Rifle Scopes SBR Optic... Elcan or Razor? Others?

[Spydey225]

I know we had a thread not too long ago about the best SHTF/Duty optic... I originally asked about swapping my Razor 1-6 (Non-E version) for an NX8 as I was trying to cut weight, but it seems as if the NX8 may not be the best choice. That being said, I sort of stumbled across the Elcan SpecterDR 1-4, and figured it could be a decent contender.

My main couple of concerns for this optic/setup are weight balance on 10.3in gun and 1x performance. Ive used EOTechs and Aimpoints before, but am just not a huge fan of running a magnifier with the dots. That being said, as a potential duty gun, I really want to have some form of magnification for the times that it is absolutely needed.

Anyone have any experience running an Elcan on a 10.3in SBR, or a Razor 1-6? This is my first dive into the SBR world, so Ive got no hands-on experience for how a heavier optic will balance on a shorter rifle (used to 14.5in guns). As best as I can see it, my choices boil down to the Elcan 1-4, Razor Gen II E 1-6, or the NX8. The gun will live 250m -ish and in for 90% of its life, so 1x performance is awfully important, but for my context when I need magnification, I REALLY need magnification (thus no red dot). Uncommon shooting positions, target transitions, and FOV/Ease of use are going to be important.

Anyone have any input or wisdom to drop on me for an SBR optic?

 

[The King]

In a lot of ways the elcan is still relevant.

I find a sight on top can be useful for left shoulder work.

I know we had a thread not too long ago about the best SHTF/Duty optic... I originally asked about swapping my Razor 1-6 (Non-E version) for an NX8 as I was trying to cut weight, but it seems as if the NX8 may not be the best choice. That being said, I sort of stumbled across the Elcan SpecterDR 1-4, and figured it could be a decent contender.

My main couple of concerns for this optic/setup are weight balance on 10.3in gun and 1x performance. Ive used EOTechs and Aimpoints before, but am just not a huge fan of running a magnifier with the dots. That being said, as a potential duty gun, I really want to have some form of magnification for the times that it is absolutely needed.

Anyone have any experience running an Elcan on a 10.3in SBR, or a Razor 1-6? This is my first dive into the SBR world, so Ive got no hands-on experience for how a heavier optic will balance on a shorter rifle (used to 14.5in guns). As best as I can see it, my choices boil down to the Elcan 1-4, Razor Gen II E 1-6, or the NX8. The gun will live 250m -ish and in for 90% of its life, so 1x performance is awfully important, but for my context when I need magnification, I REALLY need magnification (thus no red dot). Uncommon shooting positions, target transitions, and FOV/Ease of use are going to be important.

Anyone have any input or wisdom to drop on me for an SBR optic?

 

[Paralax]

For shorty rifles I pretty much have gone the way of being as light weight as possible; it’s so easy to let an sbr get too chubby and loose it’s quick handling qualities.

A light weight 1-4x (or 1-6x) or the like with a 45 degree offset mini dot is a pretty versatile combo. It doesn’t take too much practice to get that canted presentation and have the dot come right into view. I’ve even ran a fixed 10x with in conjunction with an offset dot and liked it decently well.

For sbr use under 250m at man-sized targets, 4x should be sufficient with good eyesight. Of course, target ID or other factors might warrant more mag. The 1x would be there for most things and if snap shots or off balance/weird positioning, the offset dot is there a bit faster if needed. Only downside I’ve found with the offset is being cognizant to not bang it around as much or catch it on something, it’s not quite as slick.

If the offset idea is worth pursuing for you, something like an SWFA ultralight 2.5-10x32 (9.5 oz) would pair well with the mini dot (3 oz) and total weight should be under 14 oz before mounts...

That being said, the Elcan is no doubt an awesome optical instrument, if the weight and cost don’t hinder you.

 

[S197]

I know we had a thread not too long ago about the best SHTF/Duty optic... I originally asked about swapping my Razor 1-6 (Non-E version) for an NX8 as I was trying to cut weight, but it seems as if the NX8 may not be the best choice. That being said, I sort of stumbled across the Elcan SpecterDR 1-4, and figured it could be a decent contender.

My main couple of concerns for this optic/setup are weight balance on 10.3in gun and 1x performance. Ive used EOTechs and Aimpoints before, but am just not a huge fan of running a magnifier with the dots. That being said, as a potential duty gun, I really want to have some form of magnification for the times that it is absolutely needed.

