Sale issue. What would you do?

[canezach]

Long post ahead, so forgive me:

Let's say you offered to sell a Chargemaster on this site to a person. You get contacted by another party who says they're interested in your CM. First person says they found one, so the second person agrees to buy it. The buyer as it turns out, has ZERO posts and joined the site about 24 hours before contacting you, but you didn't learn that until today.

Buyer pays via PayPal (i'm assuming Friends and Family). You ship it via USPS the next day. Within an hour, the buyer is already saying there's an issue because the tracking number isn't giving any info (if you've shipped USPS, you know they're notoriously slow to update). You tell buyer to give it some time, which they apparently do.

Buyer texts you at 1045 their time this morning to say it arrived first thing in the morning, but there's a problem. Keypad isn't working as it should. The number 2 button is registering as number 1 and the number 8 isn't working at all. Now, you've never had a problem with it, and two of your loads have been 40.8 and 42.0, so you KNOW both those buttons worked when you shipped. You say you've never had a problem, but you know it's been shipped through some cold weather states, so maybe it just needs to warm up. You say give it some time to warm up and try again, but if it still doesn't work, to ship it back. By 1pm their time, buyer has already taken it back to USPS.

Something here isn't sitting right with me. I know for a fact the Chargemaster worked properly when I shipped it. The fact the buyer was already looking for an issue within an hour after I shipped is a little concerning. The lack of posts, the join date, them reaching out to me... my instincts are saying something hinky is going on

 

[Fig]

So, you've got his money? Right?

And, now he's sending it back? Right?

Are there distinguishing marks on it, or do you have a SN, or is there a way to confirm he's sending the same unit back?

 

[Threadcutter308]

So, you've got his money? Right?

And, now he's sending it back? Right?

Are there distinguishing marks on it, or do you have a SN, or is there a way to confirm he's sending the same unit back?

Agreed. Anytime I sell/ship something, I take pics of the unit running and the S/N, assuming one is available. I also take pics of the incremental packing as well as the finished packing of the box. Only ever had a problem once. A guy up in BC tried to screw me out of a fishing rod that was delivered by Canada Poste to him. I had the presence of mind to purchase signature confirmation when I shipped it. He tried weasling around for about a week, saying he never received it. I dug up the delivery signature document that Canada Poste had sent me, sent it to him and asked him how much further he wanted to go down the mail fraud rabbit hole. Funny, he e-mailed me back about 15 minutes later and said he had "found" it.

 

[Veer_G]

VJJ, bless his non-postin' soul, would have made a facetious remark about CSI, bodily fluids as genetic evidence, and a scratched NF scope.

Don't do deals with people that may bite you in the ass because they suffer whineyfuckitis. Due diligence to deter devious douchebags does deliver delightful dealings.

 

[canezach]

I have photographs of me incrementally packaging it into the original box, photos of the accessories being taped down to the original packaging, me boxing it up, etc. Something just doesn't feel right here

 

[diverdon]

If you get it back and it works refund his money less your shipping costs. If you get it back and the problem he described is real then you get to eat the shipping and you should refund all his money.

Until the unit you sent him is back in your hands, you do not owe him anything.

 

[MtnCreek]

See what shows up in the mail and go from there. I would feel obligated to cover the return shipping cost if it is not working as it should. I assume the buyer can get his paypal money back w/o even getting your consent, correct?

Paypal is owned by ebay, correct? It's cost me some deals here, but I refuse to give those Constitution hating, commie assholes any money. I know they'll just use it to attack me, my family and God lovin, gun totin America.

 

[canezach]

If you get it back and it works refund his money less your shipping costs. If you get it back and the problem he described is real then you get to eat the shipping and you should refund all his money.

Until the unit you sent him is back in your hands, you do not owe him anything.

I've already told him i'm not refunding his money until it's back in my hands and if I can replicate the problem, I would reimburse his return shipping as well

 

[JLP.Payette]

I've already told him i'm not refunding his money until it's back in my hands and if I can replicate the problem, I would reimburse his return shipping as well

if it left you working I wouldn't reimburse return shipping. Most sellers on Ebay dont.

 

[supercorndogs]

if it left you working I wouldn't reimburse return shipping. Most sellers on Ebay dont.

Thats not true. If someone complains an item is broken or not as described, Ebay sets them up with a return shipping label that charges the sellers pay pal account..

