I am looking for a precision rifle can. I have an AAC Cyclone, but I'd like something lighter. I have narrowed it down to TBAC and SAS and will likely go with a 9" can in either. They seem to be similar cans targeting a similar clientele. Does anybody have experience with both? This'll be used on a 308 and 6.5
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Suppressors SAS Vs TBAC
- Thread starter robpiat
- Start date
Not even close, TBAC is in another league.
MHSA used to be the exclusive distributor for SAS and I proof tested rifles with them prior to delivery. The SAS cans were so inconsistent in their execution I would not own one. And let me say, I have roughly 30 suppressors in my collection. I could have gotten a free SAS can have I asked and routinely turned them down as I saw just how bad they were. It got to be where I could look at them and know which ones would work and which ones would not. It went south when I had them load up a big bag of them to check accuracy and a significant number of them would not hit the target. I had one hit 25ft in front of us, at that point it all changed, MHSA diversified.
if you were going to buy a SAS when they were dumping them below cost, you might have an argument to say, "that is worth it" but really, no. It's like they are made in a garage by whoever he can get on any given day to weld them. In my opinion after seeing so many up close and personal, look elsewhere (TBAC). Personalities being what they are, this has nothing to do with the people but everything to do with end results. Yes, there are some decent ones, but even the good ones would take a 3/8th-inch group and turn them into a 3/4 inch one. The SAS just do this weird spiral pattern to put everything in one hole, but usually a bigger one.
TBAC is the best precision rifle cans on the market, consistently so, precision rifle shooters making precision rifle cans. - You're welcome.
MHSA used to be the exclusive distributor for SAS and I proof tested rifles with them prior to delivery. The SAS cans were so inconsistent in their execution I would not own one. And let me say, I have roughly 30 suppressors in my collection. I could have gotten a free SAS can have I asked and routinely turned them down as I saw just how bad they were. It got to be where I could look at them and know which ones would work and which ones would not. It went south when I had them load up a big bag of them to check accuracy and a significant number of them would not hit the target. I had one hit 25ft in front of us, at that point it all changed, MHSA diversified.
if you were going to buy a SAS when they were dumping them below cost, you might have an argument to say, "that is worth it" but really, no. It's like they are made in a garage by whoever he can get on any given day to weld them. In my opinion after seeing so many up close and personal, look elsewhere (TBAC). Personalities being what they are, this has nothing to do with the people but everything to do with end results. Yes, there are some decent ones, but even the good ones would take a 3/8th-inch group and turn them into a 3/4 inch one. The SAS just do this weird spiral pattern to put everything in one hole, but usually a bigger one.
TBAC is the best precision rifle cans on the market, consistently so, precision rifle shooters making precision rifle cans. - You're welcome.
Same as what Frank said --- I have both, the finish, the sound and the customer service are all superior on TBACs side. I bought my SAS when they were on sale @ MHSA else wouldnt of pulled the trigger. Ray and Zac are awesome folks , they will respond directly to you and are full of no BS - unlike the folks @ SAS. so just go buy the TBAC and dont look back.
I have one of the first stainless SAS suppressors, and 2 guys I know also have very early titanium SAS cans and they are all 3 excellent. They are very repeatable, mine has a little POI shift from can on to can off but it weighs a metric shit ton. All 3 provide excellent accuracy. With that said I have no idea of the quality of anything made in the last several years by SAS, but after what happened to MHSA I would not give a dime for one now. I should upgrade to new technology but it is hard to justify with the results I have out of this old stainless SAS, but at some point I will retire it. My next suppressor will be a TBA no doubt.
I have a AAC 300-TM and a Ultra 9. A buddy of mine has two of the new Arbiter MXs. The SAS cans fit and finish is very close if not the same as my ultra 9, and is quieter than my 300TM. I have yet to shoot my ultra 9 as its been so cold here it's insane. That said what I've noticed is while the SAS is quieter than my 300TM it does have a noticeably greater muzzle signature than the AAC can but that's about it. Accuracy and consistency is the same, something I've always liked about my AAC suppressor is its accuracy and consistency. The weight is close to the same mine being heavier but my can is also almost 3 years old. I did have a look down the bore and from what I've noticed the SAS uses a variation of a K baffle. Didn't know those were used on a .30 can but hey it works. My friend did have the same issues with CS as others have written, and any future precision Ti suppressor purchases he's already going TBAC.
I'm very happy with my SAS cans (SS & TI Arbiter) from the MHSA blowout sale a couple years ago. They shoot nice little groups on every rifle they have been on and 2 have never seen a shot without it on. I suppose now that Lowlight has voiced issues I should probably shoot those rifles loud and see if the groups get larger or smaller and how much POI changes. Repeatability has been perfect shooting with it on, removing, replacing, shooting, repeat. Threads on both cans were to spec, unlike some other brands out there. Maybe I got lucky......
