Craig "Sawman" Sawyer delivering some retribution to those who made him bleed his own blood.
I recently acquired this photo and thought it was cool.
I recently acquired this photo and thought it was cool.
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Photos Sawman in action!
- Thread starter AMTeam4
- Start date
Re: Sawman in action!
Sawman, I hope that's Greg Little-John in your sights but if it isn't give him a kick in the nuts for me next time you're there.
Sawman, I hope that's Greg Little-John in your sights but if it isn't give him a kick in the nuts for me next time you're there.
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sawman, I hope that's Greg Little-John in your sights but if it isn't give him a kick in the nuts for me next time you're there. </div></div>
HAHA... What a melodramatic homo that guy is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sawman, I hope that's Greg Little-John in your sights but if it isn't give him a kick in the nuts for me next time you're there. </div></div>
HAHA... What a melodramatic homo that guy is.
Re: Sawman in action!
That pic makes me want to go out and kill something...must be the Hog Saddle.
That pic makes me want to go out and kill something...must be the Hog Saddle.
Re: Sawman in action!
Any further details on the scenario? Real life vs comp? POF or GAP? Gun details?
Any further details on the scenario? Real life vs comp? POF or GAP? Gun details?
Re: Sawman in action!
I like that, I think we all need a good pic sighting in on a target with a dry blood stain running down the face. Perhaps a new thread in the photography section?
I like that, I think we all need a good pic sighting in on a target with a dry blood stain running down the face. Perhaps a new thread in the photography section?
Re: Sawman in action!
Reminds me of the day the scope on my 98k gave me a good case of Sniper's Eye!!
Great pic....hope you got the bastard that did that to you
Reminds me of the day the scope on my 98k gave me a good case of Sniper's Eye!!
Great pic....hope you got the bastard that did that to you
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sawman, I hope that's Greg Little-John in your sights but if it isn't give him a kick in the nuts for me next time you're there. </div></div>
^^^ Best thing I've read in a while!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sawman, I hope that's Greg Little-John in your sights but if it isn't give him a kick in the nuts for me next time you're there. </div></div>
^^^ Best thing I've read in a while!
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sawman, I hope that's Greg Little-John in your sights but if it isn't give him a kick in the nuts for me next time you're there. </div></div>
HAHA... What a melodramatic homo that guy is.</div></div>
And I thought I was the only one......I would have punched him in face if he ever tried to tie a hankerchief around my wrist....what a tool that guy is.
Back to the subject, the picture is very moving.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sawman, I hope that's Greg Little-John in your sights but if it isn't give him a kick in the nuts for me next time you're there. </div></div>
HAHA... What a melodramatic homo that guy is.</div></div>
And I thought I was the only one......I would have punched him in face if he ever tried to tie a hankerchief around my wrist....what a tool that guy is.
Back to the subject, the picture is very moving.
Re: Sawman in action!
If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it?
If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it?
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it? </div></div>
Little repressed sexual energy? Jesua dude...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it? </div></div>
Little repressed sexual energy? Jesua dude...
Re: Sawman in action!
To the best of my knowledge, the pic is from a photo shoot. Craig took a dinger to the head and decided to finish the shoot before tending to the wound.
High end guns, glass and blood... It makes a pretty sweet photo.
To the best of my knowledge, the pic is from a photo shoot. Craig took a dinger to the head and decided to finish the shoot before tending to the wound.
High end guns, glass and blood... It makes a pretty sweet photo.
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it? </div></div>
Little repressed sexual energy? Jesua dude... </div></div>
Nah, just amazed at how fanboi everyone gets over dudes who capitalize on their service. More power to em, just won't find me in line to kiss the feet of a mere man.
Two years of SHOT show attendance have pretty much soured me on the idea of the that niche industry being anything more than a bunch of cool dudes who are placed on pedestals, and everyone standing in line to lick boots.
Arfcom is on Costa's nuts, other sites on the nuts of the users of a scoped gun.
They're just men, but the way they're talked about, one might think them demi-gods.
Just men.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it? </div></div>
Little repressed sexual energy? Jesua dude... </div></div>
Nah, just amazed at how fanboi everyone gets over dudes who capitalize on their service. More power to em, just won't find me in line to kiss the feet of a mere man.
Two years of SHOT show attendance have pretty much soured me on the idea of the that niche industry being anything more than a bunch of cool dudes who are placed on pedestals, and everyone standing in line to lick boots.
