Saojao 14.9mm Update

[cavemanmoore]

The first 20 rounds were fired last weekend. The bullets appeared completely stable at 500 yards (POI matched POA on paper and the holes were nice and round

) . Hoping for longer range testing in the next few weeks. Below are a couple of videos:

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[BusterB]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

Man I'm really rooting for this thing to work, I wanna see it in action!

 

[goober]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

WTF is with the lullaby cradle the rifle is in , doesn't he trust shooting this thing or what ?
projectiles 500 yards and stable -impressive

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

So are you firing it from the swingy thing

A. so you can measure the free recoil, or

B. because firing it from the shoulder would knock your dick in your watch pocket, or

C. both A. and B.?

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So are you firing it from the swingy thing

A. so you can measure the free recoil, or

B. because firing it from the shoulder would knock your dick in your watch pocket, or

C. both A. and B.? </div></div>

Option A. They were measuring free recoil. The platform is also new and not proven, so it seemed prudent to proceed with caution.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

Cool.

I was wondering, did you guys shoot some "proof" overloaded rounds to test the action?

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cool.

I was wondering, did you guys shoot some "proof" overloaded rounds to test the action? </div></div>

My understanding is that this rifle is a test unit, only designed to test this cartridge. I don't know what Jon's plans are going forward.

 

[excaliber]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

Are you sure Jon wanted this posted on here?

 

[matthias]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

very cool to see this this finally get shot! when will the rest of us be able to buy a few rounds and shoot it?

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

are you the guys that started the fires in CO with that thing??

 

[purepursuit]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

I'd like to see the size of the hole this round punches.

 

[hiddenmongoose]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

14.9mm id imagine!!

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are you the guys that started the fires in CO with that thing?? </div></div>
Who knows with that Beast! They could probably set up in Virginia and start fires in Colorado!

 

[0481]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

Hoping this cannon dose well. If it dose how do I get one in commifornia?

 

[mrjimsfc]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 0481</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hoping this cannon dose well. If it dose how do I get one in commifornia? </div></div>
The same way you get someone to clean your swimming pool or serve you your burger and fries.

 

[0481]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

Point is in commifornia its a DD and we can't have it.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

I just want somebody to cull an elephant with this rifle from about 100 yards and please get it on video.

 

[Nathan11B]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fngmike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just want somebody to cull an elephant with this rifle from about 100 yards and please get it on video. </div></div>

Is it okay to be in agreement with this ?

 

[excaliber]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

If anyone who ever read the 5000 meter post, they would know what kind of bullets Saojao is using. So with that being said, these bullets will not expand, basically shooting an elephant with the 14.9 or with the 50 bmg with a full metal jacket would be the same performance.

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

I'm somehow thinking the 14.9 will have <span style="font-style: italic">a bit better</span> penetration.

Versus the 750-gr A-Max

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

I put together an image of a loaded round sitting next to a .50 round. I can't post it myself, but would be happy to email it to anyone who wants to see it/post it here.

 

[excaliber]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

cavemanmoore, your pm box is full. I need to ask you something.

Fred C Dobbs, the pic you posted is a loaded 50BMG with 750 Amax. Also another Amax for comparison, the brass bullet is also a .510 diameter bullet that was basically a joke. I know this because my friend made that bullet. So that bullet isn`t for Sao`s rifle.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm somehow thinking the 14.9 will have <span style="font-style: italic">a bit better</span> penetration.

Versus the 750-gr A-Max </div></div>
My God, what rate of twist does that projectile require?

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cavemanmoore, your pm box is full. I need to ask you something.</div></div>

It should work better now.

 

[TwoGun]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

I see the chronograph. Anyone know the velocity?

To get to 6000 yards, all I can imagine is a pencil (or in this case a Mini Sharpie) flying sideways. What's the angle to get it there?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

Hey how come your post says 500 yards, when you can see the dirt flying inside 100, and then on Facebook I found a link to a blog post that said this...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The first weekend of testing is over and we are back from our top secret test location! The gun works! Starting from slow loads at 1500 fps up to 2800 fps. Pictures below of recovered bullet. Video and more pictures coming soon. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Accuracy looks great already, nice round holes of bullet diameter, all with in 2" at aprox 70 yards from a moving platform.</span></div></div>

70 yards is not 500 yards...

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey how come your post says 500 yards, when you can see the dirt flying inside 100, and then on Facebook I found a link to a blog post that said this... <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The first weekend of testing is over and we are back from our top secret test location! The gun works! Starting from slow loads at 1500 fps up to 2800 fps. Pictures below of recovered bullet. Video and more pictures coming soon. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Accuracy looks great already, nice round holes of bullet diameter, all with in 2" at aprox 70 yards from a moving platform.</span></div></div> 70 yards is not 500 yards... </div></div>

I wasn't present for any of the testing and have little involvement with the project other than being a hopeful fan who happens to be an acquaintance of Jon's. I was told they tested stability to 500 yards and in the words of this guy:

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"It's still real to me"

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

Interesting their own blog doesn't represent the same facts and the wording on their blog is similar but states 70 yards... as the video shows. Hard to picture 500 yards when looking at the location in the video.

This is why people have an issue from the beginning, the "official" site contradicts the unofficial word.

I take it by the video you posted, you're saying, that while some people "believe" in Wrestling, the reality is bit farther from the truth, so it even though the shot it at 70 years, if the edit give you 500 yards, it's still real to those who want to believe.

What's a few hundred yards among friends ...

