I have a Savage 10fp with a B&C stock. It was a used stock and it is not an ideal fit. The barrel nut hits, trigger parts and rear tang also hit. It action rocks when sitting in the stock so I plan I getting it bedded. Previous owner took out to much out of places and not enough in others. The gunsmith said he wants to bed around the rear tang to alleviate this and I told him it isn't recommended. Of course, he is a gunsmith and disagreed with me telling me it doesn't matter. I want to know what actually happens when it is bedded. Has anyone ever bedded the tang of a Savage?
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Gunsmithing Savage floating rear tang
- Thread starter anthonylapoint
- Start date
Re: Savage floating rear tang
the main reason not to bed a Savage tang is that the rear of the action has no screw... since the action screws are front and center on the action, a bedded tang CAN distort the action... it won't always, but it can... I've gotten them done both ways and someone who knows what they're doing can bed the rear tang and it still shoot.. that being said, I personally don't generally bed the tamg on a Savage, but if I saw your stock I might agree w/ your smith.
the main reason not to bed a Savage tang is that the rear of the action has no screw... since the action screws are front and center on the action, a bedded tang CAN distort the action... it won't always, but it can... I've gotten them done both ways and someone who knows what they're doing can bed the rear tang and it still shoot.. that being said, I personally don't generally bed the tamg on a Savage, but if I saw your stock I might agree w/ your smith.
Re: Savage floating rear tang
I've heard of it being done with no adverse effects, but no positive ones either.
The greatest benefit to a Savage is not having to go to a smith for everything. Bed it yourself. Even I've done it and no one died in the process. The worst you can do is screw it all up.
I've heard of it being done with no adverse effects, but no positive ones either.
The greatest benefit to a Savage is not having to go to a smith for everything. Bed it yourself. Even I've done it and no one died in the process. The worst you can do is screw it all up.
Re: Savage floating rear tang
How does it shoot right now?
I've got a 12FV with factory 223 barrel in a BC A2 Medalist, the rear tang is not 100% floated, and it shoots 5 shot 0.4" @ 100yd groups.
How does it shoot right now?
I've got a 12FV with factory 223 barrel in a BC A2 Medalist, the rear tang is not 100% floated, and it shoots 5 shot 0.4" @ 100yd groups.
Re: Savage floating rear tang
The key to bedding the rear tang is that it is completely even and stress free. If you pillar bed and bed the tang at the same time it should be ok.
Where some people go wrong is lowering the two screw contact points but not the tang contact point. So when they tighten the action screws the tang binds while the action gets pulled down into the bedding.
The key to bedding the rear tang is that it is completely even and stress free. If you pillar bed and bed the tang at the same time it should be ok.
Where some people go wrong is lowering the two screw contact points but not the tang contact point. So when they tighten the action screws the tang binds while the action gets pulled down into the bedding.
Re: Savage floating rear tang
+1 to Stockdoc...
What I have done is place something like .010" tape on the tang and bed it. After curing, remove the tape and it allows the tang to float. I only bed under it if there is material missing or I need to build up the stock some in that area in order to sand and blend the stock for better aesthetics. YMMV...
John
+1 to Stockdoc...
What I have done is place something like .010" tape on the tang and bed it. After curing, remove the tape and it allows the tang to float. I only bed under it if there is material missing or I need to build up the stock some in that area in order to sand and blend the stock for better aesthetics. YMMV...
John
Re: Savage floating rear tang
Just finished a bedding project on a Savage this morning. I did not bed the tang, which is now free-floated *just* above the stock. Force_Multiplier and stockdoc are both right on cue with the reasoning behind it. When the bedding compound cures, I'll take some pictures and post them.
Just finished a bedding project on a Savage this morning. I did not bed the tang, which is now free-floated *just* above the stock. Force_Multiplier and stockdoc are both right on cue with the reasoning behind it. When the bedding compound cures, I'll take some pictures and post them.