Arfcom is on Costa's nuts, other sites on the nuts of the users of a scoped gun.
They're just men, but the way they're talked about, one might think them demi-gods.
Just men.
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it? </div></div>
Little repressed sexual energy? Jesua dude... </div></div>
Nah, just amazed at how fanboi everyone gets over dudes who capitalize on their service. More power to em, just won't find me in line to kiss the feet of a mere man.
Two years of SHOT show attendance have pretty much soured me on the idea of the that niche industry being anything more than a bunch of cool dudes who are placed on pedestals, and everyone standing in line to lick boots.
Arfcom is on Costa's nuts, other sites on the nuts of the users of a scoped gun.
They're just men, but the way they're talked about, one might think them demi-gods.
Just men. </div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it? </div></div>
Little repressed sexual energy? Jesua dude... </div></div>
Nah, just amazed at how fanboi everyone gets over dudes who capitalize on their service. More power to em, just won't find me in line to kiss the feet of a mere man.
Two years of SHOT show attendance have pretty much soured me on the idea of the that niche industry being anything more than a bunch of cool dudes who are placed on pedestals, and everyone standing in line to lick boots.
Arfcom is on Costa's nuts, other sites on the nuts of the users of a scoped gun.
They're just men, but the way they're talked about, one might think them demi-gods.
Just men. </div></div>
+1
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMTeam4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To the best of my knowledge, the pic is from a photo shoot. Craig took a dinger to the head and decided to finish the shoot before tending to the wound.
High end guns, glass and blood... It makes a pretty sweet photo. </div></div>
That Hog Saddle looks damaged... you can send it to me rather than tossing it... lol
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMTeam4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To the best of my knowledge, the pic is from a photo shoot. Craig took a dinger to the head and decided to finish the shoot before tending to the wound.
High end guns, glass and blood... It makes a pretty sweet photo. </div></div>
That Hog Saddle looks damaged... you can send it to me rather than tossing it... lol
Re: Sawman in action!
I didnt know who Craig "Sawman" Sawyer was until I looked at his profile and web site.
That dude is 100% pure bad ass. Thanks for your service Craig, glad you're back home among friends and family.
I didnt know who Craig "Sawman" Sawyer was until I looked at his profile and web site.
That dude is 100% pure bad ass. Thanks for your service Craig, glad you're back home among friends and family.
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it? </div></div>
Little repressed sexual energy? Jesua dude... </div></div>
Nah, just amazed at how fanboi everyone gets over dudes who capitalize on their service. More power to em, just won't find me in line to kiss the feet of a mere man.
Two years of SHOT show attendance have pretty much soured me on the idea of the that niche industry being anything more than a bunch of cool dudes who are placed on pedestals, and everyone standing in line to lick boots.
Arfcom is on Costa's nuts, other sites on the nuts of the users of a scoped gun.
They're just men, but the way they're talked about, one might think them demi-gods.
Just men. </div></div>
Rock on dude. I thought I was crazy for thinking the same thing. The circle jerk/hukkake comment is spot on bro.
Of course some here would attribute our way of thinking to jealousy or envy lol.
That being said, cool picture. Very operator<span style="font-style: italic">ish</span>.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it? </div></div>
Little repressed sexual energy? Jesua dude... </div></div>
Nah, just amazed at how fanboi everyone gets over dudes who capitalize on their service. More power to em, just won't find me in line to kiss the feet of a mere man.
Two years of SHOT show attendance have pretty much soured me on the idea of the that niche industry being anything more than a bunch of cool dudes who are placed on pedestals, and everyone standing in line to lick boots.
Arfcom is on Costa's nuts, other sites on the nuts of the users of a scoped gun.
They're just men, but the way they're talked about, one might think them demi-gods.
Just men. </div></div>
Rock on dude. I thought I was crazy for thinking the same thing. The circle jerk/hukkake comment is spot on bro.
Of course some here would attribute our way of thinking to jealousy or envy lol.
That being said, cool picture. Very operator<span style="font-style: italic">ish</span>.
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it? </div></div>
Little repressed sexual energy? Jesua dude... </div></div>
Nah, just amazed at how fanboi everyone gets over dudes who capitalize on their service. More power to em, just won't find me in line to kiss the feet of a mere man.
Two years of SHOT show attendance have pretty much soured me on the idea of the that niche industry being anything more than a bunch of cool dudes who are placed on pedestals, and everyone standing in line to lick boots.
