred bucks short for most of the PMII's or Hensoldts.</div></div>
No you won't.
Maybe if you go to a store and say 'bend me over for retail' but most optics places will deal with you if you've got the cash and you want one. At least for S&B.
I have seen a few Hensoldts go for 2500 or so that were demos too.
Those that diligently shop around are always rewarded.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SCARbliss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even with an additional $1500 on top of the cost of a $1500 nightforce or leupy you'll be a few hundred bucks short for most of the PMII's or Hensoldts.</div></div>
No you won't.
Maybe if you go to a store and say 'bend me over for retail' but most optics places will deal with you if you've got the cash and you want one. At least for S&B.
I have seen a few Hensoldts go for 2500 or so that were demos too.
Those that diligently shop around are always rewarded.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Godbullet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The title says it all. I've read the Leupold vs Nightforce thread, now lets add $1500.00 of disposable income to the mix. I'd like to have you all weigh in on which of these two optics are better. I have never used either but they both come highly recommended. Which in your opinion/experience is better and why? Thank you. </div></div>
I have Zeiss Diavari (can't imagine the Hensoldt has vastly different lens coatings) and have used plenty of S&B.
IMO S&B is the gold standard for scopes of that price range so that is what I'd probably get.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Godbullet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The title says it all. I've read the Leupold vs Nightforce thread, now lets add $1500.00 of disposable income to the mix. I'd like to have you all weigh in on which of these two optics are better. I have never used either but they both come highly recommended. Which in your opinion/experience is better and why? Thank you. </div></div>
I have Zeiss Diavari (can't imagine the Hensoldt has vastly different lens coatings) and have used plenty of S&B.
IMO S&B is the gold standard for scopes of that price range so that is what I'd probably get.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
Where in Texas are you located? It may be possible to arrange a meeting so you could look at the features of both scopes in person.
Where in Texas are you located? It may be possible to arrange a meeting so you could look at the features of both scopes in person.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
I couldn't tell if the is any difference at all, Between my 6-24x56 Victory Diavari and the Hensoldt 4-16x56 In the light gathering department.
I prefer the S&B PMII for the same reasons One-Eyed Jack mentioned.
I couldn't tell if the is any difference at all, Between my 6-24x56 Victory Diavari and the Hensoldt 4-16x56 In the light gathering department.
I prefer the S&B PMII for the same reasons One-Eyed Jack mentioned.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
I have a Hensoldt 3-12x56. I haven't used an S&B (yet), but have no complaints as to quality or functionality. I think you reach a certain point where "different" does not mean better/worse. But what do I know?
-polarcow
I have a Hensoldt 3-12x56. I haven't used an S&B (yet), but have no complaints as to quality or functionality. I think you reach a certain point where "different" does not mean better/worse. But what do I know?
-polarcow
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
The S&B has great reviews and the recticle options I prefer. All this talk about Zeiss having the clearest glass has made me wonder if I shouldn't go with it. I've only ever seen through a leupold VX3 x25 scope and I have absolutely no complaints on it. However, Nightforce (which I haven't seen) and above that, both Zeiss and S&B are reportedly superior.
The S&B has great reviews and the recticle options I prefer. All this talk about Zeiss having the clearest glass has made me wonder if I shouldn't go with it. I've only ever seen through a leupold VX3 x25 scope and I have absolutely no complaints on it. However, Nightforce (which I haven't seen) and above that, both Zeiss and S&B are reportedly superior.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SCARbliss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even with an additional $1500 on top of the cost of a $1500 nightforce or leupy you'll be a few hundred bucks short for most of the PMII's or Hensoldts.</div></div>
No you won't.
Maybe if you go to a store and say 'bend me over for retail' but most optics places will deal with you if you've got the cash and you want one. At least for S&B.
ETA: Not even used S&B's on for sale on the board here are that cheap LOL.
I have seen a few Hensoldts go for 2500 or so that were demos too.
Those that diligently shop around are always rewarded.
