I live right on the border of Alabama and Georgia. If I want to make an sbr, would I have to report to the atf every time I traveled across that state line? I work in Georgia but live in Alabama. I shoot at ranges on both sides and hunt in both states. That’s how I’m reading it and it’s turning me off from doing an sbr... thanks for any enlightenment.
Suppressors Sbr and state lines...
- Thread starter jeffl838
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Just fill out an ATF Form 5320.20 with the dates Jan 1, 20XX to Dec. 31, 20XX. That will cover it. ( Edit - ooops, like he said at the same time ),
Yup the fine print in the instructions attached to form 20 covers the "back and forth a lot" case, as Lieutenant Sgt M Miii indicates.
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I looked at the pistol option ... but if you read thru the docs ... the current interpretation (it might be ok) is based on an "open letter" that clarifies a previous "open letter".. The second open letter implies it is ok ... the first open letter implies it is not ok. The second open letter says it changes nothing said in the first open letter but only "clarifies" ... so ... hum ...
If 100% true, I would interpret all that to mean "it is not ok" equals "it is ok" ... which is a logical contradiction (I'm a trained mathematician ... we worry about logic and stuff
) ... which means .. I'm not going to try it .. because .. when it comes down to it .. "the law is what a given judge says it is on a given day for a given purpose" ... and it sounds too "mushy" to me. But I do know people who do the pistol thing as a work around to having to file form 20s ... so people do it ... I am just not among them. I'm still doing the form 20s ...
"Daddy, can I please take my toys over to Johnny's house to play? I promise to bring them home by sun down ! "
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I looked at the pistol option ... but if you read thru the docs ... the current interpretation (it might be ok) is based on an "open letter" that clarifies a previous "open letter".. The second open letter implies it is ok ... the first open letter implies it is not ok. The second open letter says it changes nothing said in the first open letter but only "clarifies" ... so ... hum ...
If 100% true, I would interpret all that to mean "it is not ok" equals "it is ok" ... which is a logical contradiction (I'm a trained mathematician ... we worry about logic and stuff
) ... which means .. I'm not going to try it .. because .. when it comes down to it .. "the law is what a given judge says it is on a given day for a given purpose" ... and it sounds too "mushy" to me. But I do know people who do the pistol thing as a work around to having to file form 20s ... so people do it ... I am just not among them. I'm still doing the form 20s ... "Daddy, can I please take my toys over to Johnny's house to play? I promise to bring them home by sun down ! "
Suppressors dont need the .20, as long as you can legally possess the item in both states.
Any other class 3, sbr, full auto, etc, form .20. I have done them for a year at a time, generally going the same places to shoot, for the past 15 years, zero problems.
Recently a friend bought a new house and moved. Our c3 dealer reminded him to do the change of address form....
About 12 years ago, I moved, and did the change of address.
So...... travelling with an early sbr, I have the form 4, the change of address, and the .20... (copies.... laminated...), readily available. And zero problems so far.
Hope this helps..
But, I also have a pistol, and a laminated bill of sale, showing it was purchased as a pistol.... just in case.
Any other class 3, sbr, full auto, etc, form .20. I have done them for a year at a time, generally going the same places to shoot, for the past 15 years, zero problems.
Recently a friend bought a new house and moved. Our c3 dealer reminded him to do the change of address form....
About 12 years ago, I moved, and did the change of address.
So...... travelling with an early sbr, I have the form 4, the change of address, and the .20... (copies.... laminated...), readily available. And zero problems so far.
Hope this helps..
But, I also have a pistol, and a laminated bill of sale, showing it was purchased as a pistol.... just in case.
Yup ... again, this is also stated in the fine print instructions attached to form 20 ... but as another "just in case" ... I put the suppressors on the form 20s also ... to cover the case where the local LEOs aren't 100% up to date on the ATF rules.
I take COPIES (not the originals - they remain at home) of all my ATF paperwork the trust doc, all the forms 1 and forms 4 in a sealed water proof bag in my pack ... again "just in case" .. that is ... when I go off my land ...
I've never had a problem either ... but it just takes one "problem" ... to cause a BIG problem ... and become a possible life changing event.
Fortunately the states I would go thru with suppressors, sbrs, hecque any firearms are all RED RED RED sort of states ... thank goodness ...
Here is the second letter that supposedly "clarifies the earlier one" (I have been unable to find it directly on the ATF website).
https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/atf-letter-march-21-2017.pdf
And here is the first letter that states that shouldering a pistol "makes" it an SBR. This one is find able on the ATF site.
https://www.atf.gov/file/11816/download
Just the beginning and end points ...
What I'm not 100 percent sure of is what happens if you had to drive thru a place like CA ? Where no NFA items are legal? I know what I would do. I would not do it ... I would find something else to do. I haven't studied this problem. I don't have it. All the states I want to go to or thru are are pro gun ... NFA legal ...
Now if you were gonna shoot the SBR in multiple states on one trip, that would be multiple form 20s ... but I haven't done that yet.
What I'm not 100 percent sure of is what happens if you had to drive thru a place like CA ? Where no NFA items are legal? I know what I would do. I would not do it ... I would find something else to do. I haven't studied this problem. I don't have it. All the states I want to go to or thru are are pro gun ... NFA legal ...