Arfcom is on Costa's nuts, other sites on the nuts of the users of a scoped gun.
They're just men, but the way they're talked about, one might think them demi-gods.
Just men. </div></div>
I can agree to an extent on the fanboyism, but as a small business owner I can tell you that it would be nice if people would buy a product from a veteran in the same way people like myself buy American cars to show American loyalty.
It would sure help to put a soldier into an occupation that helped him stay in the US.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it? </div></div>
Little repressed sexual energy? Jesua dude... </div></div>
Nah, just amazed at how fanboi everyone gets over dudes who capitalize on their service. More power to em, just won't find me in line to kiss the feet of a mere man.
Two years of SHOT show attendance have pretty much soured me on the idea of the that niche industry being anything more than a bunch of cool dudes who are placed on pedestals, and everyone standing in line to lick boots.
Arfcom is on Costa's nuts, other sites on the nuts of the users of a scoped gun.
They're just men, but the way they're talked about, one might think them demi-gods.
Just men. </div></div>
I can agree to an extent on the fanboyism, but as a small business owner I can tell you that it would be nice if people would buy a product from a veteran in the same way people like myself buy American cars to show American loyalty.
It would sure help to put a soldier into an occupation that helped him stay in the US.
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMTeam4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To the best of my knowledge, the pic is from a photo shoot. Craig took a dinger to the head and decided to finish the shoot before tending to the wound.
</div></div>
Yeah, figured it was posed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AMTeam4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To the best of my knowledge, the pic is from a photo shoot. Craig took a dinger to the head and decided to finish the shoot before tending to the wound.
</div></div>
Yeah, figured it was posed.
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 105amatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is he bleeding? </div></div>
He is bleeding because his eye is on the scope...... Anyone else catch that?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 105amatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is he bleeding? </div></div>
He is bleeding because his eye is on the scope...... Anyone else catch that?
Re: Sawman in action!
No, he didn't catch scope-eye. That would be a wild blood pattern if so. LOL
I talked to Sawman and this is what he said,
"Bro, there's no cool lie to tell about the head wound. I went to rush back to the truck to grab something and just about knocked my ass out on a low concrete doorway. It split open and started bleeding everywhere. I didn't want to pack everything up and go spend the next 10 hours in the ER with a massive medical bill to pay after just a couple stitches. So I just let it bleed till we were done and used Superglue on it when I got home. Big fucking gash..."
No, he didn't catch scope-eye. That would be a wild blood pattern if so. LOL
I talked to Sawman and this is what he said,
"Bro, there's no cool lie to tell about the head wound. I went to rush back to the truck to grab something and just about knocked my ass out on a low concrete doorway. It split open and started bleeding everywhere. I didn't want to pack everything up and go spend the next 10 hours in the ER with a massive medical bill to pay after just a couple stitches. So I just let it bleed till we were done and used Superglue on it when I got home. Big fucking gash..."
Re: Sawman in action!
Sawman is a bad mofo and a great american..talk all the shit on the keyboard you want which totally is uncalled for, but i doubt you would do so in person unless you like eating out of a straw for a while.
And you know who im talking to mr. I got PTSD, PMS ,faking the funk or whatever other malingering poser shit you got there son.
Sawman is a bad mofo and a great american..talk all the shit on the keyboard you want which totally is uncalled for, but i doubt you would do so in person unless you like eating out of a straw for a while.
And you know who im talking to mr. I got PTSD, PMS ,faking the funk or whatever other malingering poser shit you got there son.
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it? </div></div>
Little repressed sexual energy? Jesua dude... </div></div>
Nah, just amazed at how fanboi everyone gets over dudes who capitalize on their service. More power to em, just won't find me in line to kiss the feet of a mere man.
Two years of SHOT show attendance have pretty much soured me on the idea of the that niche industry being anything more than a bunch of cool dudes who are placed on pedestals, and everyone standing in line to lick boots.
Arfcom is on Costa's nuts, other sites on the nuts of the users of a scoped gun.
They're just men, but the way they're talked about, one might think them demi-gods.
Just men. </div></div>
You should check out some of zak smith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this dude, Vickers, Lamb, Kyle, etc all circle-jerked into a cup, how many here would gladly do a shot of it? </div></div>
Little repressed sexual energy? Jesua dude... </div></div>
Nah, just amazed at how fanboi everyone gets over dudes who capitalize on their service. More power to em, just won't find me in line to kiss the feet of a mere man.