</div></div>
You want to show me where you can get a 5-25 MSR reticle for less than $3K? Last time I checked nobody in here mentioned used or demo scopes. Instead of making obnoxious statements why don't you demonstrate how diligent you are show me proof of getting an unused optic like that for $700+ off retail.
ETA: Not even the used scopes on for sale on the board are that cheap LOL
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SCARbliss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even with an additional $1500 on top of the cost of a $1500 nightforce or leupy you'll be a few hundred bucks short for most of the PMII's or Hensoldts.</div></div>
No you won't.
Maybe if you go to a store and say 'bend me over for retail' but most optics places will deal with you if you've got the cash and you want one. At least for S&B.
ETA: Not even used S&B's on for sale on the board here are that cheap LOL.
I have seen a few Hensoldts go for 2500 or so that were demos too.
Those that diligently shop around are always rewarded.
</div></div>
You want to show me where you can get a 5-25 MSR reticle for less than $3K? Last time I checked nobody in here mentioned used or demo scopes. Instead of making obnoxious statements why don't you demonstrate how diligent you are show me proof of getting an unused optic like that for $700+ off retail.
ETA: Not even the used scopes on for sale on the board are that cheap LOL
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Godbullet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The S&B has great reviews and the recticle options I prefer. All this talk about Zeiss having the clearest glass has made me wonder if I shouldn't go with it. I've only ever seen through a leupold VX3 x25 scope and I have absolutely no complaints on it. However, Nightforce (which I haven't seen) and above that, both Zeiss and S&B are reportedly superior. </div></div>
Henny offers 3 reticle options, mil-dot, NH1 or the H37.
The mildot....is a mildot.
The NH1 is a love or hate with its open center reticle.
The H37 is a horrible choice because it blocks out so much of your view point. If it had been the H58 or H59 it would have been a beast of a setup.
The S&B has a ton of choices for Reticles to the point where your going to find one your going to love. It also has much much much better turrets, and the ability to adjust down past 50m.
You need to look at the two and see which you like more.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Godbullet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The S&B has great reviews and the recticle options I prefer. All this talk about Zeiss having the clearest glass has made me wonder if I shouldn't go with it. I've only ever seen through a leupold VX3 x25 scope and I have absolutely no complaints on it. However, Nightforce (which I haven't seen) and above that, both Zeiss and S&B are reportedly superior. </div></div>
Henny offers 3 reticle options, mil-dot, NH1 or the H37.
The mildot....is a mildot.
The NH1 is a love or hate with its open center reticle.
The H37 is a horrible choice because it blocks out so much of your view point. If it had been the H58 or H59 it would have been a beast of a setup.
The S&B has a ton of choices for Reticles to the point where your going to find one your going to love. It also has much much much better turrets, and the ability to adjust down past 50m.
You need to look at the two and see which you like more.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had a S&B 5-25 and a Hensoldt 4-16. They are both great scopes. However, I do prefer a S&B over a Hensoldt. The glass is about the same on both, but the Schmidt has better turret clicks in my opinion, the reticle options are much etter, and it has a zero stop. It's small differences, but you can't go wrong with either. </div></div>
I was there with my S&B also and agree with remau308. S&B remains the top optics in my book. Trying to find differences in glass quality of these two is really a moot point.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had a S&B 5-25 and a Hensoldt 4-16. They are both great scopes. However, I do prefer a S&B over a Hensoldt. The glass is about the same on both, but the Schmidt has better turret clicks in my opinion, the reticle options are much etter, and it has a zero stop. It's small differences, but you can't go wrong with either. </div></div>
I was there with my S&B also and agree with remau308. S&B remains the top optics in my book. Trying to find differences in glass quality of these two is really a moot point.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Godbullet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The S&B has great reviews and the recticle options I prefer. All this talk about Zeiss having the clearest glass has made me wonder if I shouldn't go with it. I've only ever seen through a leupold VX3 x25 scope and I have absolutely no complaints on it. However, Nightforce (which I haven't seen) and above that, both Zeiss and S&B are reportedly superior. </div></div>
You'll not really notice the difference in glass. Glass quality is nice to have, but its the overall features that makes a scope the best tool for the job. The DT knobs of the S&B, the reticles, CS, etc are the reason to buy it, not the very marginal, if not indistinguishable, glass differences.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Godbullet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The S&B has great reviews and the recticle options I prefer. All this talk about Zeiss having the clearest glass has made me wonder if I shouldn't go with it. I've only ever seen through a leupold VX3 x25 scope and I have absolutely no complaints on it. However, Nightforce (which I haven't seen) and above that, both Zeiss and S&B are reportedly superior. </div></div>
You'll not really notice the difference in glass. Glass quality is nice to have, but its the overall features that makes a scope the best tool for the job. The DT knobs of the S&B, the reticles, CS, etc are the reason to buy it, not the very marginal, if not indistinguishable, glass differences.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
The eye box is bigger on Hensoldt's. Also less tunneling. That said both make excellent scopes. I like the size on the Hensoldt and shoot std mildot with no issue. I also set all my scopes up with 28 moa base which with a 4-16 ffp works as a zero stop.
