Sanity check and input on plans

[Jonny_]

I am fairly inexperienced in precision, long-range shooting so hopefully I can get a sanity check and/or input regarding my plans.

I am currently using a Tikka Tac A1 in 308 with a Vortex PST II 5-25; I love it and haven’t had any issue getting consistent hits at 1K (in decent weather, still struggling with wind) with Berger 155.5 Full-bore rounds. The tikka has been great but I am going to change to a lefty rifle. I also want to get out to 1500+.

Immediate plan is to order a Bighorn Origin 6.5 Creedmoor barreled action from Keystone Accuracy – or perhaps Patriot Valley; TT Diamond, KRG Bravo, and Area 419 Hellfire. Farther down the road plans are an upgrade/change in scope to Mil and a TBAC Ultra 7. Usage is target shooting with occasional hunting. I am not currently reloading but hope to get the requisite equipment while the rifle is built; I know, this is a terrible time and economy to start.

Have I overlooked anything important? Are there better options I should be pursuing?

 

[kthomas]

Sounds like a good plan. Do you have any specific concerns or questions about that build?

That's a pretty solid build you have planned, all are great components.

 

[JC0352]

So you’re a lefty shooting a right handed rifle, currently?

If your really like the Tikka, you could get a left-handed one, get a better scope, then upgrade components on the rifle as you go. Just another option. Your plan seems good though.

 

[Newbie2020]

Why not just rebarrel the Tikka to 6.5cm and save some $$? Because who wants two rifles???!!! hahahahahah...sorry.

 

[Jonny_]

Sounds like a good plan. Do you have any specific concerns or questions about that build?

No, not especially. I just like getting input from people that know more than me and have already been down these paths. Good chance it could save me headache.

 

[Jonny_]

So you’re a lefty shooting a right handed rifle, currently?

That's mostly correct. I'm left-eye dominate but right handed. I've been shooting left-handed my whole life so for all intent's and purposes I'm a lefty.

 

[fdkay]

7mm SAUM, go big or go home. 162 ELDM at 3000 fps

 

[kthomas]

No, not especially. I just like getting input from people that know more than me and have already been down these paths. Good chance it could save me headache.

A lot of it is personal preference, but all the components you mentioned are good quality components that should serve you well.

 

[Steel head]

Not a bad plan.
You’ll like what the 6.5’s do.

 

[huntnh]

If you really want the rifle to reach its full potential you should definitely start to focus on reloading. Sounds like a nice build Josh does great work

 

[Jonny_]

So you’re a lefty shooting a right handed rifle, currently?

If your really like the Tikka, you could get a left-handed one, get a better scope, then upgrade components on the rifle as you go. Just another option. Your plan seems good though.

I thought about that. I decided not to for a couple reasons. 1) I've read that Tikka barrels are slow and I'd like to avoid that; 2) I'd like to future proof if possible, Tikka chassis and stocks choices seem a bit more limited and I can only use a tikka in them. With a 700 footprint I have more flexibility to change/sell/swap down the road.

I do like the Tikkas I've shot though.

 

[Jonny_]

If you really want the rifle to reach its full potential you should definitely start to focus on reloading. Sounds like a nice build Josh does great work

Josh = Keystone?

 

[The D]

7mm SAUM, go big or go home. 162 ELDM at 3000 fps

I know 6.5cm is more capable than .308 but if you’re starting from scratch you should jump a little farther up in capability. Especially since barrel swaps are so easy on Tikka’s and Origin’s.

If you really want the rifle to reach its full potential you should definitely start to focus on reloading. Sounds like a nice build Josh does great work

Also, this^

 

[Jonny_]

I know 6.5cm is more capable than .308 but if you’re starting from scratch you should jump a little farther up in capability. Especially since barrel swaps are so easy on Tikka’s and Origin’s.

Also, this^

I'm certainly open to a different cartridge, especially as I am starting from scratch like you said. Are you suggesting 7 SAUM as well?

 

[The D]

I'm certainly open to a different cartridge, especially as I am starting from scratch like you said. Are you suggesting 7 SAUM as well?