Two years of SHOT show attendance have pretty much soured me on the idea of the that niche industry being anything more than a bunch of cool dudes who are placed on pedestals, and everyone standing in line to lick boots.
Arfcom is on Costa's nuts, other sites on the nuts of the users of a scoped gun.
They're just men, but the way they're talked about, one might think them demi-gods.
Just men. </div></div>
You should check out some of zak smith
Re: Sawman in action!
Hey brothers, thanks for sharing the image and for any of your support. I'm honored anyone would even care to see it. Was a cool surprise to see it posted up.
It was a pro photo shoot for my sponsors who have been so supportive. Very few real-world images taken in the heat of battle. The few I have will never be seen by anyone other than my teammates and my son once he's old enough to understand. Not much photo snapping in the dark of night when the real deal is on... I'm sure most of you guys understand that.
I don't expect any particular respect. I was honored to serve. That's it. Tons of other Warriors out there doing the same and more.
Here are more images from that shoot: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=...mp;notif_t=like
All the best to each of you.
~SAW
Hey brothers, thanks for sharing the image and for any of your support. I'm honored anyone would even care to see it. Was a cool surprise to see it posted up.
It was a pro photo shoot for my sponsors who have been so supportive. Very few real-world images taken in the heat of battle. The few I have will never be seen by anyone other than my teammates and my son once he's old enough to understand. Not much photo snapping in the dark of night when the real deal is on... I'm sure most of you guys understand that.
I don't expect any particular respect. I was honored to serve. That's it. Tons of other Warriors out there doing the same and more.
Here are more images from that shoot: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=...mp;notif_t=like
All the best to each of you.
~SAW
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SAWMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey brothers, thanks for sharing the image and for any of your support. I'm honored anyone would even care to see it. Was a cool surprise to see it posted up.
It was a pro photo shoot for my sponsors who have been so supportive. Very few real-world images taken in the heat of battle. The few I have will never be seen by anyone other than my teammates and my son once he's old enough to understand. Not much photo snapping in the dark of night when the real deal is on... I'm sure most of you guys understand that.
I don't expect any particular respect. I was honored to serve. That's it. Tons of other Warriors out there doing the same and more.
Here are more images from that shoot: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=...mp;notif_t=like
All the best to each of you.
~SAW </div></div>
By the way saw man. I was just bustin' your chops
Thanks for your service and we look forward to you posting on the hide.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SAWMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey brothers, thanks for sharing the image and for any of your support. I'm honored anyone would even care to see it. Was a cool surprise to see it posted up.
It was a pro photo shoot for my sponsors who have been so supportive. Very few real-world images taken in the heat of battle. The few I have will never be seen by anyone other than my teammates and my son once he's old enough to understand. Not much photo snapping in the dark of night when the real deal is on... I'm sure most of you guys understand that.
I don't expect any particular respect. I was honored to serve. That's it. Tons of other Warriors out there doing the same and more.
Here are more images from that shoot: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=...mp;notif_t=like
All the best to each of you.
~SAW </div></div>
By the way saw man. I was just bustin' your chops
Thanks for your service and we look forward to you posting on the hide.
Re: Sawman in action!
Hey, here's some fun video Cole shot that day, in addition to the stills. Just trying to show some appreciation for my outstanding sponsors.
(crank up your speakers!!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_JdxXiPSPU&feature=youtu.be
Hey, here's some fun video Cole shot that day, in addition to the stills. Just trying to show some appreciation for my outstanding sponsors.
(crank up your speakers!!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_JdxXiPSPU&feature=youtu.be
Re: Sawman in action!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharfshutze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sawman is a bad mofo and a great american..talk all the shit on the keyboard you want which totally is uncalled for, but i doubt you would do so in person unless you like eating out of a straw for a while.
And you know who im talking to mr. I got PTSD, PMS ,faking the funk or whatever other malingering poser shit you got there son. </div></div>
I don't think he was trying to diss the Sawman he was just saying it's funny how people gravitate to the balls of some extra "tactical " individuals ....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharfshutze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sawman is a bad mofo and a great american..talk all the shit on the keyboard you want which totally is uncalled for, but i doubt you would do so in person unless you like eating out of a straw for a while.
And you know who im talking to mr. I got PTSD, PMS ,faking the funk or whatever other malingering poser shit you got there son. </div></div>
I don't think he was trying to diss the Sawman he was just saying it's funny how people gravitate to the balls of some extra "tactical " individuals ....
