Sidearms & Scatterguns SA XDM or M&P 2.0 owner advice. Add the VP9

[Flyingbullseye]

I'm in the market to pick up another pistol and this time around in 9mm. I already have a .45 with my 1911 so I'm just going to something to go along with it. I am only looking specifically at the SA XDM full 4.5in model and the SW M&P 2.0 full 4.25in model with the apex trigger. I kind of want to keep as much similar as I can and the apex design does just that if I go that route.

Both are similar enough in price and size, weight that I feel its a good comparison as a next purchase. Both have similar mag loads with the SA having 19rds and the SW 17rds.

I have yet to fire either but was able to make a quick stop at a local shot and handle the M&P 2.0. I didn't have the time to check out the XDM. From what I handled I liked the MP but as stated I have yet to use either.

I'd like to get owners of each and if you have used or own both your take on them. All the good and bad you've experienced and things to keep in mind when checking both out at the local shop.

Either a pain to clean? How are they when they get dirt in them and or other reliability issues?

One more thing is that either one I purchase I also want to eventually make it a suppressor host much like the 1911. I have a octane 45HD.
How does either like or not like running a can? Any issues?

Look forward to hearing owners thoughts.

 

[NewsShooter]

I have the XDm in the 5.25 competition model, I haven't had any issues, seems to run anything I put in it and I shoot it better than anything else I've shot. C

 

[corey4]

I own both, and my pick goes to the m&p. I'm a Glock shooter because they just fit my hand better. The xdm, to me, is more "flippy" during recoil. I have not shot either suppressed so no opinion on that for ya.

I would say try and shoot a bunch of rounds thru them both. I hated Glock for the longest time until I shot one. They just work for me and no, I'm not trying to sell Glock to you. The xdm I found myself gripping it different each time I unholstered. The m&p I have to adjust my grip every 5-6 rounds.

A buddy of mine wanted to get into guns. I took the xdm, m&p, Glock 17 and 19, sig 226, and the Ruger American. He actually chose the Ruger over everything else. My wife shoots the sig.

Pistols are like boots. Gotta find what fits you.

 

[LawnMM]

Had an original M&P, sold it, constantly readjusting my grip. The backstraps are weird and swell sideways as well as forward and back. Bought a 4.5" XDM and loved it from the word go. Been my duty weapon for about 5 years now, few thousand rounds through it...not a single issue.

I recommend upgrading the striker retaining pin and trigger with Powder River Precision parts. Makes for a great pistol.

 

[Primus]

Both are lower tier pistols. From handling both, the 2.0 is much improved from the legacy M&P's. XD's are guns for non gun people, if they knew better, they would buy a glock/hk/cz/fn/beretta.

The trigger on the 2.0 is much better than the earlier model.

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Thanks for the feedback guys. A friend also recommended the vp9. For you guys that have any time with a VP9 what would your advice or preference compared to the M&P 2.0 w/ apex trigger?

 

[Primus]

Blows it out of the water as far as the trigger is concerned. Its a fighting pistol not a comp gun you have to keep in mind. I have a M&P will apex trigger/sear at a comp weight and its very nice, but I would never carry it for defense.

Presentability, recoil management, reliability, and proven pedigree make the VP9 hard to beat. Its top dog right now as far as fighting pistols go (PPQ is a close second but can't compete with availability, accessories, Walther CS sucks to deal with ,ect)

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Thanks Primus.
I took some time this afternoon to stop off at a local shop and check out the pistols. The VP9 I just didn't like how it handled and even orientated in my hands. There was just a unnatural feel to it and lining the sights up just felt off compared to the MP 2.0 and even the PPQ. I haven't up to today even given the ppq any thought nor did it ever cross my mind. The sales person there showed me the ppq when he took the other two out just as a comparison and mentioned the $100 rebate until September. I really liked it, I felt it's trigger was the best, the other two were tied. Feel in my hands was a toss up between the PPQ and the MP with a maybe slight edge to the MP. The MP I could line up the sights much faster and easier than either of the other two but the ppq was a close second. At this point its a toss up between the walther and the SW. The Walther I can get the navy version for $600 which would make it cheaper once I throw in the after market barrel for the MP but with the exception of the trigger the MP has a slight edge in feel, handling, aftermarket parts and CS.

 

[corey4]

As far as how they feel while just holding them, remember what I said in my earlier post about how I hated Glocks? They just felt weird and unnatural. Again, not trying to sell Glocks nor am I saying to try on or they are the best, just trying to help a bother out and give my experience. I could care less if you shoot a Glock or an XD, even though they aren't for "gun people". What works for is what works for you. Again, pistols are like boots, they all fit different.
Glocks feel funny and the triggers can suck. I own and have tried all the guns mentioned here and refused to try Glock. It literally took me 3 rounds and I knew Glocks were for me. You really should try shooting the guns, you might be surprised that the ones that feel funny and don't like (Glock in my case) actually work for you.

