K I have a S&B PM II 4-16x50 MKII. Sighted it in, ran a weapon through some drop tests (Not my gun, doing an eval for a client prior to production), tried to re-confirm zero after drop test (nothing serious, knocked it over from the bipod, normal private type stuff). So when I try to re-confirm zero rights keep moving right regardless of windage movments. If I don't touch it, then they group, but regardless of adjustments rounds move right. Looking through the scope everything looks fine, look through it backwards and there looks like a "crack" from the 3 o'clock down to the 6 o'clock. Paralax adjustment? or did I really just destroy a demo by tiping over a rifle off its bipod?
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Rifle Scopes S&B PMII
- Thread starter Sealhunter
- Start date
Re: S&B PMII
It requires quite a bit of abuse to cause a S&B to fail, has it happened, of course but it took much more than pushing it over from bipod height. Chances are what you saw while through the objective towards the ocular was the inside of the erector tube and the scroll. The scroll acts as a guide for the erector lenses as they move forward and backwards, adjusting the magnification range.
In regards to the adjustments, are you sure you are rotating the knobs in the correct direction?
It requires quite a bit of abuse to cause a S&B to fail, has it happened, of course but it took much more than pushing it over from bipod height. Chances are what you saw while through the objective towards the ocular was the inside of the erector tube and the scroll. The scroll acts as a guide for the erector lenses as they move forward and backwards, adjusting the magnification range.
In regards to the adjustments, are you sure you are rotating the knobs in the correct direction?
Re: S&B PMII
Yes, I'm sure I adjusted the right directions, 10 clicks left or right and the rounds still move 5"-10" right. Now I know people pull rounds from time to time, etc, but a constant move in one direction EVERY time only tells me that the rifle I'm testing is FUBAR, or that the repedative testing has some how FUBARED the scope. I'm assuming that the PMII is some what on par with the SN3 I generally use so I never thought that repeatedly knocking it over would do this. Just as a "to cover my ass" I will be throwing the SN3 on it and rezeroing to insure that I really havn't screwed a scope I had high hopes for and that I have debunked a rifle that I didn't have too many hopes for.
Yes, I'm sure I adjusted the right directions, 10 clicks left or right and the rounds still move 5"-10" right. Now I know people pull rounds from time to time, etc, but a constant move in one direction EVERY time only tells me that the rifle I'm testing is FUBAR, or that the repedative testing has some how FUBARED the scope. I'm assuming that the PMII is some what on par with the SN3 I generally use so I never thought that repeatedly knocking it over would do this. Just as a "to cover my ass" I will be throwing the SN3 on it and rezeroing to insure that I really havn't screwed a scope I had high hopes for and that I have debunked a rifle that I didn't have too many hopes for.
Re: S&B PMII
Try this, before you go switching scopes out lock the rifle down with the S&B on it. Put a target out at 50 or 100 yards with a distinctive point of aim. Set the parallax and look through the scope at the target and do a little box test...5 mils right...5 mils left....a few mils down. With out touching anything you should be able to see the reticle tracking across the target in the correct increments and without firing a shot. It's difficult to diagnose issues over the internet so this will give you a starting point. If the scope appears to track fine then I'd begin to look at the components of the rifle, a rifle that you said you didn't have many hopes for.
Try this, before you go switching scopes out lock the rifle down with the S&B on it. Put a target out at 50 or 100 yards with a distinctive point of aim. Set the parallax and look through the scope at the target and do a little box test...5 mils right...5 mils left....a few mils down. With out touching anything you should be able to see the reticle tracking across the target in the correct increments and without firing a shot. It's difficult to diagnose issues over the internet so this will give you a starting point. If the scope appears to track fine then I'd begin to look at the components of the rifle, a rifle that you said you didn't have many hopes for.
