SA BDL Feeding Issues

[Dimefox]

Looking for some help to cure some feeding issues on a rifle I just put together:
Anti SA
AG Composite Alpine Hunter
Proof Med Sporter/Bugnut Prefit in 260 Rem
PTG BDL Bottom Metal
Hawkins Precision Rem 700 ADL/BDL Magazine Follower
Wyatts BDL Mag Spring
Wyatts Internal Mag Box 700 BDL SA Standard

Got it all put together and it won't reliably feed rounds. I made some dummy rounds that are plenty short to make sure it wasn't a COAL issue. On the leg of the mag spring that I installed into the floor plate, I had to trim a little off the end b/c it was too long and wouldn't sit flush into the recess.

A couple of other things I noticed:
- The follower looks like it gets hung up sometimes on the mag box when trying to feed. I took everything apart and can see where the follower is rubbing. It appears to mainly hang up such that the back of the cartridge can't engage with the bolt.
- The mag spring can move forward/backwards maybe 1/16" in the floor plate but probably 3/16" on the follower.

I watched the Fixing Feeding Issues on Wyatts website. It sounds like the spring moving around can be an issue and he said to stake it with a punch. I figured I better ask before I go hitting shit with a hammer and make sure I'm not overlooking something dumb. Could the lips on top of the mag box also require adjusting?

Attached a couple of pics. One of the follower, red circle where it makes contact with the mag box. One of inside the mag box looking at it from the bottom. I circled in dry erase marker where it rubs. And one from the top for good measure.

Any help is greatly appreciate. This is my first build so don't make fun of me too much.

 

[Baron23]

Looking for some help to cure some feeding issues on a rifle I just put together:
Anti SA
AG Composite Alpine Hunter
Proof Med Sporter/Bugnut Prefit in 260 Rem
PTG BDL Bottom Metal
Hawkins Precision Rem 700 ADL/BDL Magazine Follower
Wyatts BDL Mag Spring
Wyatts Internal Mag Box 700 BDL SA Standard

Got it all put together and it won't reliably feed rounds. I made some dummy rounds that are plenty short to make sure it wasn't a COAL issue. On the leg of the mag spring that I installed into the floor plate, I had to trim a little off the end b/c it was too long and wouldn't sit flush into the recess.

A couple of other things I noticed:
- The follower looks like it gets hung up sometimes on the mag box when trying to feed. I took everything apart and can see where the follower is rubbing. It appears to mainly hang up such that the back of the cartridge can't engage with the bolt.
- The mag spring can move forward/backwards maybe 1/16" in the floor plate but probably 3/16" on the follower.

I watched the Fixing Feeding Issues on Wyatts website. It sounds like the spring moving around can be an issue and he said to stake it with a punch. I figured I better ask before I go hitting shit with a hammer and make sure I'm not overlooking something dumb. Could the lips on top of the mag box also require adjusting?

Attached a couple of pics. One of the follower, red circle where it makes contact with the mag box. One of inside the mag box looking at it from the bottom. I circled in dry erase marker where it rubs. And one from the top for good measure.

Any help is greatly appreciate. This is my first build so don't make fun of me too much.

Going to be kind of hard to tell if you need to adjust the lips on the mag without a pic of it installed with a cartridge queued up and the head of the bolt showing where its coming into engage....no?

 

[Dimefox]

Going to be kind of hard to tell if you need to adjust the lips on the mag without a pic of it installed with a cartridge queued up and the head of the bolt showing where its coming into engage....no?

Yes my apologies. Attached.

It seems like the main issue is feeding on the second round. Typically the first round and third rounds are good. The second round is staggered from the left. Would logic dictate to bend the left lip in? All the pics here are of the second round, just different angles to try and show what's going on. It seems like the second round is normally a little too tip high so the bolt misses the base.

 

[Dimefox]

Kick to the top for fresh eyes.

 

[Elite_KG]

Ass look low to me. I’ve fought these before and set a few newly assembled rifles. I don’t see enough bolt to case overlap at the cartridge base.

