SAI 1-6 7.62 BDC to MRAD (conversion)

[FieldGaugeFailure]

Recently I wrote to Armament Tech, inquiring if they would provide the exact BDC to MRAD for the 1-6 7.62 SAI LPVO. Their reply was as follows:

Meters MRAD

• 300 1.309
• 400 2.327
• 500 3.454
• 600 4.763
• 700 6.290
• 800 7.999

I figured this might be helpful for folks that are like me, and using the 1-6 on a spare rifle that doesn't meet their criteria for their BDC.

 

[bobke]

Love my Primary Arms 3x and 5x mini prisms, but they would not supply same when requested. They say ‘proprietary info’, and it can be sorted, but would be very helpful if they provided the dope for use with non BDC compliant loads.

 

[longshot2000]

Love my Primary Arms 3x and 5x mini prisms, but they would not supply same when requested. They say ‘proprietary info’, and it can be sorted...

Hmm. My guess is that they do not know or do not want to research it for you. PA has some really nice and easy to use reticles, but do you really think they gave that much calibration to a mini prism? When using an optic of that nature, the BDC is more of an estimate than a science. Your distance will not be that far, and trajectories are pretty easy to estimate up to 500 yards.

 

[bobke]

I’ll have to agree, though my normal MO is dialing mil based reticles. Not much time behind BDC or prisms yet, though using their generalized formula by caliber and velocity, they work. Have a griffin mil reticle in a 1-8 PLXC, and they’re now available in the 5x for those of us who prefer maybe a little more precision. I’ve taken the 5x BDC to 700 with a 6.5 Grendel once I followed Primary’s included guidance.
Apologize for threadjack.

 

[PappyM3]

Hmm. My guess is that they do not know or do not want to research it for you. …

No, they really just don’t want to give it out. The restriction is likely coming from Dimitri, who designs the ACSS reticles.

I’ve messaged with him about the ACSS Aurora-meters reticle when I was considering getting the now-discontinued ACSS ACOG. He absolutely refused to release the reticle subtensions. His reasoning was he didn’t want bad foreign actors to get hold of the data. As if it were some sort of national security information. They were okay releasing the yards version data, but somehow the meters version was too sensitive. He didn’t even use ITAR as a specific reason, just he didn’t want to release the data… even to a U.S. service member thinking of putting an optic with his reticle on his service M4.

I’ve since heard others having difficulty getting ACSS reticle data as well.

I’m a big fan of PA as a company, but they’ve completely lost me as a customer of their optics. All because of Dimitri’s attitude towards the reticles (being secretive about sub-tension data and adamantly sticking with chevrons for everything).

 

[PappyM3]

Recently I wrote to Armament Tech, inquiring if they would provide the exact BDC to MRAD for the 1-6 7.62 SAI LPVO. Their reply was as follows:

Meters MRAD

• 300 1.309
• 400 2.327
• 500 3.454
• 600 4.763
• 700 6.290
• 800 7.999

I figured this might be helpful for folks that are like me, and using the 1-6 on a spare rifle that doesn't meet their criteria for their BDC.

Thanks for sharing these data!

Does anybody else have the 5.56 or 6.8 subtensions? I figured I’d ask before bugging SAI.

 

[Ikeman83]

Get a piece of cm square graph paper with every 5 squares colored red (so you have a reference) and put it at 25 meters.

Every square is 0.4 Mil. count the squares between subtends. Done.

Edit, you can also put the graph paper at 20m (21 yds, 2 ft, 7 inches) and have every square be 0.5 Mil. If it's difficult to accurately measure 20m, you can take another optic and use your reticle to figure out the point where 0.5 mil = 1 square in your reticle.

 

[FieldGaugeFailure]

Thanks for sharing these data!

Does anybody else have the 5.56 or 6.8 subtensions? I figured I’d ask before bugging SAI.

It took them less than a day to reply back to me, they were happy to share the data. I would say just email Armament.

 

[PappyM3]

Get a piece of cm square graph paper with every 5 squares colored red (so you have a reference) and put it at 25 meters.

Every square is 0.4 Mil. count the squares between subtends. Done.

Edit, you can also put the graph paper at 20m (21 yds, 2 ft, 7 inches) and have every square be 0.5 Mil. If it's difficult to accurately measure 20m, you can take another optic and use your reticle to figure out the point where 0.5 mil = 1 square in your reticle.

Unfortunately that doesn’t help prospective consumers who don’t have the optic yet. But it does prove how stupid it is to not provide the subtension data for proprietary or security reasons.

For the ACSS Aurora I took a high quality reticle image PA posted, used a known-distance part of the reticle for reference and did pixel counting of the sub-tensions. Never ended up buying one though.

 

[NHR]

Unfortunately that doesn’t help prospective consumers who don’t have the optic yet. But it does prove how stupid it is to not provide the subtension data for proprietary or security reasons.

For the ACSS Aurora I took a high quality reticle image PA posted, used a known-distance part of the reticle for reference and did pixel counting of the sub-tensions. Never ended up buying one though.