Re: S&B PMII
Tried tracking with the gun in a vice. Didn't shoot it this way, but did track the scope and watch it move properly. Curious if it is somehow moving between shots or not. Guess I will shoot in the vice w/ both scopes. Kinda in a "SMF" with the rifle, just want to ensure when I got back to the client I can go "PMII & SN3 didn't work on it". I guess the final tell will be when we mount the ACOG on it.
Tried tracking with the gun in a vice. Didn't shoot it this way, but did track the scope and watch it move properly. Curious if it is somehow moving between shots or not. Guess I will shoot in the vice w/ both scopes. Kinda in a "SMF" with the rifle, just want to ensure when I got back to the client I can go "PMII & SN3 didn't work on it". I guess the final tell will be when we mount the ACOG on it.
Re: S&B PMII
I can't recall having handled a S&B that would pass a tracking test and then not once it was introduced to some recoil and light impacts. I would look at the rifle, mounts, ammunition and the other factors...BTW...what is it mounted in and to what?
I can't recall having handled a S&B that would pass a tracking test and then not once it was introduced to some recoil and light impacts. I would look at the rifle, mounts, ammunition and the other factors...BTW...what is it mounted in and to what?
Re: S&B PMII
I'll have to relook at the rings that S&B sent it with, and it is mounted on a "mock" M110. As for ammo, it has seen M80 ball, havn't even run 118 or 118LR through it with the issues I'm currently having.
I'll have to relook at the rings that S&B sent it with, and it is mounted on a "mock" M110. As for ammo, it has seen M80 ball, havn't even run 118 or 118LR through it with the issues I'm currently having.
Re: S&B PMII
Try some match ammo and see what happens...M80 ball could be the root of the problem. Double check the mounts, mainly the keepers on the rings to make sure they aren't "crushed" and have small cracks. I've seen that a couple of times with rings that were used on flat top AR platforms. If the problem persists use a known good scope. My gut is telling me that it's not the scope though. Good luck..gotta go upstairs and load me some boolits.
Try some match ammo and see what happens...M80 ball could be the root of the problem. Double check the mounts, mainly the keepers on the rings to make sure they aren't "crushed" and have small cracks. I've seen that a couple of times with rings that were used on flat top AR platforms. If the problem persists use a known good scope. My gut is telling me that it's not the scope though. Good luck..gotta go upstairs and load me some boolits.
Re: S&B PMII
You're asking these kind of questions, yet you have clients that trust you in some professional capacity related to M110's and S&B's and SN3's
You don't write for Sniper magazine do you?
You're asking these kind of questions, yet you have clients that trust you in some professional capacity related to M110's and S&B's and SN3's
You don't write for Sniper magazine do you?
Re: S&B PMII
sobrbiker883 said:You're asking these kind of questions, yet you have clients that trust you in some professional capacity related to M110's and S&B's and SN3's
You don't write for Sniper magazine do you? [/quote
Yet you are the kind of idiot that asks no questions and has touched EVERY piece of equipment? Yes, I have admitted that I do not play with S&B scopes....I was curious is S&B have a rep for being knocked off easily. If you have touched EVERY piece of gear known to man, I have a CAG job for you, if you havnt then shut the fuck up unless you have a worth while response.
Re: S&B PMII
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sealhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sealhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
sobrbiker883 said:You're asking these kind of questions, yet you have clients that trust you in some professional capacity related to M110's and S&B's and SN3's
You don't write for Sniper magazine do you? [/quote
Yet you are the kind of idiot that asks no questions and has touched EVERY piece of equipment? Yes, I have admitted that I do not play with S&B scopes....I was curious is S&B have a rep for being knocked off easily. If you have touched EVERY piece of gear known to man, I have a CAG job for you, if you havnt then shut the fuck up unless you have a worth while response. </div></div>
Whoa bro, you are harshing my buzz.
Not a good way to approach a new forum.
He could have posed his question better, but did you have to opt for the nuke response?
He is a respected member, and it is not as if he insulted your wife. Moderation.
Re: S&B PMII
Agreed that it might have been harsh...