I don't know how a can could be so bad to drop shots or throw shots, as Lowlight stated, without baffle strikes; or maybe that was the problem?
TBAC has the best reviews out there, if you can afford it, buy it. I only bought SAS because of the sale and all the reviews at that time (that I could find) were very positive....then the falling out came to surface, but not for the above mentioned reasons.
I don't know how a can could be so bad to drop shots or throw shots, as Lowlight stated, without baffle strikes; or maybe that was the problem?
TBAC has the best reviews out there, if you can afford it, buy it. I only bought SAS because of the sale and all the reviews at that time (that I could find) were very positive....then the falling out came to surface, but not for the above mentioned reasons.
I have a Ti Reaper I've been using on 5.56-300win for years. I get about an inch of POI shift with it, and 1/2" groups if I do my reloading/shooting part. I also have a SS Reaper from the blowout but I have not shot it yet.
On the TBAC side I have a 338 Ultra. It's a very nice can - the fit and finish are superb. I've only put 50 rounds through it but no issues so far. I hit a headshot on an IPSC target at 616 yards then knocked a 3-4" flapper clean off with the follow up shot.
On the TBAC side I have a 338 Ultra. It's a very nice can - the fit and finish are superb. I've only put 50 rounds through it but no issues so far. I hit a headshot on an IPSC target at 616 yards then knocked a 3-4" flapper clean off with the follow up shot.
I have an SAS Vengeance that I bought during the MHSA blowout with which I've been pretty happy. The external fit and finish draws no objection from me, though I have to admit that I have not really looked at the internals in an effort to determine build quality or anything else.
To date, I have only fired it on two hosts (300 WM, and 338 WM), and have experienced mixed results. On the 300 WM, it shot as well as I can, but on the 338 WM I experienced some pretty egregious scattering. At this point, I am VERY hesitant to blame those groups on the suppressor, as the host its self is far from proven (it is a brand-new build, and the scope rings were found to be... well, perhaps not as tight as they should have been).
That said, I consider the Vengeance to be my "backup" 338 suppressor, with a TBAC Ultra 338 being my primary. The irony is that I have not yet had a chance to shoot my Ultra 338, because I'm in the process of working myself up (as a shooter) to the 338 LM AI for which the Ultra was purchased. I *will* say that between the two suppressors, the Ultra is noticeably lighter and more aesthetically pleasing in its design. In regard to the people behind each product, I have to say that I am hands-down a TBAC fan. Zak and Ray are active on this forum and are both responsive and helpful. The way that the 338 BA recall was handled was absolutely top-notch, IMO, and while I have certainly purchased my last SAS suppressor, I am looking for reasons to buy another TBAC.
To date, I have only fired it on two hosts (300 WM, and 338 WM), and have experienced mixed results. On the 300 WM, it shot as well as I can, but on the 338 WM I experienced some pretty egregious scattering. At this point, I am VERY hesitant to blame those groups on the suppressor, as the host its self is far from proven (it is a brand-new build, and the scope rings were found to be... well, perhaps not as tight as they should have been).
That said, I consider the Vengeance to be my "backup" 338 suppressor, with a TBAC Ultra 338 being my primary. The irony is that I have not yet had a chance to shoot my Ultra 338, because I'm in the process of working myself up (as a shooter) to the 338 LM AI for which the Ultra was purchased. I *will* say that between the two suppressors, the Ultra is noticeably lighter and more aesthetically pleasing in its design. In regard to the people behind each product, I have to say that I am hands-down a TBAC fan. Zak and Ray are active on this forum and are both responsive and helpful. The way that the 338 BA recall was handled was absolutely top-notch, IMO, and while I have certainly purchased my last SAS suppressor, I am looking for reasons to buy another TBAC.
Well, Frank's input notwithstanding, my SAS Ti Arbiter has thousands of rounds down it and contrary to his experience makes my rifle shoot better. That likely has to do with the load I shoot and the harmonics of a can and the extra ~50 fps it lends them, but in any case, my tight loads of before (w/o can) are now often ragged 1-hole groups (when I shoot any groups) at 100 yds. I'm no rabid fanboy, as I also consider the TBACs to be extra nice and will own one someday, but the quality of workmanship on my can is much better than what I've seen on a number of other cans out there (TBAC not included).
Mine is just a sample size of one, so FWIW.
Mine is just a sample size of one, so FWIW.