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I take it by the video you posted, you're saying, that while some people "believe" in Wrestling, the reality is bit farther from the truth, so it even though the shot it at 70 years, if the edit give you 500 yards, it's still real to those who want to believe. </div></div>

No, Sir. The wrestling video was my attempt to lighten up what is historically a "tense" subject here on the 'Hide. The message I was trying to convey is that I was not present so I can't give an eyewitness account of the test results. I can only reiterate what I was told. Jon told me they started at 70 yards and worked their way to 500. I believe him. You don't. And I think it's OK to disagree. When I get the opportunity to view testing, I will be sure to invite you along. Seriously. I'll even make the trip over the mountain to pick you up.

Hope the smoke isn't too bad where you are,
-Chris

 

[Augustus]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

Does anyone know the overall length of the projectile. Measurements from the photo indicates it is around 5.5 calibers in length. This is a fairly conservative design when compared to many of the lathe turned solids. If this is in fact the case it should be fairly easy to stabilize but may not be optimized for BC.

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

To me the concept of the rounds seems like taking the proportions similar to that of a 6mmBR and super-sizing it!

 

[Noel Carlson]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

I believe parts of what Jon says.

For example; the reported "SOP" (Schultz, O'Neill, Pienkowski) MV of 2,800 fps on this seven-caliber projectile is much more plausible than the 3,400 fps claimed earlier to have been •measured• on the "OPS" (O'Neill, Pienkowski, Schultz) sometime prior to 12/2/10. The name change apparently made all the difference... for the worse.

Then there is the patently inane claim that the reduced case size of the OPS/SOP (?) increased capacity over the Vulcan by 15 grains water! This is one of the more obvious absurdities, but by no means the only example.

Like I told Jon at SHOT, his barrel can be made to work with an appropriately designed projectile, but not to 5,000 yards supersonic... at least in a monolothic configuration. Judging by his newly revised muzzle velocities, even a good projectile does not have a chance of measuring up against the theatrical hype.

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe parts of what Jon says.

For example; the reported "SOP" (Schultz, O'Neill, Pienkowski) MV of 2,800 fps on this seven-caliber projectile is plausible

Like I told Jon at SHOT, his barrel can be made to work with an appropriately designed projectile, but not to 5,000 yards supersonic... at least in a monolothic configuration.</div></div>

Many of us are interested in this project, not because we believe 5000 meters is, or isn't, possible, but because it pushes the envelope.

I wish you success with your ELR projectiles as well.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

A 100lbs rifle that pushes a bullet 2800fps isn't really pushing the envelope, it's pushing weight limits.

Shoving more powdering into a case isn't ground breaking either... take a practical cartridge and make it better, that pushes envelopes, improving on what is attainable not what is impractical... that pushes limits.

I would also question the, "many of us" comment, "most people" are here for the Nascar Crash factor, and not the envelope pushing possibilities. They wanted to see if it killed someone exploding or if it cracks a shoulder, breaks the skin, not whether or not they can go out and buy it, if that was the case, Anzio would be doing brisk business with their 20mm offering.

http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm

Cause let's face it, we've see this image before...

looks familiar doesn't it...

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you sure Jon wanted this posted on here? </div></div>

Yes. He doesn't mind, at all.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fngmike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just want somebody to cull an elephant with this rifle from about 100 yards and please get it on video </div></div>

I'll bring the camera if you bring the elephant.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My God, what rate of twist does that projectile require? </div></div>

1:13. They were getting 3100 FPS using 550 grains of powder.

 

[Jong]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

So what happened to this experiment?

 

[Noel Carlson]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

Frank asked me the same thing about a week ago, and as I am keeping a close watch on particular aspects of Jon's experiment, there are details that some might find interesting.

Prior to the long line of people recruited by Jon to supply technical information on virtually *all* facets of the project, he relied on a single Mr. "S" (not Schultz). The primary objective of Mr. S was to provide free advice on case design aimed at preventing Mr. O'Neil from injuring himself, or others. Due to perceived character defects of some subsequent participants, Mr. S removed himself from the project altogether. Jon retained the basic dimensions of the original, conservative, case with a the sole addition of a Weatherby-style shoulder.

Mr. S (the "S" in SOP, or OPS... it changes) has speculated openly that the Jon design contribution is the locus of serious problems.

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So what happened to this experiment? </div></div>

I had a few new pictures to post, but Jon asked me not too. I have not asked him for any updates since then, because as Frank indicated earlier, a lot of the folks here who really do shoot XLR/ELR are not interested in the project beyond using new facts verbal target practice or for "the Nascar Crash factor".

The consensus on SH seems to be that if you want to shoot ELR well, buy a good stick in .338 and shoot it as often as possible. If you want to dabble in pushing the envelope, there is enough of controversy regarding the current/upcoming group of .375 caliber projectiles to keep you entertained for a great while.

 

[SavageLapua]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

It's a shame, I'd like to see more... But I respect the decisions made.

 

[Noel Carlson]

Re: Saojao 14.9mm Update

Cavemanmoore,

I am not seeing much controversy over projectiles any longer, and this is because of, not in spite of, the crew at SH. All that is required to dispel a mountain of misinformation is public verification of internet claims. Frank has performed a public service in that arena, and he did it on his dime.

Real envelope-pushing is not a matter of scaling up proven technology. Any idiot can make something bigger.

The real avenues forward come from re-examining fundamental assumptions, and this industry is so content with 100+ year old designs/methods that there is ample room for genuine innovation... which you are more likely to find on this site than anywhere else on the internet.