Case in point, I carry the s&w shield over my Glock 43 cuz the shield works better for me, but my match guns, full size carry guns, dicking around guns and truck guns are all Glock.

 

[Alphatreedog]

If you can rent the guns you're lookin at . Run some drills don't just shoot it . If you can't rent bug your buddies to go to the range n let you try their's . If all else fails strike up a conversation with someone at the range and I can almost garuntee that they will invite you to shoot what they have . I got the XDM competition in 9mm almost two months ago . It is very accurate. Improved my times at Steel Challenge but the trigger sucks squared . The demo had a trigger to die for and the price could not be beat . $579 plus Springfiels is running a gear up deal . Once I get a Powder River trigger in it it'll be tits . I carry the XD .45 and have run it in competition . Awesome gun . Buddies with 1911 varients love it and get a kick out of how accurate it is hosin a silhouette paper target at ten yards . I have shot the VP 9 and it is incredible . Unfortunately I have a high support hand grip and it prevents the slide from locking open on last round . It is one of the best out of the box triggers I've shot . As for XD owners not being gun people. Glocks don't point well for me , 1911s are to thin in the grip and I have shot and owned alot of pistol over the past 30 years . Spent alot of money to get here and wi) probably spend a shit ton more . A 2011 is on the horizon . Shoot what feels right and shoots well for you .

 

[steve123]

It's funny to me reading the constant wondernine this vs that threads. Because for half my adult life I played around with nearly every pistol made. I was the first guy in northern AZ to own a G22 when they came out. Promptly won the next IPSC match with it - high cap major power factor, lol. I collected pistols for a while and decided that wasn't for me so I sold most of them. Eventually I had a custom 2011 built by a top name GS for the American Handgunner World Shootoff. WOW is the best way to describe that awesome pistol! In the end I sold all but one 9mm Steyr, and the G42 but kept the last custom 2011 in 40. Winning a bullseye match among friends the last two weeks, the joke was, "let's all just shoot Steve's 2011".

Alpha, don't delay.

 

[lash]

I spent some time at the STI booth at the NRA show with my brother. I'm pretty sure that he's getting one this year. They were awesome with no doubt. Nothing compares that I've seen or handled. However, my budget is much more meager than his, so it will be some time before I scratch that particular itch.

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Thank you guys for some more advice.

Little update. This is why you try before you buy.

Going into today I had 3 pistols I was looking at. The MP9 2.0, VP9 and the PPQ 9. I will be honest before I went to the range I really wanted the MP to come out the winner but was still at least open to the other 2.

Now having had a chance to shoot 100rds all 3 side by side I have to say the MP is dead last. What I thought I'd like left me not wanting to even give it a second chance. The mags suck compared to the other 2, the slide release is nearly worthless its so tight and though there isn't much recoil in a 9mm it felt like it jumped the most and scored the least in accuracy. The VP9 and the PPQ are a tough choice. The PPQs trigger is flat out awesome but I shot the VP9 just a hair better. Both felt natural in my hands and I could line up the sights quicker (liked the VP9 the best) than I could with the MP. Both are a blast to shoot and honestly I don't know which one I like better. All I know what was a 3 pistol race is now a 2 pistol race.

 

[corey4]

Glad your on the right path

 

[TheOE800]

As far as how they feel while just holding them, remember what I said in my earlier post about how I hated Glocks? They just felt weird and unnatural. Again, not trying to sell Glocks nor am I saying to try on or they are the best, just trying to help a bother out and give my experience. I could care less if you shoot a Glock or an XD, even though they aren't for "gun people". What works for is what works for you. Again, pistols are like boots, they all fit different.
Glocks feel funny and the triggers can suck. I own and have tried all the guns mentioned here and refused to try Glock. It literally took me 3 rounds and I knew Glocks were for me. You really should try shooting the guns, you might be surprised that the ones that feel funny and don't like (Glock in my case) actually work for you.

Case in point, I carry the s&w shield over my Glock 43 cuz the shield works better for me, but my match guns, full size carry guns, dicking around guns and truck guns are all Glock.

^Yup; how a gun feels in your hand versus how it feels in your hand while shooting are totally different. First handgun for me was the M&P, picked over the Glock cuz it felt right. Never did shoot it well and shot the Austrian plastic fantastic much better - just wasn't ever comfortable while doing so. I don't own the M&P anymore, nor do I own any Glocks (finger grooves, man) though I found HK pistols tend to shoot well for me.