I'm just seriously starting to get pissed at those that think they are god because they have 1Ks of posts on a forum and because I've been to busy running around the world with a sat phone and a gun I have minimal post means I must be the guy that markets "Counter Sniper Scopes".
I appolagize, I have never played with S&B scopes, period. I have not played with tactical rifles produced by the company that wants their product evaled. So instead of assuming that the company produced a product unable to meet the standards of the Army that they have submitied it to, I assumed that maybe in our beat up testing we knocked the scope in some way it could not handle.
Agreed that it might have been harsh...
I'm just seriously starting to get pissed at those that think they are god because they have 1Ks of posts on a forum and because I've been to busy running around the world with a sat phone and a gun I have minimal post means I must be the guy that markets "Counter Sniper Scopes".
I appolagize, I have never played with S&B scopes, period. I have not played with tactical rifles produced by the company that wants their product evaled. So instead of assuming that the company produced a product unable to meet the standards of the Army that they have submitied it to, I assumed that maybe in our beat up testing we knocked the scope in some way it could not handle.
Re: S&B PMII
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sealhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Agreed that it might have been harsh...
I'm just seriously starting to get pissed at those that think they are god because they have 1Ks of posts on a forum and because I've been to busy running around the world with a sat phone and a gun I have minimal post means I must be the guy that markets "Counter Sniper Scopes".
I appolagize, I have never played with S&B scopes, period. I have not played with tactical rifles produced by the company that wants their product evaled. So instead of assuming that the company produced a product unable to meet the standards of the Army that they have submitied it to, I assumed that maybe in our beat up testing we knocked the scope in some way it could not handle. </div></div>
Has nothing to do with posts. Most here are savvy enough to figure things out by content.
Sobr shoots a ton. That tends to bring respect from others here. That simple. Not that he, or others who shoot very often are any better than anyone else, they just have more experience and that lends credibility, usually.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sealhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Agreed that it might have been harsh...
I'm just seriously starting to get pissed at those that think they are god because they have 1Ks of posts on a forum and because I've been to busy running around the world with a sat phone and a gun I have minimal post means I must be the guy that markets "Counter Sniper Scopes".
I appolagize, I have never played with S&B scopes, period. I have not played with tactical rifles produced by the company that wants their product evaled. So instead of assuming that the company produced a product unable to meet the standards of the Army that they have submitied it to, I assumed that maybe in our beat up testing we knocked the scope in some way it could not handle. </div></div>
Has nothing to do with posts. Most here are savvy enough to figure things out by content.
Sobr shoots a ton. That tends to bring respect from others here. That simple. Not that he, or others who shoot very often are any better than anyone else, they just have more experience and that lends credibility, usually.
Re: S&B PMII
this is going to be epic. it's not even 4 hours old and we already have mention of satellite phones, CAG, M110's, and Counter Sniper.
but in all seriousness, please post a picture of one of your groups and mark your shots (1, 2, 3, etc.)
i think a visual of what you're talking about would be very helpful in trying to diagnose what's going on.
this is going to be epic. it's not even 4 hours old and we already have mention of satellite phones, CAG, M110's, and Counter Sniper.
but in all seriousness, please post a picture of one of your groups and mark your shots (1, 2, 3, etc.)
i think a visual of what you're talking about would be very helpful in trying to diagnose what's going on.
Re: S&B PMII
I got MY popcorn.
No really, I am sitting here eating popcorn waiting to see who throws out the biggest Mil spec phrase.
LOL.
SScott
I got MY popcorn.
No really, I am sitting here eating popcorn waiting to see who throws out the biggest Mil spec phrase.
LOL.
SScott
Re: S&B PMII
Before this train flies off the tracks remember when JJ McQuade showed up here? People jumped on him until they found out he was one of the winners of the International Sniper Competition...I'm just sayin'. Again, I doubt that you damaged the scope in some way through your testing. I don't know what your credentials are and frankly I don't really care but you have an issue so why not try to help. I've handled a few S&B's and they are hell for stout that can take a good bit of punishment before failure. Granted, I've seen some fail but then again I've seen a S&B with the ocular sheared off and duct taped back on that was still being used. I've submerged, thrown, dropped, hammered, and dragged my personal S&B and it held zero like a champ and still does to this day according the SH memeber I sold it to. They are not delicate.