Re: Savage floating rear tang
I have not shot it yet due to action screws being the wrong length. The previous dremel job behind the tang looks god awful but I dremeled a very tiny amount on the sides and the tang now floats fine I think. The thing I'm worried about is that the action rocks a bit but the forward action screw applied it doesn't. The rear tang now sits below the stock. It really is more for looks in the rear but I want the rifle to shoot consistent and I'm bedding it anyway. I'm not good at bedding, already messed up a choate stock. I'll leave it for someone who's good at it
I have not shot it yet due to action screws being the wrong length. The previous dremel job behind the tang looks god awful but I dremeled a very tiny amount on the sides and the tang now floats fine I think. The thing I'm worried about is that the action rocks a bit but the forward action screw applied it doesn't. The rear tang now sits below the stock. It really is more for looks in the rear but I want the rifle to shoot consistent and I'm bedding it anyway. I'm not good at bedding, already messed up a choate stock. I'll leave it for someone who's good at it
Re: Savage floating rear tang
if the stock is bedded <span style="text-decoration: underline">properly</span> then it will be stress free reguardless if the tang is bedded or not.
I personaly prefer the bedded tang as it doesnt leave a gap for crap to get into the trigger area and just looks better
if the stock is bedded <span style="text-decoration: underline">properly</span> then it will be stress free reguardless if the tang is bedded or not.
I personaly prefer the bedded tang as it doesnt leave a gap for crap to get into the trigger area and just looks better
Re: Savage floating rear tang
How can you tell if the tang is stressed or not stressed though. Aside from bad groups is there any other problems that could form do to a streesed tang?
How can you tell if the tang is stressed or not stressed though. Aside from bad groups is there any other problems that could form do to a streesed tang?
Re: Savage floating rear tang
Flyboy, I'd like to see the pictures when it's finished. Also, are you a pilot or is flyboy just how you shoot. Kidding. I'm actually a helicopter pilot so I was curious
Flyboy, I'd like to see the pictures when it's finished. Also, are you a pilot or is flyboy just how you shoot. Kidding. I'm actually a helicopter pilot so I was curious
Re: Savage floating rear tang
I personally wouldn't mess with it, but I agree that if it is done properly then it shouldn't be a problem. The safety mechanism is also back there which can complicate things slightly, but nothing that some extra material removal can't fix. Every Savage I've ever owned has rocked forward (due to barrel weight and large gaps in front of the lug I think), but bedding them will eliminate/reduce the amount of rocking. I've never owned one that rocks back and forth though, if that is what you're saying. I've never done a pillar bed job, but a skim bed (over and aluminum chassis/block) is simple I think. I did my first one following the sticky posted at the top and it went very well really. The rifle was more consistent, not sure it really improved the accuracy, but the action was making complete contact with the bedding block for the whole length of both. Good luck with your decision.
I personally wouldn't mess with it, but I agree that if it is done properly then it shouldn't be a problem. The safety mechanism is also back there which can complicate things slightly, but nothing that some extra material removal can't fix. Every Savage I've ever owned has rocked forward (due to barrel weight and large gaps in front of the lug I think), but bedding them will eliminate/reduce the amount of rocking. I've never owned one that rocks back and forth though, if that is what you're saying. I've never done a pillar bed job, but a skim bed (over and aluminum chassis/block) is simple I think. I did my first one following the sticky posted at the top and it went very well really. The rifle was more consistent, not sure it really improved the accuracy, but the action was making complete contact with the bedding block for the whole length of both. Good luck with your decision.
Re: Savage floating rear tang
Hard to say without seeing the stock. But from the sound of things I would take this approach ( with or without pillars). Tape the underside of the tang for clearance. Shim the barrel channel to level the barrel and action. Use a paste type bedding material like Marine Tex, Devcon, etc to bed the areas where the stock screws are. NO NOT draw the screws up tight, only until the barreled action comes into light contact with the tang and barrel channel shim. The goal is to have everything level and stress free, so do not tighten! Once cured, remove the shim and the tape and you are ready to go.
Hard to say without seeing the stock. But from the sound of things I would take this approach ( with or without pillars). Tape the underside of the tang for clearance. Shim the barrel channel to level the barrel and action. Use a paste type bedding material like Marine Tex, Devcon, etc to bed the areas where the stock screws are. NO NOT draw the screws up tight, only until the barreled action comes into light contact with the tang and barrel channel shim. The goal is to have everything level and stress free, so do not tighten! Once cured, remove the shim and the tape and you are ready to go.