 

[Redmanss]

I've already told him i'm not refunding his money until it's back in my hands and if I can replicate the problem, I would reimburse his return shipping as well

To me, that sounds more than fair and in line with standard forum sales etiquette.

 

[hlee]

And, if you can show that what he sent back is not your unit, tell him to eat a giant bag of dicks and post his name so we all know who he is...

 

[Kadams1563]

I would keep his money and his charge master.

Fuckem. He’s looking for a problem or just plain retarded.

 

[JLP.Payette]

Thats not true. If someone complains an item is broken or not as described, Ebay sets them up with a return shipping label that charges the sellers pay pal account..

I think that would be in the extreme, not the norm.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Did you post this for sale in the forum, or all handled by PM?
Even ebay frowns on behind the scenes sales.

 

[canezach]

Did you post this for sale in the forum, or all handled by PM?
Even ebay frowns on behind the scenes sales.

Someone else posted a WTB Chargemaster thread. I replied and said I have one I'd sell. The original guy responded an hour or so later and said he had bought one already. I then received a PM from the eventual buyer saying he was interested in buying mine

 

[Rocketvapor]

I knew already. I read your post history
I hate to say it, buy I don't think I would sell to a zero post wonder.

You can tell a lot about someone from their history, unless of course they have none.

If the money was exchanged via Paypal F&F then your recourse will be limited.
Post a picture of the unit/serial number before you get the unit back (if you get it back).
If he sends another unit then that might be fraud. He might even be watching the forum to see if anyone notices.
Your actions after receiving it will depend on functionality.

 

[AIAW]

Let @Tucker301 know about this as well if it turns truly sour. We don't need that guys shit in the PX.

 

[Rocketvapor]

What's the policy on non PX deals?
Does it get a zero poster banned?

 

[AIAW]

Non-PX deal, not that I am aware of. That's between the seller and buyer.

Now a PX deal that isn't honored or is retracted after an "I'll take it" OR a PM... one way ticket, stage left.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Maybe filing a claim with the USPS would be in order.
Even if the buyer was correct and you refund all the purchase price plus return shipping, you are still out your postage.

 

[Tucker301]

if it left you working I wouldn't reimburse return shipping. Most sellers on Ebay dont.

Best thing you could do is leave here and go to eBay.

 

[Tucker301]

What's the policy on non PX deals?
Does it get a zero poster banned?

If the zero poster interacted through this site and is found to have behaved unethically they will be removed.

 

[Tucker301]

So far you are handling it perfectly. You may PM me with any additional information or concerns.

 

[supercorndogs]

I think that would be in the extreme, not the norm.

No that is policy. I have been on both sides of it. Quit making shit up, just because you think it, doesn't make it true.

 

[Redmanss]

It's hilarious when people compare eBay to the Hide, and bitch when they realize it isn't. Keep pushing the issue, and we'll see the whole PX shut down with a couple clicks of a mouse and Frank's wrath.

It's always the fucking new guys screwing shit up...

 

[Rocketvapor]

Glad to hear the policies here try and follow ethics and fairness. (Yes I read the rules, even the reiteration post) While ebay tends to afford the buyer a little more security than a seller I think they also try. Many don't like ebay but a little over a thousand transactions (mostly buying) I've never really been burnt.
We don't yet know the final outcome of this transaction, hope it works out but someone will likely bite some postage one way or the other.
My one and only (so far) transaction here went great. The seller wanted to move something and spent most of the sales price on postage.
($15 out of $25).
Funds transferred via F&F requires trust, mostly the buyer trusting the seller as once paid all you can do is hope.
The comment to keep the guys money and the product probably isn't per SH policy.
One thing that could have been done in this case would have been video documentation of the failure. I had to do that once with a foreign ebay vendor. Video of a non functioning unit and I got a full refund without involving ebay. Documentation is usually a Good Thing.

 

[Redmanss]

I'm at well over $20k changing hands back and forth here on the Hide, probably over $30k but my buying and selling records aren't near as meticulous as my reloading and round count records. I got hosed once, the seller (long time and well respected member, this was back in the Feedback day too) was not at fault in that case either as I bought a rifle from him that he had bought face to face, it ended up being stolen when I went to complete the transaction at my FFL. I chalked that up to lesson learned and ate it, and I don't buy a firearm now that the seller ships direct from him to my FFL cannot produce a retail bill of sale, and I even incur the additional expense for them to ship through their FFL for my own protection.

