SAUM help choosing.

[Dildobaggins]

I posted this on another forum but didn't get many replies. I've always wanted a SAUM. The purpose would be for a lite weight hunting rig for whitetail, and perhaps a black bear if one presented itself in my area. Also, the occasional bench session with no rapid firing. Max shots would be around 5-600 yards.
I realize there are a truckload of cartridges that can accomplish this that are more efficient, but like I said I always wanted a SAUM, and I have a new short action kelbly that I was going to use with UM bottom metal and XL mags.

i'm up in the air between a 25, 6.5 or 7 SAUM . I don't really want to go super heavy in a 7 Saum with the 180. I was thinking more like 140-168 with a 7, but that go me thinking that a 140gr in a 6.5 would be better due to the higher BC. Also, shooting a 25 with the 130 class bergers would be the flattest shooting from just punching in numbers.

What cal. do you think would have the best brass life and barrel life of these. Id like to get over 3,000fps with whatever I choose with a 22-24 inch barrel.

 

[Budrichard]

I have a rem 300 SAUM Custom Shop AWR rifle.
It is bulit on the Rem Model 7 action.
It wears a Leupold 2-7 scope.
It is literally brutal to shoot.
Sighting the rig in took about 7 shots.
At that time my right arm was very bruised.
It was purchased for Black Bear hunts.
It is overkill for whitetail.
I use a Rem Model 7 SS in 7mm-08 with the same scope for whitetail.
Much better rifle but not enough for Black Bear where I did not put one down but found it 12 hours later with a Nosler imbedded in the off side shoulder without breaking the shoulder.
-Richard

 

[264win]

If lightweight is the focus go for the 6.5 and add a can or brake.

 

[SupersonicJ]

I recently sold my 7 SAUM and I love the cartridge. It was my first magnum and was a bit worried about the recoil, but turns out it was a sweetheart to shoot. I have shot 50rds in a range session and recoil was super manageable. I have shot 180 hybrids at 2950fps and 162 ELDM at 3030fps. Rifle weighed a total of 14lbs and had a 26” barrel. Sold it because I’m building a 30 Sherman.

 

[waveslayer]

If you want that velocity you should look at the 6.5 using 130-140 grain VLD's. I'm getting 3310 out of my 130's in a 24" barrel. I get over 3000 with another barrel using the 153.5 grain Bergers. I haven't shot the 7 SAUM but love my 6.5 SAUM. Brass life will depend on brass and how hot you run them. I was getting 6-8 firings, I reduced my loads to around 3170 and get 2-3 more firings.

 

[M260]

The 6.5 is a delight especially with a can or brake. I have a carbon fiber barrel that with the right brake and chassis setup has almost negative recoil, also a 26" steel barrel that easily runs over 3000fps it amazes me every time I shoot it.

 

[Dildobaggins]

The 6.5 is a delight especially with a can or brake. I have a carbon fiber barrel that with the right brake and chassis setup has almost negative recoil, also a 26" steel barrel that easily runs over 3000fps it amazes me every time I shoot it.

Nice! I plan on using a brake. Probably have the whole set up scoped at around 9lbs. Used a recoil calculator, but don't know how much a brake would shave off.

 

[psharon78]

I'm looking at eventually building a 7mm sherman short mag

 

[cooper_257]

I have a couple 6.5 SAUM's wit 24" barrels and run the 143 eldx for hunting at 3075fps. I have killed multiple deer and elk with this setup. the furthest was a cow elk at 987 yards. she went 25 yards and was dead. I have also killed a couple bucks with a 135gr JLK going 3140fps. I love the 6.5 SAUM for hunting. it kills great, low recoil and my kids can hunt with it no problem. I run H1000 and the barrel lif is great with that powder at those velocities. Even on a match rifle with longer strings I still got over 2400 round of barrel life before I set the barrel back. The buck in the picture he shot with a 143 eldx at 597 yards.