I would look at some of the other factors such as the rifle, ammunition especially if you are just using M80 ball, and mounting system. Try the S&B on a different rifle of known accuracy and/or try the SN3 on the T&E rifle.
Before this train flies off the tracks remember when JJ McQuade showed up here? People jumped on him until they found out he was one of the winners of the International Sniper Competition...I'm just sayin'. Again, I doubt that you damaged the scope in some way through your testing. I don't know what your credentials are and frankly I don't really care but you have an issue so why not try to help. I've handled a few S&B's and they are hell for stout that can take a good bit of punishment before failure. Granted, I've seen some fail but then again I've seen a S&B with the ocular sheared off and duct taped back on that was still being used. I've submerged, thrown, dropped, hammered, and dragged my personal S&B and it held zero like a champ and still does to this day according the SH memeber I sold it to. They are not delicate.
I would look at some of the other factors such as the rifle, ammunition especially if you are just using M80 ball, and mounting system. Try the S&B on a different rifle of known accuracy and/or try the SN3 on the T&E rifle.
Re: S&B PMII
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've handled a few S&B's</div></div>
That's like saying Col Sanders has cooked a chicken or two!!
See you on the mountain!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've handled a few S&B's</div></div>
That's like saying Col Sanders has cooked a chicken or two!!
See you on the mountain!!
Re: S&B PMII
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sealhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I appolagize, I have never played with S&B scopes, period. I have not played with tactical rifles produced by the company that wants their product evaled.</div></div>I all seriousness, here is a question:
Are you sure you are turning the windage knob the correct way? Schmidt and Bender produce both CCW and CW knobs, and while most American scopes are CCW, the European standard is CCW.
Point being- if you need to move the impact left, and think you are turning it left, you may actually be moving it right.
Sounds simple enough, but if you have been on American scopes all your lift, it certainly is a possibility.
-Bob
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sealhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I appolagize, I have never played with S&B scopes, period. I have not played with tactical rifles produced by the company that wants their product evaled.</div></div>I all seriousness, here is a question:
Are you sure you are turning the windage knob the correct way? Schmidt and Bender produce both CCW and CW knobs, and while most American scopes are CCW, the European standard is CCW.
Point being- if you need to move the impact left, and think you are turning it left, you may actually be moving it right.
Sounds simple enough, but if you have been on American scopes all your lift, it certainly is a possibility.
-Bob
Re: S&B PMII
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sealhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I appolagize, I have never played with S&B scopes, period. I have not played with tactical rifles produced by the company that wants their product evaled.</div></div>I all seriousness, here is a question:
Are you sure you are turning the windage knob the correct way? Schmidt and Bender produce both CCW and CW knobs, and while most American scopes are CCW, the European standard is CCW.
Point being- if you need to move the impact left, and think you are turning it left, you may actually be moving it right.
Sounds simple enough, but if you have been on American scopes all your lift, it certainly is a possibility.
-Bob </div></div>
And so the plot thickens,... ^^^ that is kind of what I have been pondering, but who buys a $3000 scope and doesn't understand the turrets rotation before use though?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sealhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I appolagize, I have never played with S&B scopes, period. I have not played with tactical rifles produced by the company that wants their product evaled.</div></div>I all seriousness, here is a question:
Are you sure you are turning the windage knob the correct way? Schmidt and Bender produce both CCW and CW knobs, and while most American scopes are CCW, the European standard is CCW.
Point being- if you need to move the impact left, and think you are turning it left, you may actually be moving it right.
Sounds simple enough, but if you have been on American scopes all your lift, it certainly is a possibility.