Re: Savage floating rear tang
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageMOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Flyboy, I'd like to see the pictures when it's finished. Also, are you a pilot or is flyboy just how you shoot. Kidding. I'm actually a helicopter pilot so I was curious</div></div>
The tang on a Savage is fixed at the rear action bolt and free towards the butt end of the rifle which creates essentially a cantilever beam. Any time you apply force on a cantilever beam , stresses are introduced. Torquing the rear action bolt with material under the tang will create a variable upward force with a moment arm across the length of the tang - especially given that the trigger and bolt release cutout are not symmetrical across the radius of the action. Then you have a situation where not only is it a straight upward force but there is also a rotational aspect. Granted, all of these factors may be very small...but they're still there...
I'm not saying free floating the tang is the only way to do it, google 'statics' and 'cantilever beam', learn all you can, and make your own choice.
See below for pictures of my tang, hopefully you can tell what I was talking about.
Also, typing 'see below for pictures of my tang' sounded pretty dirty. And yes, I am a pilot (although, the descriptor is probably accurate for my shooting as well but only four out of five shots in a group...).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageMOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Flyboy, I'd like to see the pictures when it's finished. Also, are you a pilot or is flyboy just how you shoot. Kidding. I'm actually a helicopter pilot so I was curious</div></div>
The tang on a Savage is fixed at the rear action bolt and free towards the butt end of the rifle which creates essentially a cantilever beam. Any time you apply force on a cantilever beam , stresses are introduced. Torquing the rear action bolt with material under the tang will create a variable upward force with a moment arm across the length of the tang - especially given that the trigger and bolt release cutout are not symmetrical across the radius of the action. Then you have a situation where not only is it a straight upward force but there is also a rotational aspect. Granted, all of these factors may be very small...but they're still there...
I'm not saying free floating the tang is the only way to do it, google 'statics' and 'cantilever beam', learn all you can, and make your own choice.
See below for pictures of my tang, hopefully you can tell what I was talking about.
Also, typing 'see below for pictures of my tang' sounded pretty dirty. And yes, I am a pilot (although, the descriptor is probably accurate for my shooting as well but only four out of five shots in a group...).
Re: Savage floating rear tang
That bedding job looks really good flyboy. I see your post below this also, ill read it threw. I tried uploading an image of my rear tang from my iPhone buts it's above my pay grade and couldn't figure it out. If I could it would make more sense. What do you pilot flyboy?
That bedding job looks really good flyboy. I see your post below this also, ill read it threw. I tried uploading an image of my rear tang from my iPhone buts it's above my pay grade and couldn't figure it out. If I could it would make more sense. What do you pilot flyboy?
Re: Savage floating rear tang
I bedded my tang purely for aesthetics. It shot .5 MOA before I bedded it, and shot .5 MOA after I bedded it.
I bedded my tang purely for aesthetics. It shot .5 MOA before I bedded it, and shot .5 MOA after I bedded it.
Re: Savage floating rear tang
A-rok, I'll keep that in mind. It seems if it's done well on a savage, then it doesn't seem to matter.
A-rok, I'll keep that in mind. It seems if it's done well on a savage, then it doesn't seem to matter.
Re: Savage floating rear tang
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageMOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A-rok, I'll keep that in mind. It seems if it's done well on a savage, then it doesn't seem to matter.</div></div>
I would agree that if it's done right, it wouldn't matter...which is probably pretty true for just about anything...deep thoughts.
If your gun already shoots a 0.5MOA and you're looking for a significant difference, it's going to be hard to measurably tell (would you wonder if your gun would really shoot a 0.48MOA if you hadn't bedded the tang?).
Private license - I have time in a 150, 150 Aerobat, 172, 180, 206 (floats), and a Super Cub (skis and wheels).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageMOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A-rok, I'll keep that in mind. It seems if it's done well on a savage, then it doesn't seem to matter.</div></div>
I would agree that if it's done right, it wouldn't matter...which is probably pretty true for just about anything...deep thoughts.
If your gun already shoots a 0.5MOA and you're looking for a significant difference, it's going to be hard to measurably tell (would you wonder if your gun would really shoot a 0.48MOA if you hadn't bedded the tang?).
Private license - I have time in a 150, 150 Aerobat, 172, 180, 206 (floats), and a Super Cub (skis and wheels).