 

[jbuck88]

I have a rem 300 SAUM Custom Shop AWR rifle.
It is bulit on the Rem Model 7 action.
It wears a Leupold 2-7 scope.
It is literally brutal to shoot.
Sighting the rig in took about 7 shots.
At that time my right arm was very bruised.
It was purchased for Black Bear hunts.
It is overkill for whitetail.
I use a Rem Model 7 SS in 7mm-08 with the same scope for whitetail.
Much better rifle but not enough for Black Bear where I did not put one down but found it 12 hours later with a Nosler imbedded in the off side shoulder without breaking the shoulder.
-Richard

Nonsense. All you need is a 223 for anything. Just go over to rokslide and read about all the people who swear by it. (Heavy sarcasm font)

Completely agree with you and poking fun at the roksliders.

 

[Dildobaggins]

I have a couple 6.5 SAUM's wit 24" barrels and run the 143 eldx for hunting at 3075fps. I have killed multiple deer and elk with this setup. the furthest was a cow elk at 987 yards. she went 25 yards and was dead. I have also killed a couple bucks with a 135gr JLK going 3140fps. I love the 6.5 SAUM for hunting. it kills great, low recoil and my kids can hunt with it no problem. I run H1000 and the barrel lif is great with that powder at those velocities. Even on a match rifle with longer strings I still got over 2400 round of barrel life before I set the barrel back. The buck in the picture he shot with a 143 eldx at 597 yards.

Wow that's a beauty! Are you looking for anymore children to hunt where you are? Haha

 

[LRRPF52]

I did a private Long Range course for a guy who drew a limited bull elk tag, spent several days with him at my favorite range complex working out zero, effective range, and shooting with his hit % on 12” plates from field positions commonly encountered here in the mountains.

He brought a 6.5 PRC custom rig with Ti action and CF stock, as well as a Fierce 300 PRC.

The 6.5 PRC was shockingly-recoilless for how light it was. He had very large, high magnification glass on both rifles, and the 6.5 was still very light and super-pleasant to shoot. It had a Q Cherry Bomb on it, which I didn’t think was that effective, but it just didn’t move.

That rifle had less recoil than any .260 or 6.5CM I’ve ever shot, and I’ve been shooting various types of them since the 2000s. Most of them have weighed twice as much as that rifle or more.

Anyway, he used the 300 PRC to fill his tag on Day 1 at around 800yds, under extreme pressure from the guides, who just wanted him to tag-out so they could move to the next client. We had determined that his maximum ethical engagement distance in full value wind at 7-10mph was 600yds, and he told the guides this, but they didn’t care. They were practically yelling at him to shoot.

 

[stratton2885]

It's a great deer round.
6.5 SAUM
Kelblys short action Atlas tactical
GRS stock
Proof Carbon barrel
Piercision Brake
Kelbly DBM

 

[st1650]

7 Saum, 145 LRX.

 

[Chickentoast]

I have 2 6.5 Max (SAUM improved) - one in a chassis and one as a light carbon hunter. The light hunting rifle recoil is on par with a similar weight 308 running 155's. In fact, I have a 308 barrel for the same rifle, and with 208's @ 2640, it kicks more than the 6.5 with 153.5's, running 3170. However, the only reason to go 6.5 is for the extended range - with Badlands 135 solids, it's supersonic out to ~2K. For only 600 yards in a SAUM hunter, I'd do a 300 or even a 338. But a 308 would be more than adequate for your intended purpose.

 

[Simonsza1]

I was the same as you. I wanted to build a sweet 7mm so bad and was dead set on a saum. Then I found out about the Sherman, did lots of comparative research and went with the 7ss instead of the saum. Very happy I did. My Sherman is an amazing rifle. Very little recoil and sending 175eldx at 2,950 and I’m not loading even close to hot. Runs like butter in a short action with room to spare. One of my main deciding factors was if I was going to reload anyway why not go for the better cartridge especially in an SA. Enjoy whatever you build though and I look forward to hearing what you settle on.

 

[Scotch_egg]

The SAUM is so underrated. Although with 180’s at 2950 from my 26” barrel I feel the recoil. It’s silenced as well before anyone questions it. Whether I’m just recoil shy from shooting 6mmbr and 6.5’s for so long is anyone’s guess! But put a 162 through the 7mm SAUM and it’s a pussycat. The 180gr ElD-M ballistics are hard to beat and the reason I don’t run 162’s all day long. I’ve got both 6.5 and 7mm carbon bartlein carbon blanks ready for the rebarrel. I just can’t decide which so I’ll get both done. Brass was the issue for the 7mm SAUM but Adg seem to have sorted that. However if I was just shooting 600 yards I would stick with the 6.5 either a PRC or SAUM. Even black bear aren’t armour plated and the right bullet will punch through the vitals.