Communication and trust goes a long way, as well as I don't don't do business with new members and state as much in my FS posts. I have my own personal 50 credible post minimum to sell to someone and also state I reserve the right to refuse the sale to anyone I suspect as being a scammer. I also have an absolute "No PayPal" rule, but that's more for their anti-gun stance than anything.

All that being said, I'd be surprised if there was less than a 99.5% satisfaction rate from the PX here, it's just the shit heads that hit the skyline and take up the mod's time.

 

[Tucker301]

We assume that all parties are trustworthy and honorable until one or the other proves themselves otherwise.
It's fascinating the lengths to which some will go to accomplish that very thing.

 

[canezach]

Guys, I realize i'm probably overthinking it, or twenty years as a cop has made me cynical, but I can't see how my Chargemaster was working fine when I texted a picture to show the buyer it worked, but now two buttons don't work after packaging it back into the original box with the plastic mold inserts (if you have a chargemaster, you know what i'm talking about), putting the original box into a larger brown box, filling the gaps with newspaper to make sure it didn't slide around during transit, and taping it shut. I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but it doesn't add up. I've bought and sold a few thousand dollars worth of gear on here. I'm not about to trash my reputation over $275 to sell a busted item.

 

[Redmanss]

Guys, I realize i'm probably overthinking it, or twenty years as a cop has made me cynical, but I can't see how my Chargemaster was working fine when I texted a picture to show the buyer it worked, but now two buttons don't work after packaging it back into the original box with the plastic mold inserts (if you have a chargemaster, you know what i'm talking about), putting the original box into a larger brown box, filling the gaps with newspaper to make sure it didn't slide around during transit, and taping it shut. I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but it doesn't add up.

These days there is a buy it, check it out and return it mentality that I just don't comprehend. If it works when you get it back, chalk it up to kicking tires and/or buyer's remorse, and put it behind you. And don't forget to drop Tucker a line on that as well...

 

[Tucker301]

Guys, I realize i'm probably overthinking it, or twenty years as a cop has made me cynical, but I can't see how my Chargemaster was working fine when I texted a picture to show the buyer it worked, but now two buttons don't work after packaging it back into the original box with the plastic mold inserts (if you have a chargemaster, you know what i'm talking about), putting the original box into a larger brown box, filling the gaps with newspaper to make sure it didn't slide around during transit, and taping it shut. I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but it doesn't add up. I've bought and sold a few thousand dollars worth of gear on here. I'm not about to trash my reputation over $275 to sell a busted item.

I know nothing about the model you shipped, but just leaving this here for your review.
Apparently there have been some issues with poor solder connections on some of them.
It's not inconceivable that temperature changes and perhaps some rough handling in transit could have made a couple them lose what little good connection they had left.

 

[myronman3]

all i have to say about any of it is zero posts should have been enough of a clue.

i have bought a few things from guys here, and everyone has been top notch. check the good guy list, you can’t lose.

when it comes to dealing with folks here that have no history on site, no feed back, well....i treat that the same way i do on gunbroker or anywhere else....it aint worth the headache or risk. and if in doubt, a brief phone conversation helps you know what kind of person you are dealing with.

 

[sinister]

From the manual (emphasis added):

CHARGEMASTER 1500 SCALE INSTRUCTIONS:

GENERAL INFORMATION The scale should be stored and used at normal room temperature. It should never be stored in cold or freezing temperatures, which can damage the load cell. If the scale has been sitting at a cool temperature, remove it from the carton and allow it to sit at room temperature for about 20 to 30 minutes before using.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Have never had a problem buying or selling on the hide. But if I did I would generally not sweat it.

 

[Strykervet]

1. If he sent it F&F, the money is yours. Period. Whether you give it back or not will be based on your ethics.

2. Regular Paypal offers pretty good coverage. If you screw him, they'll give him the money back. I always use this on here, the 2.9% is worth it for the protection. Just in case. I also insure anything worth more than $100 or so.

3. I'd seriously check to see if its yours. Both the dispenser and scale. Was it taken apart? I think there's a warranty sticker over one of the holes. I had to take mine apart to fix one time.

4. If yours, and working, I'd tell him you'll be keeping the money, and furthermore he'll need to send you shipping AND handling for you to return it. Something fair, but actual shipping plus whatever you deem appropriate for the extra time fucking with this. If he decided he just didn't want it after it arrived, well, tough shit. You ain't Amazon.