Yeah, it has tons of potential. A short action will limit you a little, but you can single feed rounds. And in order to squeeze the most out of it you’ll have to reload and get a barrel throated to fit longer bullets

Stepping up to the .535 bolt face opens up your options to some screaming cartridges, the SAUM, WSM, & PRC variants

Is there an extra cost to get a barreled action in a magnum cartridge? That’s another thing you’d have to take into consideration. But since barrel swaps on a Tikka are so simple you might as well buy an action with a different bolt face, otherwise it’s kind of redundant

edit: Full disclosure before you start asking anything really specific. My wife and I have been focusing on getting out of debt and having kids so we don’t have too much expendable income. This recommendation only comes from me reading about bolt gun possibilities over the last few years

 

[JC0352]

I wouldn’t recommend a SAUM since the OP hasn’t even started reloading

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Sounds like a good rig that you have planned.
TAC A1 has a lefty option, I believe.
Upgrade your scope if needed.
Good glass makes life much easier.
Swapped to Vortex Razor on all my rifles now, loving it.
6.5 Creedmoor is a nice round for recoil and accuracy.
Just enjoy.

 

[fdkay]

I wouldn’t recommend a SAUM since the OP hasn’t even started reloading

Missed that. Totally agree. 6.5 CM is an excellent starting point.

 

[The D]

I wouldn’t recommend a SAUM since the OP hasn’t even started reloading

Missed that. Totally agree. 6.5 CM is an excellent starting point.

He said he would start collecting equipment and components while the rifle is being built

 

[Jonny_]

I wouldn’t recommend a SAUM since the OP hasn’t even started reloading

Reloading is getting started regardless of what cartridge I go with; I had been delaying starting as I knew I would move away from the 308 eventually and factory match offerings were working fine. In hindsight I should have started reloading years ago and I would be ahead of the curve at this point.

 

[fdkay]

Reloading is getting started regardless of what cartridge I go with; I had been delaying starting as I knew I would move away from the 308 eventually and factory match offerings were working fine. In hindsight I should have started reloading years ago and I would be ahead of the curve at this point.

It's always nice to have a .308 in the stable. You could be quite competitive with the right bullet in the 155 class.

 

[Jonny_]

Yeah, it has tons of potential. A short action will limit you a little, but you can single feed rounds. And in order to squeeze the most out of it you’ll have to reload and get a barrel throated to fit longer bullets

Stepping up to the .535 bolt face opens up your options to some screaming cartridges, the SAUM, WSM, & PRC variants

Is there an extra cost to get a barreled action in a magnum cartridge? That’s another thing you’d have to take into consideration. But since barrel swaps on a Tikka are so simple you might as well buy an action with a different bolt face, otherwise it’s kind of redundant

edit: Full disclosure before you start asking anything really specific. My wife and I have been focusing on getting out of debt and having kids so we don’t have too much expendable income. This recommendation only comes from me reading about bolt gun possibilities over the last few years

From the little reading I've done on 7mm SAUM, you really want to go with a LA to allow for seating longer bullets without eating into case capacity?
Keystone doesn't list a barreled LA service but he does have standalone LA Origins listed I'll have to check if he's willing to provide both together. PVA offers this combination at roughly the same cost so either way it's available.

Good for you and your wife - those goals carry more far value than building a new rifle.

 

[The D]

From the little reading I've done on 7mm SAUM, you really want to go with a LA to allow for seating longer bullets without eating into case capacity?
Keystone doesn't list a barreled LA service but he does have standalone LA Origins listed I'll have to check if he's willing to provide both together. PVA offers this combination at roughly the same cost so either way it's available.

Good for you and your wife - those goals carry more far value than building a new rifle.

Yes, long action is easier to work with in the case of the SAUM and WSM. Using a long action also opens up the option to get barrels in 300 PRC and be able to use magazines instead of single feed

 

[JC0352]

He said he would start collecting equipment and components while the rifle is being built

Reloading is getting started regardless of what cartridge I go with; I had been delaying starting as I knew I would move away from the 308 eventually and factory match offerings were working fine. In hindsight I should have started reloading years ago and I would be ahead of the curve at this point.

It’s going to be difficult regardless in today’s climate. What if the gun gets built and you still can’t find primers? No option for factory 7saum ammo (I don’t think).

I would still stick with a Creedmoor if primarily target shooting and occasional hunting. You can reload that, too

 

[The D]

It’s going to be difficult regardless in today’s climate. What if the gun gets built and you still can’t find primers? No option for factory 7saum ammo (I don’t think).

I would still stick with a Creedmoor if primarily target shooting and occasional hunting. You can reload that, too

If he’s going to go with 6.5cm he might as well just buy a pre-fit barrel from somewhere and not bother with a complete gun. Unless he just wants to buy a new gun...