 

[st1650]

The SAUM is so underrated. Although with 180’s at 2950 from my 26” barrel I feel the recoil. It’s silenced as well before anyone questions it. Whether I’m just recoil shy from shooting 6mmbr and 6.5’s for so long is anyone’s guess! But put a 162 through the 7mm SAUM and it’s a pussycat. The 180gr ElD-M ballistics are hard to beat and the reason I don’t run 162’s all day long. I’ve got both 6.5 and 7mm carbon bartlein carbon blanks ready for the rebarrel. I just can’t decide which so I’ll get both done. Brass was the issue for the 7mm SAUM but Adg seem to have sorted that. However if I was just shooting 600 yards I would stick with the 6.5 either a PRC or SAUM. Even black bear aren’t armour plated and the right bullet will punch through the vitals.

Black bears are way easier to kill than what most people think. My last one this fall was with a 145 LRX
I also love the 162 eldm and 166 atips. They're 1/4 moa loads at 2.95in

 

[steve123]

I did 30-375R, 7mmRM, and then 6.5 Saum. Mine is a 23 pound Surgeon XL with a 29" Bartlein barrel of 9 twist. A medium load of 140 hybrids at 3340 fps is amazing for long range. A 19x21 plate at 1143Y is easy and I got at least two hits, maybe 3(one might of bounced in), out of four shots at 1987Y on a 18" square plate.
Felt recoil in my gun is only slightly more than my 16 pound 6mmBR.
I'll do another when this barrel goes.

 

[st1650]

Just curious why go 6.5 Saum when Lapua has PRC brass ?

 

[Dildobaggins]

Just curious why go 6.5 Saum when Lapua has PRC brass ?

Well, I'd rather have a SAUM. However, to answer the question. Whether or not I have lapua brass does not shake me anymore. I waited nearly 7 months for Lapua 6BR brass to come out and while I waited I used Peterson. I've also used Peterson in 30BR with same great results. Lapua isn't the only game in town and I'd rather go e my money to American companies and not be pigeon held to one companies products who discontinue brass at their will. E.I 222rem, 220 russian, and many others. Sadly, I'm pretty much done with Lapua at this point.

 

[steve123]

Just curious why go 6.5 Saum when Lapua has PRC brass ?

When I had mine built PRC wasn't a thing yet.

Same for my 30-375R so I used 375R brass necked down and turned. My wildcat is close to 300 PRC.

 

[HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur]

Based on use case and component availability, I’d go 6.5

 

[Sundy]

I've got a 300 SAUM and my brother rocks the 7 SAUM. Both are excellent guns but the 300 bucks a bit more.

Mine is in a model 7 and factory stock (I can't find a chassis) but it just got back from the gunsmith on getting threaded to run a brake - hoping it's a more enjoyable gun to shoot. It weights in at 7lbs13oz so it's light.

Both our SAUMs have dropped plenty of deer in their tracks and my 300 is also my elk rifle.

 

[Scotch_egg]

I've got a 300 SAUM and my brother rocks the 7 SAUM. Both are excellent guns but the 300 bucks a bit more.

Mine is in a model 7 and factory stock (I can't find a chassis) but it just got back from the gunsmith on getting threaded to run a brake - hoping it's a more enjoyable gun to shoot. It weights in at 7lbs13oz so it's light.

Both our SAUMs have dropped plenty of deer in their tracks and my 300 is also my elk rifle.

What bullet are you running to buck the wind more than the 7mm?

 

[Sundy]

What bullet are you running to buck the wind more than the 7mm?

It likely isn't bucking the wind better, I've just really liked the 300 for hunting.

Most of my shooting with it was before I got into longer range shooting and reloading. Shot a lot of Remington core lokt and it was plenty accurate for hunting (150g pushing 3250 and 180g loads just over 3k).