As far as VP9 vs. PPQ; I found the PPQ to be flippy and the grip shape annoying. It's got a hump that hits my palm weird, whereas the VP9 hump is located differently and doesn't bother me.

 

[Primus]

VP9 is hard to beat. PPQ does have a slightly better trigger however the vp9 with the smallest grips is like an extension of your arm. Hard to explain but it shoots like a laser and has very little recoil. There is not a pistol on the planet i would rather trust my life to.

 

[Flyingbullseye]

I couldn't really tell much if any difference between the two as far as recoil was concerned. Both felt nice, and had a smooth impulse. I'm not sure what grip was in each as I don't know what each company specifies what is what but if I had to wager I'd guess the VP9 had a medium and the PPQ was maybe large. Both seemed to be an extension of my arm similar to Primus description of the VP. The PPQ felt to me more stout, and is a more robuts durable pistol and sexy in its own way, while the VP kind of reminds me of a elegant European sports car.

I'm finding out Walthers CS is very much improving over the years but is still considered to be a little bit behind HK. But I can get the PPQ navy version since it has the threaded barrel for $600 and has a $100 rebate until September, the VP would be a bit more expensive if I bought the Tac version or bought the regular and purchased a aftermarket barrel. Both basically suck for aftermarket anything beyond mags.

I really need to get some winning lotto numbers and this problem would solve itself.

 

[Primus]

They need zero aftermarket other than better sites then the meprolight trash...i replaced my rears with wilson combat vickers battlesights. Lots of holster options as well. I made some leather pancake ones a few weeks ago and they are tits.

 

[Delicatessen]

If you are looking striker, ppq and p320 are my current favorites. Never shot the vp9, had 3 of their da/sa over the years...overall ok but no more reliable than other competitors and cs always required me to pay shipping when I had two complete failures that were their issue. Shot the xdm to me just ok and not a fan of the issues they got involved in recently backing bs legislation in Illinois. If you are open to da/sa then sigs classic p229/226 or cz would be a good option as the single action will be closer to 1911 then most strikers.

 

[black5.3]

Im an xdm-xds guy myself but according to some that means im not a gun guy..... lol

I shoot them because they feel the best in my hands and i ahoot them well. I have never had a problem with either of my pistols and i carry the xds iwb and dont clean it as i should. It always go bang when i want it to. The xdm is a 4.5" 40 and its a good shooter as well. I like the signts they come with.

 

[Primus]

You mean the 200$ hs2000 from croatia springfield buys and marks up 150% that has never won a military/le contract and is only carried by fuds who have to buy their own weapons ( suprise they buy the cheapest). Or the one that routinely cannot survive,an actual combat pistol course.

Im sure dicks feel great in a gay dudes ass, doesnt mean anyone else should try it.

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Really not the best/helpful post Primus.

Back on topic. I went back today to the local range/shop and rented the PPQ and VP9 again. Bought 2 boxes and shot both at multiple distances taking my time to get the feel for the grip, trigger, sights and so forth and see how I shot both. Where the VP9 started out last in my heart of all the pistols I tried it now has come out a clear winner. While the PPQ is excellent in its own right for me I just was able to get a shot quicker and more accurately on target than with the PPQ. By the time I was done today the VP9 was just much more comfortable and I had more confidence in it that with its rival.

SInce the VP9 tactical is not in stock atm I'm going to have to order it but look forward to finally picking it up. Should be a blast with my can too.

 

[lash]

There's a thread a couple spots down that talks about places where you can get the VP9s for less. Maybe one of them has it in stock:

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...r-s-hide-side-arms-k-bars/6470388-vp9-on-sale

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Thanks for the thread lash but I'm specifically looking for the tac version. For about $700 I can pick up a tac version and save myself money rather than purchasing a regular one and rebarreling it.

 

[lash]

Yeah. I seem to recall that you said something like that earlier. Let us know when you get it.

 

[LawnMM]

You mean the 200$ hs2000 from croatia springfield buys and marks up 150% that has never won a military/le contract and is only carried by fuds who have to buy their own weapons ( suprise they buy the cheapest). Or the one that routinely cannot survive,an actual combat pistol course.

Im sure dicks feel great in a gay dudes ass, doesnt mean anyone else should try it.

You're quite the idiot. They're more expensive, not less. GLOCK is easily the cheapest if you're LE and buying your own. As if that's some mark of dishonor... buying your own weapon. I've put thousands of rounds through my XDM, easily 500 at a time during fast paced training days. Never an issue.

Save your bullshit for the Cabela's gun counter. Nobody's buying what you're selling here. You're real proficient at knocking products and coming off like you know it all, maybe you can dazzle us with the practical experience you have?

I'm guessing zero outside of the gunfighting interweb.