5. Just hope you have some way of showing it's yours. Hopefully the pictures you took caught something.

Having two buttons go to shit just because you mailed it sounds awful fishy to me. It does sound like the guy is up to something. In the future, deal with people who have been around a while. Never been screwed by a member with lots of posts who has been around for years. They won't piss on their reputation here for a couple thousand or even more to fuck someone over. Not worth it if you're really a member of this site.

I'll sell small shit to a new guy if he pays and all is legit. Usually not selling anything they can bitch about though, nothing electronic and nothing expensive. So far I've never had a problem, I had one guy drag shit out for a long time but he eventually came through and then some.

Good luck!

PS, kinda wondering if you get it back or not, then him wanting a refund. You know, because he sent it back. If not F&F make sure they understand there can be no proof of delivery since nothing was delivered, that they should focus on that, on the tracking. If it comes to it.

 

[JLP.Payette]

No that is policy. I have been on both sides of it. Quit making shit up, just because you think it, doesn't make it true.

I just read the Ebay policy and I stand corrected. I guess Ive been a decent seller and never needed to go that route. No need to be a dick about it! This has nothing to do with Ebay so I shouldnt have mentioned Ebay to begin with. Any ways in this instance I wouldnt pay return shipping unless I got it back (the same unit) and I could replicate what the buyer described.. as others have mentioned above.

 

[Dirty D]

Why the ever living fuck any of you use PayPal for firearms transactions or ANY other transactions is completely beyond me. PayPal is as anti 2a as any company out there, vote with your dollars and quit giving them a dime. I use USPS money orders because if I get screwed the Postal Inspector gets involved and terms like mail fraud enter the conversation.

Quit using PayPal!

 

[Rocketvapor]

Why the ever living fuck any of you use PayPal for firearms transactions or ANY other transactions is completely beyond me. PayPal is as anti 2a as any company out there, vote with your dollars and quit giving them a dime. I use USPS money orders because if I get screwed the Postal Inspector gets involved and terms like mail fraud enter the conversation.
Quit using PayPal!

If sellers would put the terms of the sale in the ad then anyone wanting to pay with Paypal would know to move on.
You do know that a buyer can go into some Post Offices and buy a Money Order and pay with Paypal?

 

[Dirty D]

...You do know that a buyer can go into some Post Offices and buy a Money Order and pay with Paypal?

I have a curious habit of not worrying about shit that I can’t control.

 

[hermosabeach]

If Friends and Family- you normally don't get charged back

If not F&F, expect Pay pay to refund the buyers money

If Paypay contacts you and it was a F&F payment, don't acknowledge it was for goods.

 

[canezach]

So, to resolve this issue, I received the Chargemaster back today. I opened it, plugged it in, and all the buttons worked as they were supposed to. I took a video of me pressing all the buttons several times and sent it to the "buyer". Obviously, i'm not refunding his shipping costs to get it back to me (which for some strange reason cost him $5 more than it cost ne to send it to him), but should I refund him the full $275 and be done with it, or send him back $275 minus what i paid to ship it to him?

@Tucker301 I'll PM you with his name

 

[JLP.Payette]

So, to resolve this issue, I received the Chargemaster back today. I opened it, plugged it in, and all the buttons worked as they were supposed to. I took a video of me pressing all the buttons several times and sent it to the "buyer". Obviously, i'm not refunding his shipping costs to get it back to me (which for some strange reason cost him $5 more than it cost ne to send it to him), but should I refund him the full $275 and be done with it, or send him back $275 minus what i paid to ship it to him?

Sounds like he had a case of buyers remorse. I’d hate to eat the initial shipping, probably less headache to just send him his $275 and be done. A cool buyer would meet in the middle.

 

[TheGerman]

Personally, I'd rub my balls on it and send it back to the buyer as well as keep his money.

Otherwise just refund his money less shipping. He's not going to do shit about it.

 

[sabrecross]

Refund minus shipping

 

[Dirty D]

1. Keep money
2. Send it back
3. Throw a few pubes in the bottom of the box.

 

[Ironcreek]

Agreed, sounds like he had buyers remorse. You proved it works so refund him the money minus shipping.

 

[Tucker301]

@6ppcLH - stop lurking and start talking. What's your side of it?