I’m new to owning and shooting suppressors. I currently have a Crux ARK 30 or 7.5 which is a 30 cal can rated for 300 magnum and full auto, I also have a SAS Arbiter MX and then I’ve got one that I made myself through a form 1 build. The one I made is a little heavier because it’s stainless but has very little POI shift and does almost as good a job at suppressing as well. I personally like the Crux over the Arbiter MX, but the only reason why is because it’s a little bit shorter. As far as accuracy, I haven’t experienced any of the problems that have been stated, none of the cans I have degrade the accuracy and have only a small amount of POI shift. Now with everything that has been said from previous people’s experience, I sure hope that I don’t have any problems with my SAS can.
Sample size of one, so take it for what it's worth. My SAS Barricade is excellent and I'm very happy with it. With that said, I would be equally happy with an Ultra 7. I bought it for a short hunting suppressor and serves that function well.
but now that I've started shooting matches, and see how TBAC supports not only national matches but regional ones as well, I would go TBAC no question. The TBAC guys are very easy to get a hold of here or otherwise. I've got a couple of their cans in jail now.
but now that I've started shooting matches, and see how TBAC supports not only national matches but regional ones as well, I would go TBAC no question. The TBAC guys are very easy to get a hold of here or otherwise. I've got a couple of their cans in jail now.
When I did the research two months ago it was a clear choice to go with TBAC. Adding on that I found a member here selling a free TBAC can cert for $850 and that sealed the deal. Kinda kicking myself though for getting the 6.5 Ultra 9 only because I'm considering getting a 300WM rifle and that caliber would have been covered as well if I had gotten the Ultra 9 in 30 cal.
I must be another one who got a good SAS can, bought a Reaper from MHS during the blowout. At those prices, it was worth a gamble along with TBAC backing them for repairs if needed. It shoots as good as my TBAC and TTF/Crux cans, build quality is on par with those also.
I just noticed Euro optic has SAS cans on sale now..
I just noticed Euro optic has SAS cans on sale now..
I happen to like my SAS Barricade as well. I have had mine close to two years now and switch it back and forth between my 260 and my 223 for Coyotes and have not had any poi changes.
In fact when I save up some more money I will buy another one for my grandson.
In fact when I save up some more money I will buy another one for my grandson.
New to suppressors, but so far TBAC has been really awesome to work with. Very fast responses to newbie questions, chopped and threaded a barreled action for me in 2 days, and the UL7 I have is doing great. By great I mean I am having outstanding accuracy with it on a heavy 6.5 Lapua. And I love the 9 ounce weight. Again, nothing against SAS, but my experience with TBAC is excellent.
I've never dealt with or owned a TBAC, but I have a SAS Reaper. I've been very happy with the suppressor itself and every time I've emailed or called to ask questions the owner has been extremely helpful. I've read stories about poor quality products and bad customer service, but that hasn't been my experience at all. I'm considering purchasing a second rifle can in the future and will probably go with an Arbiter.
That's what was going through my head when I purchased my .30 cal Ultra-9. A hypothetical .300 WM haha. Now hopefully only 6-8 more months until I can go pick it up.
Thankfully I also have a Hybrid in jail that I was planning on using on a MP5 clone. But the clone has since been sold and so I guess the Hybrid will be used on the 300WM.
Just a question : say this please help to understand how Vickers did this with the SAS can.
I have 1 TBAC can, and 1 SAS can i picked up a few years ago, I have no issues with either. They are both so similar i can't tell them a part as far as poi, or accuracy. Never metered them but i can't tell any difference between them either.
And this
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I’ve got 2 TBAC and 4 SAS. I’ve never noticed any difference in accuracy results between them. All of my rifles with the SAS suppressor can produce sub half moa groups, just like they can with the TBAC’s.
Certainly not opposed to adding more TBAC’s to the lineup, but the SAS cans present a considerable value based on what I’ve seen. I haven’t witnessed sporadic groupings when the can was properly secured or shots hitting well low of the target, as mentioned by another poster. My Reaper, barricade and Reaper MX’s typically only have a shift of .05-.2mil at 100yds from non suppressed on my setups.
Certainly not opposed to adding more TBAC’s to the lineup, but the SAS cans present a considerable value based on what I’ve seen. I haven’t witnessed sporadic groupings when the can was properly secured or shots hitting well low of the target, as mentioned by another poster. My Reaper, barricade and Reaper MX’s typically only have a shift of .05-.2mil at 100yds from non suppressed on my setups.