Anyone have any experience running an Elcan on a 10.3in SBR, or a Razor 1-6? This is my first dive into the SBR world, so Ive got no hands-on experience for how a heavier optic will balance on a shorter rifle (used to 14.5in guns). As best as I can see it, my choices boil down to the Elcan 1-4, Razor Gen II E 1-6, or the NX8. The gun will live 250m -ish and in for 90% of its life, so 1x performance is awfully important, but for my context when I need magnification, I REALLY need magnification (thus no red dot). Uncommon shooting positions, target transitions, and FOV/Ease of use are going to be important.

Anyone have any input or wisdom to drop on me for an SBR optic?

I would hold off on buying a 1-6 razor E, they will start to come down in pricing and I don’t believe you would gain much. I would consider piggybacking an RMR with an optic.

 

[Spydey225]

I dont have any major hesitation with piggybacking an RMR, but seeing as the rifle is going to be living in 1x for the vast majority of its life, I think I need a 1-X power variable as opposed to something without the 1x option.

Is the 8x in the NX8 overkill? Yeah probably, the draw would be that its lighter than the Razor... granted the Elcan would also be lighter than the Razor + mount by a significant amount. I think my hangup is that the Elcan is rather antiquated at this point, and I feel like I could get a "better" all around optic from some LPVO offerings.

 

[clcustom1911]

2moa Red dot, 50 yard zero.

Center chest aiming from 0 to 200-225 yards which is the terminal ballistic limit of most projectiles out of a 10.3" 5.56 platform.

Not to say you can't poke holes in people beyond 225 or so, but reliable expansion becomes an issue past that distance.

Simple, light, and easy to instruct anyone on it's use should things go really awry.

Or... stating it a different way....about 3" high at 100 gives you this with 77TMK's moving 2500mv. 6" vital zone diameter....

 

[sleeplz]

You can always go gen3 1-10. The 1-6 is great on any AR and makes spotting hits too easy. 1x is pretty true, my only complaint is the stiff mag ring.

 

[Spydey225]

2moa Red dot, 50 yard zero.

Center chest aiming from 0 to 200-225 yards which is the terminal ballistic limit of most projectiles out of a 10.3" 5.56 platform.

Not to say you can't poke holes in people beyond 225 or so, but reliable expansion becomes an issue past that distance.

Simple, light, and easy to instruct anyone on it's use should things go really awry.

If I could use just a T2 I would, but I have to have magnification for PID. Its going to be a potential duty gun, so I have to have the ability to magnify if needed. Will magnification or 200+ meter engagements be the norm? No. Absoultely not. But when the time comes, Ive gotta be able to at least get to 4x.

 

[Kadams1563]

Maybe look at the Unity Tactical FAST system. It’s a red dot magnifier combo BUT the magnifier goes straight down out of the way and not off to either side.

 

[Spydey225]

Oh damn, hadnt seen that before... maybe that would help with my hatred of FTS magnifiers... may be the answer Im looking for too instead of a Razor or Elcan

 

[clcustom1911]

If I could use just a T2 I would, but I have to have magnification for PID. Its going to be a potential duty gun, so I have to have the ability to magnify if needed. Will magnification or 200+ meter engagements be the norm? No. Absoultely not. But when the time comes, Ive gotta be able to at least get to 4x.

Fair enough. Every agency is different. When I was LE we had T1's on the patrol rifles. At my non-LE gig right now, we have a choice of TA47 ACOG or EOTech.

While in the military I had a TA31RCO ACOG that was for all distances from RET to 500m LOL. Regardless of what you choose, train with it a lot (like alotta lot)

 

[E-Tool]

EOTECH EXPS 3-0 all day, though I admit mine has an MRO right now, with no issues. I don't use ACOGs until 14.5-16", in which case TA01NSN, I put tape on so many fiberoptic I finally decided to purchase a surplus NSN for $450 with next to dead tritium and it has served me well, I have tow of them now, I tried a fiber optic version of the "NSN" and it was too bright, had to put a bicycle inner tube on it to cover the fiber.

ETA - I killed a coyote at 175-200 yards with an EOTECH on a 10.5", though some folks have issues due to astigmatism and the dots blur, so YMMV.

 

[S197]

I dont have any major hesitation with piggybacking an RMR, but seeing as the rifle is going to be living in 1x for the vast majority of its life, I think I need a 1-X power variable as opposed to something without the 1x option.