The tolerances in the mag boxes are generally bad. You may need to bow the sides out some of its rubbing on the follower.

Springs sometimes need tweaking for more or less front or back pressure.

Looks like for sure you should open the mag box lips near the rear a tad. Bow the sides or sand the follower wear rubbing.

 

[Elite_KG]

PS - do you get bolt glide-overs, nose dives or bolt wedging the cartridge?

 

[Haney]

When you cycle the bolt after first round does it drag on next round and raise the bullet up ? If so sou may need to bend feed lips in . I would start with a Wyatt follower , or grind yours to make sure it is not binding anywhere .

 

[Aftermath]

This appears to be 1 of 2 things, maybe a little of both.

1)The feed lips are not wide enough to allow more of the cartridge above and into the path of the bolt. Try bending them apart, very little at a time and cycling the bolt. Use dummy rounds with no powder/primer for this. You really only need 2 but I prefer a mag full. Measure everything before you start so you can try to get it back to "zero" if this doesn't work.

2)The body of the magazine is too wide, allowing the second cartridge to inhibit upward movement of the first, like 2 fat girls trying to go through a 3-0 door at the same time. This is not a real easy fix but diagnosing is fairly simple using clear packing tape layers on the inside of the magazine.

Try #1 first.

 

[Dimefox]

After the first round feeds/ejects, the second round is nose up w/ no bolt contact. After more fiddling the 3rd round is hit or miss...typically feeds but sometime hangs up, ass low.

I'll try bending the feed lips out and also relieve the follower a bit. I'll report back. TY

 

[Haney]

Simple way to see if it's the bolt dragging . Load some rounds, close bolt on empty chamber , work the bolt like you normally do ejecting a fired round and stop . Take a look at the round in the mag and see what it looks like . Good luck , this can be frustrating .

 

[HogsLife]

@Dimefox Bump to the top. Did you I ever get this issue fixed? I’m having the same issues. Back end of the bullet drops to low so the bolt won’t catch the next round. Anything more than 1 in the mag and it won’t feed. I’ve messed with feed lips, spring, follower etc with zero luck.

Bighorn Origin SA
Hawkins BDL BM. Spring and follower

 

[Dimefox]

@Dimefox Bump to the top. Did you I ever get this issue fixed? I’m having the same issues. Back end of the bullet drops to low so the bolt won’t catch the next round. Anything more than 1 in the mag and it won’t feed. I’ve messed with feed lips, spring, follower etc with zero luck.

Bighorn Origin SA
Hawkins BDL BM. Spring and follower

My father in law passed recently and haven't had hardly any time to play with it. I fiddled with it quick one morning before work last week and it looks like if pull the follower spring back towards the butt of the stock on the floor plate and and seat the spring as deep as it will go into the follower and stake it, it should resolve the issue. The spring on both the floor plate and follower can move around so if I force them into the positions above it'll feed 3 rounds most of the time. But then it moves and any subsequent tries result in the same low heel condition. I still might have to fiddle with the feed lips...TBD.

I'll post up what I find out. I was hoping to have time tomorrow to work on it, but my wife might have other ideas for me lol.

 

[HogsLife]

My father in law passed recently and haven't had hardly any time to play with it. I fiddled with it quick one morning before work last week and it looks like if pull the follower spring back towards the butt of the stock on the floor plate and and seat the spring as deep as it will go into the follower and stake it, it should resolve the issue. The spring on both the floor plate and follower can move around so if I force them into the positions above it'll feed 3 rounds most of the time. But then it moves and any subsequent tries result in the same low heel condition. I still might have to fiddle with the feed lips...TBD.

I'll post up what I find out. I was hoping to have time tomorrow to work on it, but my wife might have other ideas for me lol.

Sorry for your loss man.

Appreciate the info. I may give that a shot. Let me know how it turns out when you get around to it.