 

[Primus]

You're quite the idiot. They're more expensive, not less. GLOCK is easily the cheapest if you're LE and buying your own. As if that's some mark of dishonor... buying your own weapon. I've put thousands of rounds through my XDM, easily 500 at a time during fast paced training days. Never an issue.

Save your bullshit for the Cabela's gun counter. Nobody's buying what you're selling here. You're real proficient at knocking products and coming off like you know it all, maybe you can dazzle us with the practical experience you have?

I'm guessing zero outside of the gunfighting interweb.

I'm the Idiot? You are the one who fails history class child.

The XD is a piece of shit. Always has been always will be. It has ZERO notable contracts with any LE or military. Every single actual trial/competition I have ever seen it as a participant, it has flat out failed the requirements or been so inferior it never made it to downselection. Even Wather and HK are getting a piece of the LE/Mil pie, yet ZERO XD's. For a gun that has been out longer than the smith M&P, this is telling.

Speak with any reputable trainer or folks who shot alot of heavy fire courses each year. Ask them how many XD's they see. For the ones that have been around a while, ask them how they handled a real course.

The fact is, the ONLY LE you see with an XD are cops who A. Have to buy their own weapon. B. Know jack shit about firearms. C. Never run them hard enough in quantity to see their shortcomings and D. Because they have historically been the cheapest service type pistol other than P series rugers and shitty smiths.

Any LE with 2 brain cells to rub together would see that 99% of all LE in the US are running Glock/Sig/HK, especially Federal agencies where money means nothing in the scheme of an operating budget. They will pick whatever gun performs the best and meets all requirements. This is why lots of federal cops carry HK/SIG, price is irrelevant. Even the FBI who has one of the most well known pistol selection criteria, and is used as a benchmark for smaller agencies who can't afford to spend hundreds of thousands and months to do a real trial, just selected a new glock. Fud LE who work for shitty/poor agencies and make $12/hr (less than my janitor) go out and buy a XD for $50 less because it comes with a shitty plastic holster and some extra mags. Every major manufacture has a blue label program and you can get shit cheaper than glocks.

Funny thing is, I guarantee I have owned MORE XD's and put more rounds down the tube than you have or ever will. I ignored sound advice in my younger days and had to see for myself. They are hunks of shit and the quickest tell that someone is a gun tard, is someone shooting a XD/Taurus/Hipoint. No shooter with a ounce of self respect or rvalue for their lives would every carry one for duty/ccw.

Everyone has "500 rounds down the pipe and no problems, or thousands of rounds and zero issues", yet when they are put to the test in actual, verifiable settings, they fail. Take 100 Glocks, 100 HK's, 100 Sigs and 100 XD's and then put 10K rounds through each gun with nothing but lube and changing out springs at recommended intervals. Who is going to come out on top? How many of each will be deadlined before it gets to 10K? Whats the MRBF? Whats the average round count before deadline? What type of malfunctions? Is the malfunction something that can be handled with immediate action? This is the only test that matters, not some faggot youtube video.

XD's may be more expensive now, since they give you 4 mags and Springfield has to find a way to pay for all those shitty full page color adds, and their anti-gun lobby trying to screw over gun owners in their own state. It costs glock less than $100 to make a new gun, no shit they are cheap....they have made millions over the years and all plant, propperty, and equipment is paid for. Springfield can sit on a dick and spin. You can as well as far as I'm concerned.

 

[LawnMM]

So that's a negative on telling us about some of the experience you're basing all your bullshit on, then?

​​​​​​You guarantee you've put more rounds down range than me, huh? ROFL. Whatever troll. Welcome to the ignore list.

*Edited to add... that's the largest rant I've seen in a while, so you have that going for you.*

 

[Alphatreedog]

I never got the justification that if you insult someone and talk crap it some how strengthens your position . Two months on a new XDM 9MM. , ran steel challenge on a dirty gun and knocked. .7 seconds off my best time . Two months and about 2100 rounds . Trigger sucks more the more I shoot it and that can be fixed . Even with a less than stellar trigger I'm improving in matches . Not doing that withe the colt nor a glock . Forget the wheel guns . Yeah an STI I'm pretty sure is the next evolution but fact id XDM. performs and scores . If Sigs and HKs are your thing great . But until I see you at Steel Challenge Nationals or wind up next to you at a combat shotter's qualification course , maybe ease up on the insults . We are all here cause we love shooting . Don't be that guy .

 

[TheBigCountry]

Cobracutter up to his old ways. Different name, same old ways

 

[plong]

cobracutter up to his old ways. Different name, same old ways

mmwag...?

 

[Polizei45]

And HK has threaded barrels for the VP9.

 

[Polizei45]

HK has great deal going now. Buy a full size VP9 or P30 and get 4 free magazines.