I own 4 TBACs and 2 SAS cans of almost every flavor. I bought the 2 SAS's when Mile High was blowing them out and they were cheap enough to make it worth my while. I bought them both because they are for abusive applications (SBR's) and the price was good enough to where if something happened to them because of that application it wasn't the end of the world. That said, they've both been solid and accurate, however the Customer service and attention to detail on the TBAC's is the biggest reason to go with them. IF you should ever have a problem it WILL be taken care of instead of acting like SAS and bailing on their best dealer and their customers. Hell TBAC stepped up to handle any potential issues with a competitor's product when they bailed on Mile High.
Then there's the precision, I have NEVER had a problem with TBAC can's being inconsistent in any way shape or form, repeatable and accurate, nuff said.
Then there's the precision, I have NEVER had a problem with TBAC can's being inconsistent in any way shape or form, repeatable and accurate, nuff said.
I can tell a slight difference in the tone, but the overall suppression level is similar. Reaper MX vs Ultra 7 is very close. They may meter differently, but it’s tough to hear a significant difference. Obviously an Ultra 9 is going to be quieter than the 6” Barricade, but I have no issue running the Barricade on a 26” 260 or 24” 6 creedmoor with no ear pro.
Regardless of which manufacturer, I’d go with a tomb system. It seems to lock up better, which is beneficial in match situations where itll get hot then cold and you’ll be walking. Gives the can the ability to just barely loosen, which I’ve experienced with DT cans, but not TOMB mounts.
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The SAS claim was 10dB better than an Ultra 7 I've tested a few times now 4-6 louder is more like it.
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I set the rifle up for Vickers and the first SAS suppressor would not work, I had to try 3 to get them to shoot
The first time I zeroed the rifle at 400m (Colorado Rifle Club) it shot 1/2 MOA. I added the first suppressor and it could not hit the paper, the next one only hit 3 out of 10 on paper or something to that effect.
I went back to MHSA and Randy was a bit dismayed, we went to a different range Greenmill with a bag of them and one hit the ground at 25 yards in front of the line.
What you see in the video is not always what is happening behind the scenes.
I set that stuff up ahead of time, had they just handed it to Larry it would have never worked
Frank, I don't like what went down with SAS either but a couple of things.
I haven't heard of any suppressor throwing groups off that badly. Also, surely when adding something new like a new suppressor group sizes and POI changes are to be expected.
Lastly, when one hit the ground 25 yards in front of you there had to have been a baffle strike right? I can't imagine it adding topspin or whatever tot he bullet to that effect!
I haven't heard of any suppressor throwing groups off that badly. Also, surely when adding something new like a new suppressor group sizes and POI changes are to be expected.
Lastly, when one hit the ground 25 yards in front of you there had to have been a baffle strike right? I can't imagine it adding topspin or whatever tot he bullet to that effect!
I guess I've been lucky.... The 4 SAS cans I have all shoot great. The deals were to good to pass up! I'm tempted to grab that EARDOM Mile
High has for sale.
That being said i think my next can will be the Ultra 7 6.5mm. I'm really close to pulling the trigger on one.
High has for sale.
That being said i think my next can will be the Ultra 7 6.5mm. I'm really close to pulling the trigger on one.
Have 5 SAS cans and 2 TBAC's. The SAS mount on TOMB the TBAC's are direct thread on's. All shoot great and do not affect group size. Some POI shift depending on the rifle but both brands are dead nuts repeatable.
Sound reduction is the same as far as I can tell between the Sas arbiter and the TBAC 30-p (not the new Ultras).. I do have a friend that struggled with a SAS QD mount. It Would always loosen and he eventually shot the can down range. SAS replaced the can for him. Would not recommend the SAS QD set up but the SAS TOMB mounts have been rock solid.
Have not needed customer service from either so can't comment.
Sound reduction is the same as far as I can tell between the Sas arbiter and the TBAC 30-p (not the new Ultras).. I do have a friend that struggled with a SAS QD mount. It Would always loosen and he eventually shot the can down range. SAS replaced the can for him. Would not recommend the SAS QD set up but the SAS TOMB mounts have been rock solid.
Have not needed customer service from either so can't comment.
My SAS can has Brennan good thus far. Customer service wasn’t good as well. The finish was scratched Andrew chipped a bit in shipping somehow, I’d guess someone dropped it, but I was told to send it’s back and they refinished it and sent it back. No issues at all.
That being said I may go with a TBAC or looking at the sandman for my next can.
That being said I may go with a TBAC or looking at the sandman for my next can.
Love my SAS Barricade. Great sound on a 6.5 creedmoor, and exceptionally accurate. It lives on my Dasher now and is stupid quiet.
You make VERY bold claims and Ray's video seems to contradict at least one of them. What is your response to that?