Next up I was going to work a load up with 210g accubond LR. Won't get the 3k fps OP was looking for, but ties in nice with a powerful and lightweight hunting rifle.

 

[YBPS]

25 SAUM with 133 Bergers and h1000. Just neck down 6.5 brass and shoot.

 

[NewsShooter]

I did a private Long Range course for a guy who drew a limited bull elk tag, spent several days with him at my favorite range complex working out zero, effective range, and shooting with his hit % on 12” plates from field positions commonly encountered here in the mountains.

He brought a 6.5 PRC custom rig with Ti action and CF stock, as well as a Fierce 300 PRC.

The 6.5 PRC was shockingly-recoilless for how light it was. He had very large, high magnification glass on both rifles, and the 6.5 was still very light and super-pleasant to shoot. It had a Q Cherry Bomb on it, which I didn’t think was that effective, but it just didn’t move.

That rifle had less recoil than any .260 or 6.5CM I’ve ever shot, and I’ve been shooting various types of them since the 2000s. Most of them have weighed twice as much as that rifle or more.

Anyway, he used the 300 PRC to fill his tag on Day 1 at around 800yds, under extreme pressure from the guides, who just wanted him to tag-out so they could move to the next client. We had determined that his maximum ethical engagement distance in full value wind at 7-10mph was 600yds, and he told the guides this, but they didn’t care. They were practically yelling at him to shoot.

Had a guide to that to me on a pig hunt, crown of a hill and I didn't know what was behind it. Kept telling me to take the shot, might not get another one. There were some ranch houses nearby. So I shot in front of it in the dirt and it ran off. They knew I shot long range matches so he immediately called his buddy that was in charge of the operation, telling him I missed a 100 yard shot. My buddy who was with the guy at the time told him I probably could have hit it with my bow. . Bout a half hour later we see a bunch of pigs feeding across a small canyon. They're about 350 yards, I set up on some rocks and get comfortable, pick my target and the "guide" lays down near my muzzle. I tell him he needs to move and he says he's fine there. I tell him he should move a couple more times and he doesn't want to move. Dial the dope for the distance and hit the pig, 6.5 CM with 143's. Pig rolls down hill and stands up so I shoot it again. "guide" starts screaming for me to stop shooting. Guessing the blast from the muzzle break surprised him. My 7 saum is easy to shoot, 6.5 PRC isn't much different than shooting my 6.5 CM, 11 lb rifle.

 

[LRRPF52]

Reminds me of when I was doing final QC and accuracy testing for a high-end rifle manufacturer back in the late 2000s.

I would roll up to the range with a truckload of these bolt guns, ranging from .308 to .338 LM, and all the .338 LMs were braked with huge gill brakes similar to an AI.

Dudes would come set up on the bench next to me and I would say, “I’m a friendly type of guy, but I think you’ll want to move because these brakes are freakin’ loud man. They are not fun to be near, I promise."

Them: “No, I’ll be fine."

Me: “No, I really mean it. It sucks being near this due to how brutal the muzzle blast is."

Them: “I’ll be ok, it’s alright."

They go downrange into the pits from the side access (no need to shut down on that range). They come back after I’m already set-up and getting ready to shoot, then start opening their rifle cases, getting things ready....

SKUH-DOOOOOOZZZSHHHH!!!!!!!!!

“Holy crap man! That thing is loud!” They packed up their stuff and moved. This would happen at least 2x every week. The huge steel beam posts holding up the roof would always have residual resonant harmonics vibrating in them after every shot of .338 LM.

I would have cases of that ammo stacked behind me testing those rifles. They couldn’t ship without a 1/2 MOA group shot at 100yds, and I had 10-14 rifles to go through. Everything was shot with an S&B PMII 5-25x56 as well. That scope got used like a rented mule until I finally broke it. Side Focus died.

 

[LRRPF52]

I love hearing 195gr EOLs hitting steel at 800-1400yds BTW.

Of all the magnums, I really have a thing for 7mm.