 

[Steel head]

I wouldn’t recommend a SAUM since the OP hasn’t even started reloading

 

[JC0352]

If he’s going to go with 6.5cm he might as well just buy a pre-fit barrel from somewhere and not bother with a complete gun. Unless he just wants to buy a new gun...

Well, his Tikka is right handed and he wants a lefty so...

 

[SonoranPrecision]

7saum would be a horrible choice to start out with. You can’t find ammo. You can’t find brass. You can’t find primers. You can barely find powder. If you really want a short magnum, 6.5 prc would be a much better choice. The creedmoor will be stretching a little bit at 1500, but it’s definitely doable.

 

[The D]

Well, his Tikka is right handed and he wants a lefty so...

Fuck, there is that too I guess

I’d still choose a .535 bolt face though. Plenty of easy button options to get to 1500yds. And like SonoranPrecision pointed out, 6.5 PRC would be easier right away. I think it would still be worthwhile to get a 7mm something-or-other after all the ammo components can be sourced

 

[JC0352]

I guess what type of long range shooting he wants to do is key. If all he wants to do is prone-out and shoot as far as possible, then sure.

Now in my personal experience, that got boring really fast, so I started going to local matches and I got hooked. Short action magnums are overkill for that.

 

[The D]

I guess what type of long range shooting he wants to do is key. If all he wants to do is prone-out and shoot as far as possible, then sure.

Now in my personal experience, that got boring really fast, so I started going to local matches and I got hooked. Short action magnums are overkill for that.

I’ve been projecting my bolt gun wishes in this thread a tad

 

[JC0352]

It’s fun to spend other people’s money and one’s answers are often influenced by what they personally like/gravitate to.

 

[bschneiderheinze]

If not shooting positional I think I would go with something that’s got a little more horsepower like the 6.5 or 300 prc. I had a 300 wsm that was a hammer but sold it when I got into PRS. I do know a guy that shoots 7 saum in PRS but that pig weighs like 30lbs.

 

[SonoranPrecision]

I guess what type of long range shooting he wants to do is key. If all he wants to do is prone-out and shoot as far as possible, then sure.

Now in my personal experience, that got boring really fast, so I started going to local matches and I got hooked. Short action magnums are overkill for that.

I’ve got a TL3 (an origin works too) with a 6.5cm barrel for matches, and a 7saum barrel for hunting. But I agree, short mags are a pretty task specific thing, and definitely overkill for general use.

 

[Jonny_]

The hope is to start participating in PRS; from the events I've spectated at the local distance range, a huge portion of the field were running various flavors of 6mm and 6.5 Creedmoor. That was one of the contributing factors towards initially picking 6.5.

I think I should probably go with 6.5 for the time being. Stepping up to something bigger might be putting the cart before the horse. I certainly have a lot of skill yet to acquire before I can truly take advantage of a more powerful round. Not to mention the valid points raised above concerning reloading components.

 

[The D]

The hope is to start participating in PRS; from the events I've spectated at the local distance range, a huge portion of the field were running various flavors of 6mm and 6.5 Creedmoor. That was one of the contributing factors towards initially picking 6.5.

I think I should probably go with 6.5 for the time being. Stepping up to something bigger might be putting the cart before the horse. I certainly have a lot of skill yet to acquire before I can truly take advantage of a more powerful round. Not to mention the valid points raised above concerning reloading components.

Dammit, I’m trying to spend your money on what I want. Why you gotta cock block?

 

[Chickentoast]

For 1500, a Creed will be hard to spot misses, and will miss a lot. More like rolling dice than shooting, unless there is no wind. I don't enjoy that nor do I see the point, so unless I can get 7/10 hits, I'm too far away. That might be weather, equipment, or me, but regardless, the activity is either building skills or reinforcing bad habits. So, my recommendations come with that caveat.

6.5 can do it with heavies and a magnum case, but it would be much easier with a 7 or a 30 cal. The less BC you have, the faster you will need to push it. Start playing with ballistic calculators and it becomes obvious, it's more about the projectile than the cartridge, but you still need enough cartridge to stay supersonic and have a chance in wind. Example - I have a 308 running 208 eld-m's @ 2640, which basically mirrors 6.5 Creed 147 ballistics. Also in 30 cal, I have a 300 RUM pushing 220 lrht's @ 3175. The 300 RUM @ 1500 is like shooting the 308 @ 1000, and shooting the 300 RUM @ 1000 is like the 308 @ 600.