-Bob </div></div>
And so the plot thickens,... ^^^ that is kind of what I have been pondering, but who buys a $3000 scope and doesn't understand the turrets rotation before use though?
Re: S&B PMII
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before this train flies off the tracks remember when JJ McQuade showed up here? People jumped on him until they found out he was one of the winners of the International Sniper Competition...I'm just sayin'. Again, I doubt that you damaged the scope in some way through your testing. I don't know what your credentials are and frankly I don't really care but you have an issue so why not try to help. I've handled a few S&B's and they are hell for stout that can take a good bit of punishment before failure. Granted, I've seen some fail but then again I've seen a S&B with the ocular sheared off and duct taped back on that was still being used. I've submerged, thrown, dropped, hammered, and dragged my personal S&B and it held zero like a champ and still does to this day according the SH memeber I sold it to. They are not delicate.
I would look at some of the other factors such as the rifle, ammunition especially if you are just using M80 ball, and mounting system. Try the S&B on a different rifle of known accuracy and/or try the SN3 on the T&E rifle. </div></div>
Appretiate it, covers everything I need to know. Never touching S&B I just wasn't sure if they were up for a beating and am having really hard time admitting that a company that is well known for precission hunting/benchrest rifles would make such a huge mistake in a tacticle rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before this train flies off the tracks remember when JJ McQuade showed up here? People jumped on him until they found out he was one of the winners of the International Sniper Competition...I'm just sayin'. Again, I doubt that you damaged the scope in some way through your testing. I don't know what your credentials are and frankly I don't really care but you have an issue so why not try to help. I've handled a few S&B's and they are hell for stout that can take a good bit of punishment before failure. Granted, I've seen some fail but then again I've seen a S&B with the ocular sheared off and duct taped back on that was still being used. I've submerged, thrown, dropped, hammered, and dragged my personal S&B and it held zero like a champ and still does to this day according the SH memeber I sold it to. They are not delicate.
I would look at some of the other factors such as the rifle, ammunition especially if you are just using M80 ball, and mounting system. Try the S&B on a different rifle of known accuracy and/or try the SN3 on the T&E rifle. </div></div>
Appretiate it, covers everything I need to know. Never touching S&B I just wasn't sure if they were up for a beating and am having really hard time admitting that a company that is well known for precission hunting/benchrest rifles would make such a huge mistake in a tacticle rifle.
Re: S&B PMII
[/quote]
And so the plot thickens,... ^^^ that is kind of what I have been pondering, but who buys a $3000 scope and doesn't understand the turrets rotation before use though? [/quote]
Thanks for covring the basics (seriously, not meant sarcasticly), but the problem is regardless of which direction the windage is moved, the rounds go right, the elevation is moved, and the rounds follow the elvation fine, but still go right.
[/quote]
And so the plot thickens,... ^^^ that is kind of what I have been pondering, but who buys a $3000 scope and doesn't understand the turrets rotation before use though? [/quote]
Thanks for covring the basics (seriously, not meant sarcasticly), but the problem is regardless of which direction the windage is moved, the rounds go right, the elevation is moved, and the rounds follow the elvation fine, but still go right.
Re: S&B PMII
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sealhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thanks for covring the basics (seriously, not meant sarcasticly), but the problem is regardless of which direction the windage is moved, the rounds go right, the elevation is moved, and the rounds follow the elvation fine, but still go right. </div></div>Gotcha. I wasn't trying to suggest that you didn't know what you were doing, only that most people are so tuned to CCW knobs that they might not even look at the knobs themselves.
That being said, anything that is mechanical can fail. It's too bad that your S&B did (it sounds like the case) as I had excellent results with the two I owned.
Have you tried winding the windage knob WAY left? To see if it is capable of moving left?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sealhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thanks for covring the basics (seriously, not meant sarcasticly), but the problem is regardless of which direction the windage is moved, the rounds go right, the elevation is moved, and the rounds follow the elvation fine, but still go right. </div></div>Gotcha. I wasn't trying to suggest that you didn't know what you were doing, only that most people are so tuned to CCW knobs that they might not even look at the knobs themselves.