 

[Jeff Karrels]

I have 2 6.5 Max (SAUM improved) - one in a chassis and one as a light carbon hunter. The light hunting rifle recoil is on par with a similar weight 308 running 155's. In fact, I have a 308 barrel for the same rifle, and with 208's @ 2640, it kicks more than the 6.5 with 153.5's, running 3170. However, the only reason to go 6.5 is for the extended range - with Badlands 135 solids, it's supersonic out to ~2K. For only 600 yards in a SAUM hunter, I'd do a 300 or even a 338. But a 308 would be more than adequate for your intended purpose.

@Chickentoast what barrel length are you running your 6.5 Maxs in? What are you seeing on 140,156 for velocity?

 

[Chickentoast]

@Chickentoast what barrel length are you running your 6.5 Maxs in? What are you seeing on 140,156 for velocity?

I have 28" Bartlein on the Chassis and 26" Carbon6 on the hunter. Numbers for the chassis rifle: Light range load 63 grains N570 gives me 3100 with 145 MB's. I believe I was @ 3300 with 67 grains on the Berger 153.5's and then around 3550 with Badlands 135 solids but don't remember the charge - highest node. Those are the only 3 projectiles I'm running.

 

[Jeff Karrels]

Thanks. Solid numbers!

 

[jmw]

Well, I'd rather have a SAUM. However, to answer the question. Whether or not I have lapua brass does not shake me anymore. I waited nearly 7 months for Lapua 6BR brass to come out and while I waited I used Peterson. I've also used Peterson in 30BR with same great results. Lapua isn't the only game in town and I'd rather go e my money to American companies and not be pigeon held to one companies products who discontinue brass at their will. E.I 222rem, 220 russian, and many others. Sadly, I'm pretty much done with Lapua at this point.

I agree no need to worry about lapua brass. adg saum brass has been great. Lots of good brass options for all cartridges these days

 

[Kickin45]

6.8 Western

 

[jmw]

6 saum. Run a 90 grain sierra game changer @3700-3800 fps
.4 mill @ 300
1.8 mill @ 600

 

[Simonsza1]

6 saum. Run a 90 grain sierra game changer @3700-3800 fps
.3 mill @ 300
1.5 mill @ 600

 

[jmw]

I typed that wrong, actually
.4 @ 300
1.8 @ 600

 

[JR1200W3]

6 saum. Run a 90 grain sierra game changer @3700-3800 fps
.4 mill @ 300
1.8 mill @ 600

I was blowing up 90gr TGK's in whitetail with a 6 Creed going 3050fps. Those bullets going 3700 have to be essentially unusable

 

[steve123]

I was blowing up 90gr TGK's in whitetail with a 6 Creed going 3050fps. Those bullets going 3700 have to be essentially unusable

There was a guy here on SH that built a 22 Saum. He used a slower twist barrel with the plan of using IIRC 69-77 grainers around 4000 fps??. I doubt the throat hung in there very long but in the meantime he had successful long range videos thwacking wood chucks.

I'm guessing JMW also has a slower twist like a 10 or so??

I had a 20x47L that lasted 300 rounds before 55gr Bergers were blowing up at 3830 fps. Mine was a 9 twist and probably should have done a 10 twist for this project.

 

[JR1200W3]

There was a guy here on SH that built a 22 Saum. He used a slower twist barrel with the plan of using IIRC 69-77 grainers around 4000 fps??. I doubt the throat hung in there very long but in the meantime he had successful long range videos thwacking wood chucks.

I'm guessing JMW also has a slower twist like a 10 or so??

I had a 20x47L that lasted 300 rounds before 55gr Bergers were blowing up at 3830 fps. Mine was a 9 twist and probably should have done a 10 twist for this project.

I'm talking about when the bullet hits a fairly light skinned animal. Assuming they don't blow up in flight, they're grenades on impact. And very potentially in a counter productive way. Hard to make a bullet that expands well in smaller cartridges like 6 ARC up through 6 Creed, and still in a semi controlled manner in rocket ship territory like 3700fps.

 

[steve123]

I'm talking about when the bullet hits a fairly light skinned animal. Assuming they don't blow up in flight, they're grenades on impact. And very potentially in a counter productive way. Hard to make a bullet that expands well in smaller cartridges like 6 ARC up through 6 Creed, and still in a semi controlled manner in rocket ship territory like 3700fps.

I imagine so.