Now if you were gonna shoot the SBR in multiple states on one trip, that would be multiple form 20s ... but I haven't done that yet.
I was told, by atfe, that you could file, beginning and end and stop anywhere reasonable in between and shoot, but, you could put multiple destinations on the route if you were going to stay at those places several days.
I would re-check that, though.
But if that guy doesn't show up to testify at your trial, you could be screwed ... reading the Form 20 instructions I do not see the "stop along the way" aspect covered. If I wanted to stop and shoot, I'd send in multiple forms. And even if the guy does show up ... if they confiscate your stuff ... and throw you in jail .. it won't be fun ... and you might never get your stuff back ... and that could happen even if we do everything perfectly. Just one of the risks we take for breathing on earth ... sierra hotel ...
I believe the right of passage laws that allow us to fly with firearms pertains to traveling though hostile states in a vehicle. However, I don't ever see a reason to travel though CA to get anywhere. There is nothing south of it accept Mexico and the only place you could be to make this 'necessary' would be Oregon. Drive east to the next interstate and go south. For the rest, just put everything in locked containers and separate firearms and magazines/ammunition into separate locked cases, and genuinely be on your way somewhere else.
when it comes to ARs.....the pistol is definitely the way to go unless you are building a replica.
also the Maxim brace is pretty short.....its about as short as most of the rifle pdw stocks out there......if you wanted to go any shorter ide look at something like the Sig MCX over the AR
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You just register your SBR, then when you travel out of state with it, ATF likes to be notified. I'm not sure if you need a reply from them, I'd call and ask about that, they're pretty good and giving you the info you need. ATF.gov also has info, you should check that out too. But it's only a few minutes to find out where they want it mailed and if you need to wait on a reply. If you need a reply, they don't take as long as the stamps do, thank god.
Since your case is special, perhaps they'd be okay with a general "I frequently travel back and forth with my SBR". You need to call and check. They may send you a reply saying they know about it all is good. Who knows? Unless you call, you won't.
FWIW, I knew of a guy that had a class3 business on the state line of FL and AL. He rented MG's and sold those and suppressors among other things IIRC. I installed his security. Wanna say his property literally strode the state line and he joked you shot in one state but the target was in another, but whatever the case, I'm sure he regularly crossed state lines and I'm sure many of his customers down there did too. In fact, I know he did, he had business licenses for both states (not sure how his FFL worked though). Really nice guy, bought my first integral Mk2 from him but had to unfortunately stop the process because I moved.
And if you have MG's or DD's, pretty sure they want to know where you're going, when you'll be back, etc., and I think it's a permission deal, not just notification. They're more strict with certain items like those. But even then, they may make an exception. They must have with that dealer I'm talking about. They can basically do what they want. I have a semi M2HB. Technically an MG, not a rifle or DD, but it has an exception because the mfg. asked for it. I have to keep the papers it came with stating such.
I don't think suppressors require a notification or anything, but many folks send one just in case.
I'd be sure to contact ATF and ask them though to be on safe side. But it's no problem traveling with them if you know what to do and CYA first if necessary.
Love my SBR's. I may be moving sooner or later too, possibly to a state line, so despite how this thread goes, when my time comes, I'll be calling ATF myself and getting the info when I'm ready. I think everyone should. Unless you get one after another solid unanimous responses, you should call ATF. Or your NFA attorney if you have a trust (you DID use an NFA attorney for your trust, right?). That's just my experience and $.02.
Since your case is special, perhaps they'd be okay with a general "I frequently travel back and forth with my SBR". You need to call and check. They may send you a reply saying they know about it all is good. Who knows? Unless you call, you won't.
FWIW, I knew of a guy that had a class3 business on the state line of FL and AL. He rented MG's and sold those and suppressors among other things IIRC. I installed his security. Wanna say his property literally strode the state line and he joked you shot in one state but the target was in another, but whatever the case, I'm sure he regularly crossed state lines and I'm sure many of his customers down there did too. In fact, I know he did, he had business licenses for both states (not sure how his FFL worked though). Really nice guy, bought my first integral Mk2 from him but had to unfortunately stop the process because I moved.
And if you have MG's or DD's, pretty sure they want to know where you're going, when you'll be back, etc., and I think it's a permission deal, not just notification. They're more strict with certain items like those. But even then, they may make an exception. They must have with that dealer I'm talking about. They can basically do what they want. I have a semi M2HB. Technically an MG, not a rifle or DD, but it has an exception because the mfg. asked for it. I have to keep the papers it came with stating such.
I don't think suppressors require a notification or anything, but many folks send one just in case.
I'd be sure to contact ATF and ask them though to be on safe side. But it's no problem traveling with them if you know what to do and CYA first if necessary.
Love my SBR's. I may be moving sooner or later too, possibly to a state line, so despite how this thread goes, when my time comes, I'll be calling ATF myself and getting the info when I'm ready. I think everyone should. Unless you get one after another solid unanimous responses, you should call ATF. Or your NFA attorney if you have a trust (you DID use an NFA attorney for your trust, right?). That's just my experience and $.02.
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