That being said, anything that is mechanical can fail. It's too bad that your S&B did (it sounds like the case) as I had excellent results with the two I owned.
Have you tried winding the windage knob WAY left? To see if it is capable of moving left?
Re: S&B PMII
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sealhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was curious is S&B have a rep for being knocked off easily. </div></div>
They aren't. I have beat my S&Bs much harder than a simple bipod tip over, which I have done many times. They are also used by many militarys around the world including ours.
That said as mentioned everything can fail. If there is a problem get ahold of Mark at S&B in NH and he can help getting it fixed.
Schmidt & Bender, Inc.
741 Main Street
Claremont, NH 03743
U.S.A.
(800) 468-3450
(603) 287-4830
(603) 287-4832 fax
[email protected]
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sealhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was curious is S&B have a rep for being knocked off easily. </div></div>
They aren't. I have beat my S&Bs much harder than a simple bipod tip over, which I have done many times. They are also used by many militarys around the world including ours.
That said as mentioned everything can fail. If there is a problem get ahold of Mark at S&B in NH and he can help getting it fixed.
Schmidt & Bender, Inc.
741 Main Street
Claremont, NH 03743
U.S.A.
(800) 468-3450
(603) 287-4830
(603) 287-4832 fax
[email protected]
Re: S&B PMII
I agree call the s&b cs rep, on the bright side they are notorious for sending you a loaner while they fix/evaluate your optic.
I won't question your abilities not all of us have time/want to post all the damn time.
Good luck getting it worked out!!!
I agree call the s&b cs rep, on the bright side they are notorious for sending you a loaner while they fix/evaluate your optic.
I won't question your abilities not all of us have time/want to post all the damn time.
Good luck getting it worked out!!!
Re: S&B PMII
Not trying to bust your balls with my prior post or this one, your post just has some odd loose ends for someone doing optics evaluations for "clients". Plus anyone that abbreviates "okay" down to "k" to start a sentence will get me going every time....
Was it tracking properly prior to the "drop testing" or did you start knocking it over before you confirmed proper tracking?
A functioning PMII will take much more abuse than a little "rifle tipping". Anyone remember the eval a few years back with the PMII being towed behind a member's jeep?
Not trying to bust your balls with my prior post or this one, your post just has some odd loose ends for someone doing optics evaluations for "clients". Plus anyone that abbreviates "okay" down to "k" to start a sentence will get me going every time....
Was it tracking properly prior to the "drop testing" or did you start knocking it over before you confirmed proper tracking?
A functioning PMII will take much more abuse than a little "rifle tipping". Anyone remember the eval a few years back with the PMII being towed behind a member's jeep?
Re: S&B PMII
People need to drop the belief that the fact that a piece of equipment has withstood an unspecified but subjectively "totally amazing" amount of abuse during prior tests means that it couldn't fail because of abuse that <span style="font-style: italic">looks</span> far less spectacular in comparison. It's not the amazingness of the incident that is hard on a mechanical item, it is forces to specific parts, and often it is only a minor and not very obvious change in impact angle for example that makes the difference between "pass" and "fail". You can throw ten identical scopes out of the window into your back yard with the exact same amount of ellbow grease, seven may remain totally unscathed, two may get away with some cosmetic damage and one may be literally "dead on impact".
Anecdotal evidence is just not something you should draw a general conclusion from, and you cannot explain away the fact that one scope is broken with the fact that the other nine still work well.
People need to drop the belief that the fact that a piece of equipment has withstood an unspecified but subjectively "totally amazing" amount of abuse during prior tests means that it couldn't fail because of abuse that <span style="font-style: italic">looks</span> far less spectacular in comparison. It's not the amazingness of the incident that is hard on a mechanical item, it is forces to specific parts, and often it is only a minor and not very obvious change in impact angle for example that makes the difference between "pass" and "fail". You can throw ten identical scopes out of the window into your back yard with the exact same amount of ellbow grease, seven may remain totally unscathed, two may get away with some cosmetic damage and one may be literally "dead on impact".