I guess the SAS cans I tested were bad ones.I've tested them all. These threads sell more cans for us than anything. Why has there never been a response to that video I posted above? Just look at the weld quality and lack of deburring in those cans besides the fact they are louder with a wicked FRP. Its OK you can still buy an Ultra if you want the best precision can out there. The Ultras weigh less, meter better and are way stronger. Explain to me how that's inferior.
Marketing isn't why we are successful. Superior products are why we are successful. Its not about FaceBook likes or followers on Instagram. Its making a bad ass product and standing behind it.
SAS and their reps post bullshit numbers that industry people call bullshit on and then never post anything to back up their claims. They only sell to the uninformed that they can get away with their lies with. Feel free to call me to discuss. Call the shop and ask for me and they will send you to my cell where ever I am. I've metered their 7" 6.5 can on a 6.5 CM and our Ultra 7 30 cal was was quiter. I didn't even have to bust out the 6.5 Ultra. Stop posting bullshit. But thanks for bringing this back to the top for all the new people to see. Lots of people that call the shop reference this post. You guys shoot yourselves in the foot so much. SAS cans are so poorly made I'm surprised they are still in business. Here is a little hint.
When you see white powdery shit or rainbow colors on Ti welds.Thats very bad. Borescopes show the stuff the paint hides. Thanks for the business.
Marketing isn't why we are successful. Superior products are why we are successful. Its not about FaceBook likes or followers on Instagram. Its making a bad ass product and standing behind it.
SAS and their reps post bullshit numbers that industry people call bullshit on and then never post anything to back up their claims. They only sell to the uninformed that they can get away with their lies with. Feel free to call me to discuss. Call the shop and ask for me and they will send you to my cell where ever I am. I've metered their 7" 6.5 can on a 6.5 CM and our Ultra 7 30 cal was was quiter. I didn't even have to bust out the 6.5 Ultra. Stop posting bullshit. But thanks for bringing this back to the top for all the new people to see. Lots of people that call the shop reference this post. You guys shoot yourselves in the foot so much. SAS cans are so poorly made I'm surprised they are still in business. Here is a little hint.
When you see white powdery shit or rainbow colors on Ti welds.Thats very bad. Borescopes show the stuff the paint hides. Thanks for the business.
I use an Ultra 7 6.5 on my 6 creed in competitions...
I am continually asked what can I'm running because it's so quiet. It has been a fantastic can from day one.
The other can I own and am extremely impressed with is a Dead Air Sandman Ti. Extremely quiet and accurate.
Because of the weight and length, I believe the TBAC Ultra line is one of the most/ if not only cans good enough for serious competition.
Now, if I could just get hooked up with an Ultra 5.....
I am continually asked what can I'm running because it's so quiet. It has been a fantastic can from day one.
The other can I own and am extremely impressed with is a Dead Air Sandman Ti. Extremely quiet and accurate.
Because of the weight and length, I believe the TBAC Ultra line is one of the most/ if not only cans good enough for serious competition.
Now, if I could just get hooked up with an Ultra 5.....
I rarely, if ever, see TBAC marketing. And when TBAC does engage in "marketing," it is usually via awesome videos like Ray posted above which provide real data and apples to apples comparisons of metered output. Most of TBAC's marketing is conducted by elated customers who love their cans and tell their friends about them.
What I HAVE personally experienced with TBAC is flawless products of superior quality and design, customer service that makes me feel like a partner to their enterprise, as well as a complete lack of bull shit in any and all dealings. For a product already shrouded by NFA bull shit, I can't emphasize the importance of that last point enough.
Although I've enjoyed suppressors for a long time I had a three year period where I bought a lot of cans looking for best performance on a variety of platforms. Having more than a few dozen I probably only made one real mistake and it will surprise no one that some are better than others. As for value I don't understand the quibbling over differences of a few hundred dollars given the wait time and longevity of a well made can. Since it was brought up in this thread I'll mention the SAS Barricade. I bought one when they first came out and a Hide vendor had them at a killer price. Having run one side by side with the Ultra 7 for many thousands of rounds, get the Ultra 7.
In my experience, and at any price, the TBAC Ultra series is the hands down a superior suppressor to any of its competitors. Equally important to me is TBAC as a company and their support in this community. As for TBAC marketing, outside of Ray's videos I am only aware of guys like me who open up our wallets to buy equipment and report back.
In my experience, and at any price, the TBAC Ultra series is the hands down a superior suppressor to any of its competitors. Equally important to me is TBAC as a company and their support in this community. As for TBAC marketing, outside of Ray's videos I am only aware of guys like me who open up our wallets to buy equipment and report back.
Same old shit .Makes a bold claim with no way to back it up and then crickets no phone call and no response on here. Funny how that works huh?
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