The eye box is bigger on Hensoldt's. Also less tunneling. That said both make excellent scopes. I like the size on the Hensoldt and shoot std mildot with no issue. I also set all my scopes up with 28 moa base which with a 4-16 ffp works as a zero stop.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
Here is how I see it:
Henny:
Eye Box
S&B
Reticle Choices
Turret Choices
I like choices. I asked the Zeiss rep at SHOT show about if their scopes were coming with more options in the future. I got the typical German response. "We have all the options you need already" Decision made. S&B it is.
Here is how I see it:
Henny:
Eye Box
S&B
Reticle Choices
Turret Choices
I like choices. I asked the Zeiss rep at SHOT show about if their scopes were coming with more options in the future. I got the typical German response. "We have all the options you need already" Decision made. S&B it is.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Idzior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Guys,
I have a small problem with the PMII 5-25x56 duracoated with locking turrets.
In order to set the scope i need to unscrew 3 (not 2 like stated in the manual) screws. 2 of them are the same and with the 3rd i need to use different screwdriver. The problem is on the elevation knob i am not able to move it. On the windage knob everything goes well but on the top one if doesn't want to move a mm. Does anyone had the same problem?? How was it solved??
Regards
Bart</div></div>
Our S&B rep sent me directions for the knob if you need them. Drop me a PM with an email address I can send them to but there were some words of advice we were given:
Two major differences with these locking turrets:
1. Never remove the third slotted screw and remove the whole turret (you will never be able to get it back on)
2. When you loosen the two allen screws to adjust zero, you will still hear the MTC clicking.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Idzior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Guys,
I have a small problem with the PMII 5-25x56 duracoated with locking turrets.
In order to set the scope i need to unscrew 3 (not 2 like stated in the manual) screws. 2 of them are the same and with the 3rd i need to use different screwdriver. The problem is on the elevation knob i am not able to move it. On the windage knob everything goes well but on the top one if doesn't want to move a mm. Does anyone had the same problem?? How was it solved??
Regards
Bart</div></div>
Our S&B rep sent me directions for the knob if you need them. Drop me a PM with an email address I can send them to but there were some words of advice we were given:
Two major differences with these locking turrets:
1. Never remove the third slotted screw and remove the whole turret (you will never be able to get it back on)
2. When you loosen the two allen screws to adjust zero, you will still hear the MTC clicking.
Re: S&B PMII vs Zeiss Hensoldt
No experience with Hensoldt but I don't see what's so great about my S&B other than the MSR reticle. I just don't see the amazing glass I always read about. If it's better than my Nightforces I don't see it. I either got a bad one or they're way overrated in the "glass" dept. Just my opinion based on my limited experience.
No experience with Hensoldt but I don't see what's so great about my S&B other than the MSR reticle. I just don't see the amazing glass I always read about. If it's better than my Nightforces I don't see it. I either got a bad one or they're way overrated in the "glass" dept. Just my opinion based on my limited experience.
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