Is the 8x in the NX8 overkill? Yeah probably, the draw would be that its lighter than the Razor... granted the Elcan would also be lighter than the Razor + mount by a significant amount. I think my hangup is that the Elcan is rather antiquated at this point, and I feel like I could get a "better" all around optic from some LPVO offerings.

part of me still feels that an RMR would be pointless on an LPVO. But then I think of all the shortcomings that are with a 1x optic, no matter how much money you spend on it. With an RMR you do not need to worry as much with head placement.

also 8x is not over kill if you buy quality optics. If my department allowed us, I would put an RMR on our duty rifle.

 

[E-Tool]

Why not an SRO? It's not that much bigger, but the field of view allowing you to obtain a sight picture is way better.

On a pistol it took me quite a while to be able to obtain a sight picture with the dot. I've only warmed up to them recently. They are very accurate, but before significant use, very slow.

 

[army_eod]

ACOGs or PA Prism.

 

[RTV]

Your debate should be between the NX8 and the Razor G3 because at 1x both of these optics become almost like a true red dot.

I asked Koshkin which would be better on 1x between the Razor G3 and the NX8 and he said that the Razor is just simply better. 1x, 8x doesnt matter it is better. because of that i wound up getting the Razor G3 and am SUPER glad i did because at 1x this thing truly is a bulky red dot with the way the FFP reticle works and i think you would be much happier with it than the SFP reticle on the G2 that seems to clutter things up a bit more. additionally in less than 10 minuets of dry firing i don't even have to worry about the eye box anymore it is very easy to train yourself to work with and get behind.


If you plan on adding a suppressor to the rifle get the G3 and do not look back! it will all balance nicely. if you are not then the NX8 might be worth it for weight/balance reasons but just know that it is an optical sacrifice for handling gains. 1x the eyebox is less and FOV is less. 8x is no comparison especially if you think you might need 8x for PID.

 

[The King]

I have the 1-10 razor, elcan, and nx8. Had the SB 1-8.

If you are going to CQB/MOUT a red dot is necessary. Preferably in a super high mount. It’s all about getting behind that shit.

The 1-10 razor is better than the NX8, ATACR 1-8x, G2 razor, and it’s more versatile than the elcan but I like the elcan more for a 10.3. It does not weigh more than the nx8 and a mount.

 

[koshkin]

One of the things that does not get enough coverage when the conversation comes down to prismatic vs LPVO is where the balance is front to back.

With Prismatics being a little shorter and usually having a little less eye relief, the weight you are adding ends up being further back and that seems to have a less pronounces effect on handling speed.

If you do not need the additional magnification of the Razor Gen3, Elcan Spetre DR has a lot to recommend itself. I have been using the fixed power Elcan Spectre4x with a red dot piggybacked on top of it for several years and for many applications, I kind alike the simplicity of it. It also happens to be lighter than Spectre DR or LPVOs (with mounts).

Now, since for you 1x performance is a big deal, Spectre DR might be the ticket, but the battery life is not Aimpoint long.

In a situation like this, perhaps it is worth exploring that ultra high red dot mount from Unity Tactical. For me, it is a bit too tall with conventional stocks, but I might experiment with it a little to see if an additional cheekpiece will make it work better.

ILya

 

[Spydey225]

Great feedback here from the group. I do have an EOTech EXPS 3 currently, so I'm really leaning away from any sort of red dot at the moment. The EOTech has worked well enough, and should I determine that the LPVO/Elcan game isn't working, I can just switch right back.

Looks like the consensus here is Razor (Gen 3) or Elcan... 10x would no doubt be overkill, and it seems that the Elcan would handle/balance better on the 10.3in barrel, which is a real concern.

Honestly at this point it feels like Im splitting hairs between the two, and it may just come down to the right deal at the right time.

 

[hypno02]

Your debate should be between the NX8 and the Razor G3 because at 1x both of these optics become almost like a true red dot.

I asked Koshkin which would be better on 1x between the Razor G3 and the NX8 and he said that the Razor is just simply better. 1x, 8x doesnt matter it is better. because of that i wound up getting the Razor G3 and am SUPER glad i did because at 1x this thing truly is a bulky red dot with the way the FFP reticle works and i think you would be much happier with it than the SFP reticle on the G2 that seems to clutter things up a bit more. additionally in less than 10 minuets of dry firing i don't even have to worry about the eye box anymore it is very easy to train yourself to work with and get behind.