 

[HogsLife]

I shot an email over to Hawkins about the issue and Nick got back to me pretty quick. Sounds like he’s pretty convinced it’s all in the spring tuning but he did drop a spring from their hunter DBM’s on the mail for me and says they seem to work pretty well in the BDL’s.

Pretty awesome of them. We’ll see how it turns out.

 

[Dimefox]

I shot an email over to Hawkins about the issue and Nick got back to me pretty quick. Sounds like he’s pretty convinced it’s all in the spring tuning but he did drop a spring from their hunter DBM’s on the mail for me and says they seem to work pretty well in the BDL’s.

Pretty awesome of them. We’ll see how it turns out.

Keep me posted how it works out.

I fiddled with mine yesterday. The internal mag box that I got had the the feed lips already bent, tried bending them back out. My current working theory is that the bend on the feed lips is too low, the follower hangs up on the lip and can't push the round high enough. Doesn't need to be much higher..maybe an eighth of an inch. Might have to order a new box..not sure if I can the crease out without mangling the thing.

 

[Dimefox]

Solved the problem:

Remington 700 Detachable Magazine Assembly/Conversion Kits - H-S Precision

It's now easier than ever to convert your Remington 700 BDL hinged floor plate over to a detachable magazine box feeding system. Our stainless steel black Cerakoted™ conversion kits include a new Pro Series Floor metal and magazine box. Additional magazine boxes are available in various...

hsprecision.com

Wasn't cheap, but cheaper than whipping the entire gun across the basement. Couldn't figure out the BDL..fuck that thing. Hunting season is basically here and am hellbent on using this with all the load development I did. No time to take it to a smith.

Only had to sand a very small amout on the stock to make it fit.

 

[Easy_E]

Yes my apologies. Attached.

It seems like the main issue is feeding on the second round. Typically the first round and third rounds are good. The second round is staggered from the left. Would logic dictate to bend the left lip in? All the pics here are of the second round, just different angles to try and show what's going on. It seems like the second round is normally a little too tip high so the bolt misses the base.

I see you already bought another magazine setup but here's what I learned from LRI in the old gunsmith forum . Pull your bolt and put a round in the magazine . looking in the bolt hole in the rear of the action you should see one third of the round sticking up in the action . If there's too little the case will jump over or tip the nose down . If you have more than the one third the loaded round will pop out too soon or possibly nose up .

 

[PCR]

I usually find this problem to be the spring. If it moves forward and backwards on the floor plate, you need to tape it where it seems to work best ( you can stake it after you solve the whole issue) then it’s a matter of bending the spring to put more upward pressure on the rear of the follower. Also compressing the spring so it doesn’t have as much upward pressure can help. It’s a frustrating problem to solve. a combination of the above will probably get you there. It can be a small adjustment or a lot. To compress the spring for less upward pressure, use pliers near the bends to compress. Do all of this before you alter the magazine. Good luck. This issue usually happens with new springs. I find that old springs have less upward pressure from age and work the best

 

[Dimefox]

I did stake the spring into the follower and floor plate where it seemed to behave best. I jacked with the spring quite a bit, compressed it, extended it, bent it so it more heel up, etc. Ground the inside of the mag box where the follower was rubbing, bent the feed lips in, out and all around. Still no bueno.

Lesson learned, have a smith figure out feeding on a BDL.

 

[PCR]

1) Only tape the spring on the plate until you figure it all out. When the bolt glides over the first round it’s because the rear of the case has fallen below the bolt You’ll also notice the round rocks back and forth.

2) bend the spring to cause more pressure on the rear of the follower

3) with a full magazine, open the floor plate, and cradle it in your hand to hold it up. Then lower it in your hand to take away some of the upward pressure.

You’ll figure it and you’ll be an expert until you get to the next one that does this then it’s back to cursing

 

[HogsLife]

@Dimefox

So Hawkins sent me a mag spring from one of their Hunter DBM setups and that fixed the issue. Can now load the IBM up and it cycles all but the very last round in the magazine without any tweaking of the spring or box.

Need to get that last round dialed in though. Bolt catches them all now but glides over that last round.