 

[Jonny_]

Yeah I've had trouble spotting hits at 1100/1200 with 308, I'm sure that 6.5 at 1400/1500 is much the same.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

What you need, is an illegal immigrant with a comlink, bright flag, and pointer.
He, she, it, I don't judge, can sit down range and walk you in.
They can set up the GoPro as well.
You don't need to feed them much, and they are grateful for a decent hutch and worn out blanket.

 

[Jonny_]

Something I missed,
For those of you that have been providing some input, which contour is recommended on a 26" barrel? Something like an M24 or Medium Palma?

 

[CK1.0]

Before you go 6.5CM I'd suggest thinking it over and make sure that's what you really want to do..?

6.5CM is usually the default suggestion due to it being ubiquitous and its balance of performance-to-barrel life... but I don't think it's that simple: IMO IDK if it's really worth bothering with 6.5, because more than likely if you're getting pulled into this, you'll be going to a 6mm-something else when it's time for a new barrel anyways.

If you think about it, the cost of new barrels isn't really that high in a sport where bags of sand cost $100 lol (and decent prefits one can screw on themselves can be found for ~$400).

While 6.5 will seem softer and be an upgrade from .308, it's still not the easiest to spot through glass. Pick a cartridge that lets you spot for yourself, see your impacts, see your misses, it's more better! That's what everybody is chasing when they're slapping on weights and going to BR-based cartridges... yeah, it's about recoil impulse but it's not due to "kick" it's about what you can see downrange.

IMO barrel-life is kind of over-rated: shoot what's most fun and works best, not what lasts longest. As an example, a 6CM barrel will "only" last ~1500rds depending on how hard you run it, while a 6.5CM will go ~2500rds. If you go Gucci and shoot A-Tips you're looking at ~$2 a round... sure you want to spend an extra $2000 in ammo costs holding onto a barrel longer when it shoots a round that's harder to spot?

For PRS it's M24/Heavy Palma/MTU/Proof Comp -heavy is the new light.

 

[Jonny_]

Before you go 6.5CM I'd suggest thinking it over and make sure that's what you really want to do..?

6.5CM is usually the default suggestion due to it being ubiquitous and its balance of performance-to-barrel life... but I don't think it's that simple: IMO IDK if it's really worth bothering with 6.5, because more than likely if you're getting pulled into this, you'll be going to a 6mm-something else when it's time for a new barrel anyways.

If you think about it, the cost of new barrels isn't really that high in a sport where bags of sand cost $100 lol (and decent prefits one can screw on themselves can be found for ~$400).

While 6.5 will seem softer and be an upgrade from .308, it's still not the easiest to spot through glass. Pick a cartridge that lets you spot for yourself, see your impacts, see your misses, it's more better! That's what everybody is chasing when they're slapping on weights and going to BR-based cartridges... yeah, it's about recoil impulse but it's not due to "kick" it's about what you can see downrange.

IMO barrel-life is kind of over-rated: shoot what's most fun and works best, not what lasts longest. As an example, a 6CM barrel will "only" last ~1500rds depending on how hard you run it, while a 6.5CM will go ~2500rds. If you go Gucci and shoot A-Tips you're looking at ~$2 a round... sure you want to spend an extra $2000 in ammo costs holding onto a barrel longer when it shoots a round that's harder to spot?

For PRS it's M24/Heavy Palma/MTU/Proof Comp -heavy is the new light.

Like I said previously, I'm open to a different chambering. But, I'm not going with a round with very limited factory offerings as I'm not yet reloading and I'd have to be in order to even start shooting a chambering like 7 saum. If there's a solid argument for a different chambering, I'm all ears.

As to barrel-life, I'm not really factoring that cost in. I'm not shooting round counts high enough to be replacing a barrel biannually. I wish I was though.

 

[CK1.0]

I'd recommend 6mm creedmoor over 6.5 then, as it's actually probably going to be easier to find factory ammo for it as compared to 6.5 as it's slightly more "exotic". Much easier to spot shots too.

 

[Jonny_]

I'll look into that then. I appreciate the input.

 

[SonoranPrecision]

Something I missed,
For those of you that have been providing some input, which contour is recommended on a 26" barrel? Something like an M24 or Medium Palma?

Medium Palma might be a little light. Heavy Palma, m24, or heavy varmint would all be just fine. Once you have a barrel that will hold together for 10-15rnd strings of fire, then the goal becomes getting the rifle to balance at your desired overall weight.