If you plan on adding a suppressor to the rifle get the G3 and do not look back! it will all balance nicely. if you are not then the NX8 might be worth it for weight/balance reasons but just know that it is an optical sacrifice for handling gains. 1x the eyebox is less and FOV is less. 8x is no comparison especially if you think you might need 8x for PID.

The nx8 gets much brighter than the g3 when it comes to illumination. Which makes it a better “red dot” in my opinion. When it comes to field of view POV edge thickness yes the razor is better but it’s a piss poor reticle if your battery were to die on 1x where the nx8 has a great 1x black reticle. That’s the major downfall of the g3

 

[Spydey225]

I was initially intrigued by the NX8 due to size and weight, but Ive heard too many horror stories of guys saying that the eye box is so tight that the 1x performance and using it as a "red dot" is a major step down from the Razor. Shooting around barricades, target acquisition, around vehicles etc is all a concern, so I sort of trusted the guidance/experience from others who state that the NX8 is inferior to the Razor in that application.

That being said, I wasn't a major fan of my G2 Razor reticle, and would like to get behind the G3.

 

[RTV]

The nx8 gets much brighter than the g3 when it comes to illumination. Which makes it a better “red dot” in my opinion. When it comes to field of view POV edge thickness yes the razor is better but it’s a piss poor reticle if your battery were to die on 1x where the nx8 has a great 1x black reticle. That’s the major downfall of the g3

Have you tried both personally?

I cannot compare to an NX8 however in my experience with the G3 the reticle is very usable at 1x without illumination and there are a few reviews floating around about how you can use the three thick lines to bracket targets even if its not quite as fast with the dot and that has been my expirence as well that it has been quite easy to use without illumination.

As far as brightness goes the brightest real world setting i have tested in was a particularly bright and sunny day with a fresh coat of snow on the ground reflecting the light everywhere. It was uncomfortably bright for my naked eye but I could still easily and very usable see the dot.

The only other condition I can think of that might thwart this optic is facing the sun during the evening when its shinning in your eyes and blinding you which I hope to test out soon.

If I had one complaint about this optic its that the illumination knob feels a little mushy and it has stopped halfway between a setting a few times.
Not sure if thats just my sample however and I'm not ready to hit vortex up on it yet because they will probably want me to send it in and I'm having too much fun playing with it LOL.

Anyways if you have some time behind the two I would love to know more about what makes you prefer the NX8 at 1x since like i said i have not had the pleasure of shooting both yet and the NX8 was what I was dead set on before the razor came out...

 

[ormandj]

The nx8 gets much brighter than the g3 when it comes to illumination. Which makes it a better “red dot” in my opinion. When it comes to field of view POV edge thickness yes the razor is better but it’s a piss poor reticle if your battery were to die on 1x where the nx8 has a great 1x black reticle. That’s the major downfall of the g3

In case it’s useful, to my eyes, in all lighting conditions I’ve experienced in Texas, I have never had to run the G3 at maximum illumination levels. So from my perspective, something being even brighter is immaterial if the G3 can already get too bright for Texas sun. It might be different in a snowy region.

 

[The King]

I have run the NX8 and the Razor side by side. Note I speak of the 1-10 razor not the 1-6.

The NX8 has brightness settings above comfort levels and so does the Razor. I consider an optic bright enough when it works against daytime snow with sunglasses on.

Both optics do this.

The 1-10 kicks the ever loving shit out of the NX8 at all other things. Mostly because the NX8 is meant to compare to the 1-6 Razor and competes there cost and performance wise.

The 1-10 Razor is targeting the ATACR 1-8 instead, and cost/perf wise it’s very competitive or superior to the ATACR.

 

[deersniper]

I hear great things about the Vudu 1-6 sfp

Have a couple nx8 1.8s that I like.

 

[RTV]

I have run the NX8 and the Razor side by side. Note I speak of the 1-10 razor not the 1-6.

The NX8 has brightness settings above comfort levels and so does the Razor. I consider an optic bright enough when it works against daytime snow with sunglasses on.

Both optics do this.

The 1-10 kicks the ever loving shit out of the NX8 at all other things. Mostly because the NX8 is meant to compare to the 1-6 Razor and competes there cost and performance wise.

The 1-10 Razor is targeting the ATACR 1-8 instead, and cost/perf wise it’s very competitive or superior to the ATACR.

have you noticed your illumination turret being a bit mushier than the other ones and stopping in between settings sometimes?