 

[Chickentoast]

Cup and core RPM's 300-320K generally. Be twisted fast enough to run solids and slow enough not to blow up projectiles. My 6.5 max's are 7.5 twist. I can blow up the 145 MB's if I hot rod them, but are great at 3100. The 153.5's I can go higher node @3300 without issue, and have enough twist to run the 135 Badlands. Expect a regular 6.5 SAUM would be fine running the high node on 145's as well, and be ~150 fps slower on the 153.5's. Very versatile in 7.5 twist.

 

[jmw]

9 twist barrel for 6 saum or 6prc with the 90ish grain bullets at those velocities. They Destroy coyotes, and other varmints. They are not for everyone as barrel life is short, but barrels are consumables. Never shot a deer with that, maybe I will this fall and see. My grandson has shot many deer with 6 creed and 70 grain nosler ballistic tips, never any problem. I use the 87 grain Berger in 6 creed for everything up to and including deer.

 

[JR1200W3]

9 twist barrel for 6 saum or 6prc with the 90ish grain bullets at those velocities. They Destroy coyotes, and other varmints. They are not for everyone as barrel life is short, but barrels are consumables. Never shot a deer with that, maybe I will this fall and see. My grandson has shot many deer with 6 creed and 70 grain nosler ballistic tips, never any problem. I use the 87 grain Berger in 6 creed for everything up to and including deer.

I shot a whitetail with a 90 grain TGK going about 3050 at 40yds. Hit it just behind the shoulder. Exactly where you would want to. The bullet hit a rib and blew a silver dollar size hole. The doe put her head down and picked up her pace and I shot her again and knocked her over. When I hung her up, you could see the heart through the hole. The outside surface of the heart was frayed but there was no puncture. However, the explosion ruined about half of the shoulder. As if that bullet blowing up had a minimum safe distance or kill radius. Ruined meat when it should've been a perfect heart shot.

I shot three more deer that same season with the same rifle and load. They were all headshots. One particular deer I shot at about 80 yd away right between the eyes. When I went down to check it out there was gray matter spread in a v-shape 20 yd behind the deer. And in tree branches 15 ft up there was gray and pink goo dripping off the branches. I reberreled that gun to a 6.5 Creedmoor the following year

 

[jmw]

I should not have mentioned 6 saum here as the op was talking about deer, it is absolutely devastating on coyotes, but that is for another discussion. I can highly recommend 6.5 saum for deer, 140 Berger at 3150 is hard to beat, excellent cartridge

 

[wind gypsy]

Had a couple 6.5 saums and still have a 7 saum. I’d probably do a 25-6.5 PRC before any of them these days but a 25 SAUM sounds cool too. Those 130 class 25s would be lasers.

 

[Chickentoast]

Had a couple 6.5 saums and still have a 7 saum. I’d probably do a 25-6.5 PRC before any of them these days but a 25 SAUM sounds cool too. Those 130 class 25s would be lasers.

Heaviest 6.5's still have best BC, but I'm definitely a fan of the 25's because you can run them out of a true short action without neutering it. 25 SST as another magnum bolt option, or even just a straight 25 creed for a std bolt.

 

[wind gypsy]

Heaviest 6.5's still have best BC, but I'm definitely a fan of the 25's because you can run them out of a true short action without neutering it. 25 SST as another magnum bolt option, or even just a straight 25 creed for a std bolt.

Yeah but the heavy 6.5s come with a recoil and velocity penalty. The 130 class .257 pills are pretty dang slick for the weight. Without a brake im lousy at spotting shots with lightweight 6.5s so I’ll take all the help I can get. Brakes suck but especially so on hunting rifles.

 

[Chickentoast]

Yeah but the heavy 6.5s come with a recoil and velocity penalty. The 130 class .257 pills are pretty dang slick for the weight. Without a brake im lousy at spotting shots with lightweight 6.5s so I’ll take all the help I can get. Brakes suck but especially so on hunting rifles.

Badlands 135 gr 6.5mm have a G7 of .358. The 25 cal Berger 135's are .334 G7. Berger 153.5's are .356. I didn't know Badlands went out of business - I have half a dozen boxes of them left. Hopefully some new 6.5 solids come out that are even better.