Anecdotal evidence is just not something you should draw a general conclusion from, and you cannot explain away the fact that one scope is broken with the fact that the other nine still work well.
Re: S&B PMII
I've tipped my PMII over on concrete and it was bueno. Also banged it a few times at the last comp (AZ) and it took some paint off but didn't lose zero.
(Sobr you cracked me up. You only said what everyone was thinking.)
Seal- welcome to the hide.
I've tipped my PMII over on concrete and it was bueno. Also banged it a few times at the last comp (AZ) and it took some paint off but didn't lose zero.
(Sobr you cracked me up. You only said what everyone was thinking.)
Seal- welcome to the hide.
Re: S&B PMII
I'm not evaling the optic at all sobr, S&B sent us one to put on the rifle that we are evaling and the rifle manufact agreed with S&B that it would be better to use thier brand new scope than to throw a personal one on it.
We did ensure that the scope tracked properly prior to any testing, and I should clarify that it didn't just get knocked over once, we repeatedly (for like 8 hours) kept knocking it over, soaked the weapon in water, threw sand in it, dumped magazines through it (after break-in). Treating it like a private in the military would.
I wasn't impressed with the grouping of the rifle from the get go, so I'm trying to eleminate the scope as the issue. I won't have range time with the combo again until Sunday, so then I will have to snap some pictures on a personal camera to show how it is doing. That and throw the PMII on my personal rifle and test that out. I'll get some pics up Sunday evening.
I'm not evaling the optic at all sobr, S&B sent us one to put on the rifle that we are evaling and the rifle manufact agreed with S&B that it would be better to use thier brand new scope than to throw a personal one on it.
We did ensure that the scope tracked properly prior to any testing, and I should clarify that it didn't just get knocked over once, we repeatedly (for like 8 hours) kept knocking it over, soaked the weapon in water, threw sand in it, dumped magazines through it (after break-in). Treating it like a private in the military would.
I wasn't impressed with the grouping of the rifle from the get go, so I'm trying to eleminate the scope as the issue. I won't have range time with the combo again until Sunday, so then I will have to snap some pictures on a personal camera to show how it is doing. That and throw the PMII on my personal rifle and test that out. I'll get some pics up Sunday evening.
Re: S&B PMII
If it were me, I would pick a point on a target and while looking through the scope turn the windage knob to the right and then to the left. The point of aim should move to the right and to the left. If it does that, no problem with the scope.. Maybe the way it's mounted or the rifle, but not the scope. If it only moves right, send it to S&B, end of story they will fix it..
Just my opinion...
Merlinn
If it were me, I would pick a point on a target and while looking through the scope turn the windage knob to the right and then to the left. The point of aim should move to the right and to the left. If it does that, no problem with the scope.. Maybe the way it's mounted or the rifle, but not the scope. If it only moves right, send it to S&B, end of story they will fix it..
Just my opinion...
Merlinn
Re: S&B PMII
are you still running 147 gr M80 ball through the rifle?
that could be a big factor in how the weapon is grouping.
are you still running 147 gr M80 ball through the rifle?
that could be a big factor in how the weapon is grouping.
Re: S&B PMII
Sorry for the latency in response, been a busy busy time. As it turns out, we cracked a lense, and somehow the windage turret was turning one way, but would not turn back the other way. I guess thats what happens when you put it in an old 1950 case and toss it out of the truck a ton. The rep heard what we did, understood, and took complete care of us. Thank you guys for the insight in the mean-time.
Sorry for the latency in response, been a busy busy time. As it turns out, we cracked a lense, and somehow the windage turret was turning one way, but would not turn back the other way. I guess thats what happens when you put it in an old 1950 case and toss it out of the truck a ton. The rep heard what we did, understood, and took complete care of us. Thank you guys for the insight in the mean-time.
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