Yeah, I've run into the PA secret info response as well. There are so many ways to figure out the sub tensions of anyone cares... PA is just pissing off potential customers.

And FFS they're making this shit in China. Do they really think their info is safe with a Chinese factory? It's not like posting basic reticle info like every other scope manufacturer will cause Ukraine to fall.

 

[beetroot]

Can't you just work of the subtensions using something like strelok where you get the reticle view?

 

[PappyM3]

Can't you just work of the subtensions using something like strelok where you get the reticle view?

Strelok needs to get the subtensions from the manufacturer first. PA/Dimitri refused to do that for certain reticles.

But further, Strelok has no more updates for new reticles in the US now, thanks to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and state department sanctions.

 

[beetroot]

Strelok needs to get the subtensions from the manufacturer first. PA/Dimitri refused to do that for certain reticles.

But further, Strelok has no more updates for new reticles in the US now, thanks to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and state department sanctions.

I only use Strelok as an example as that's what I'm familiar with, I thought other apps had the same reticle view built in.
Strelok does seem to have the ACSS reticle already built in so if you are able to download it, or still have it then that'll work.

I did find on one of the user guides a list of cartridges the ACSS is calibrated for, so you could work it out that way also.

 

[PappyM3]

I only use Strelok as an example as that's what I'm familiar with, I thought other apps had the same reticle view built in.
Strelok does seem to have the ACSS reticle already built in so if you are able to download it, or still have it then that'll work.

I did find on one of the user guides a list of cartridges the ACSS is calibrated for, so you could work it out that way also.

There are lots of different ACSS reticles. And the ones that weren’t provided to Strelok weren’t provided to anyone.

And those ACSS reticle zero guidance/calibrations are pretty garbage since they’re not for your specific load/barrel. And I don’t think they provide the MV or BC of the bullets that they used for their “calibrations”.

But I’m actually not aware of any SW/app other than Strelok that has a similar easy to use reticle view.

 

[beetroot]

There are lots of different ACSS reticles. And the ones that weren’t provided to Strelok weren’t provided to anyone.

And those ACSS reticle zero guidance/calibrations are pretty garbage since they’re not for your specific load/barrel.

But I’m actually not aware of any SW/app other than Strelok that has a similar easy to use reticle view.

It's complete BS that PA won't just provide the subtensions, but for potential buyers interested there are ways around it.

This is the table provided with the ACSS Aurora, with this info you can work it out.
You shouldn't have to work it out for yourself but you can if you need to.

 

[PappyM3]

It's complete BS that PA won't just provide the subtensions, but for potential buyers interested there are ways around it.

This is the table provided with the ACSS Aurora, with this info you can work it out.
You shouldn't have to work it out for yourself but you can if you need to.

View attachment 8404855

Yeah, unfortunately those don’t help you figure out the subtensions because they are gross approximations. Lots of unknowns, to include the bullet BCs they’re using, the exact MV they’re using for most, and we don’t actually know the ranges at each stadia. Just that they roughly line up.

 

[beetroot]

Yeah, unfortunately those don’t help you figure out the subtensions because they are gross approximations. Lots of unknowns, to include the bullet BCs they’re using, the exact MV they’re using for most, and we don’t actually know the ranges at each stadia. Just that they roughly line up.

They list the bullets used, FPS, zero distance and zero off set.
Using the info from that table and the bullets they have in JBM, I've worked out the average (across 14 different loads).

100y: 0
200y: 0.44mil
300y: 1.24mil
400y: 2.24mil
500y: 3.41mil
600y: 4.84mil

I'd imagine that is pretty darn close to the actual mil values.

 

[308pirate]

I’m a big fan of PA as a company, but they’ve completely lost me as a customer of their optics. All because of Dimitri’s attitude towards the reticles (being secretive about sub-tension data and adamantly sticking with chevrons for everything).

I have never liked any of that guys reticle designs. Some are passable others (like those they made for Holosun) are downright stupid

 

[LeftyJason]

Strelok needs to get the subtensions from the manufacturer first. PA/Dimitri refused to do that for certain reticles.

But further, Strelok has no more updates for new reticles in the US now, thanks to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and state department sanctions.

Second paragraph not true.
Bought Jan 6th this year for$10.71.
Galaxy store.

 

[PappyM3]

Second paragraph not true.
Bought Jan 6th this year for$10.71.
Galaxy store.
View attachment 8405133

Interesting. Are you in the U.S.? He was supposed to have been removed from app stores in the U.S. due to sanctions. Though I do understand Android users had work-arounds.

If you have access in the U.S. from the Galaxy App Store, that’s great. I may get a Samsung Galaxy without a plan to use for a range tool.

 

[LeftyJason]

Interesting. Are you in the U.S.? He was supposed to have been removed from app stores in the U.S. due to sanctions. Though I do understand Android users had work-arounds.

If you have access in the U.S. from the Galaxy App Store, that’s great. I may get a Samsung Galaxy without a plan to use for a range tool.

My location is accurate. Currently at work in Ogden Utah.

 

[Ikeman83]

You can get Strelok Pro from the Galaxy store, but if you bought it from Google Play you can't update it