 

[The King]

A little. most likely to do with it being the locking one.

have you noticed your illumination turret being a bit mushier than the other ones and stopping in between settings sometimes?

 

[schlaiek]

the Elcan has always peaked my interest but I've never had the opportunity to handle one let alone shoot with one. how forgiving is the eyebox vs a good LVPO and vs. a T2? does the eye relief shift when moving between 1x & 4x? how usable is the reticle when not illuminated? is it daylight bright @ 1x?

 

[RyanScott]

The Elcan at 1x is basically a huge red dot. It’s faster than a Micro. A little more sensitive to head positioning. I’m trying to get a buddy to make me a 1.7 or 1.93” mount and then it’ll be almost perfect.

 

[LeftyJason]

Great feedback here from the group. I do have an EOTech EXPS 3 currently, so I'm really leaning away from any sort of red dot at the moment. The EOTech has worked well enough, and should I determine that the LPVO/Elcan game isn't working, I can just switch right back.

Looks like the consensus here is Razor (Gen 3) or Elcan... 10x would no doubt be overkill, and it seems that the Elcan would handle/balance better on the 10.3in barrel, which is a real concern.

Honestly at this point it feels like Im splitting hairs between the two, and it may just come down to the right deal at the right time.

I would listen to Koshkin. He knows optics pretty well.
Check out his YouTube.

Dark Lord Of Optics

Most of what you will see here are some random (and not so random) thoughts on sporting optics of all sorts. I will also intersperse these with other gun rel...

www.youtube.com

His DLO live episodes 3 and 6 sorta apply.

 

[Happiness Is A Warm Gun]

I would listen to Koshkin. He knows optics pretty well.
Check out his YouTube.

Dark Lord Of Optics

Most of what you will see here are some random (and not so random) thoughts on sporting optics of all sorts. I will also intersperse these with other gun rel...

www.youtube.com

His DLO live episodes 3 and 6 sorta apply.

I really enjoy watching his videos.

 

[hypno02]

Have you tried both personally?

I cannot compare to an NX8 however in my experience with the G3 the reticle is very usable at 1x without illumination and there are a few reviews floating around about how you can use the three thick lines to bracket targets even if its not quite as fast with the dot and that has been my expirence as well that it has been quite easy to use without illumination.

As far as brightness goes the brightest real world setting i have tested in was a particularly bright and sunny day with a fresh coat of snow on the ground reflecting the light everywhere. It was uncomfortably bright for my naked eye but I could still easily and very usable see the dot.

The only other condition I can think of that might thwart this optic is facing the sun during the evening when its shinning in your eyes and blinding you which I hope to test out soon.

If I had one complaint about this optic its that the illumination knob feels a little mushy and it has stopped halfway between a setting a few times.
Not sure if thats just my sample however and I'm not ready to hit vortex up on it yet because they will probably want me to send it in and I'm having too much fun playing with it LOL.

Anyways if you have some time behind the two I would love to know more about what makes you prefer the NX8 at 1x since like i said i have not had the pleasure of shooting both yet and the NX8 was what I was dead set on before the razor came out...

I have had both. I once owned a c599 nx8 as well as a g3 1-10 mil. The nx8 was the brightest lpvo I’ve ever seen. Hand down not even close. It’s almost eotech bright. The dot literally jumps at you at 15yds indoors under a 1000 Lumen surefire.

The g3,atacr, and Mk6’s I’ve owned are not that bright. There’s a clear difference.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

I have never liked the Elcan, it has way to many drawbacks and the beancounters at SOCOM must have been the Obama gloryhole types to select that for the program.

The G3 Razor and S&B SD CC are the best SBR and general purpose carbine optics at the moment IMO. It comes down to do you want to spend $1700 or $4400.

 

[Spydey225]

I appreciate all of the feedback... for my purposes looks like I might be holding out for the G3 Razor. I figure it'll compliment my EOTech nicely, should I determine that I don't like the way it balances on the SBR. Seems that Id be disappointed with the fast 1x performance of the NX8, and I also worry about some of the antiquated features the Elcan has. Seems that in today's world there are just simply better options.

 

[rockwind1]

does anyone just use like magpul 45 offset buis along with a lpvo? or is a rmr style red dot the only way to go?

and i have a nx8 and a elcan 1-6,, i like them both,, elcan is nice and small (it's not variable)

 

[Spydey225]

Im sure someone out there is running offset BUIS, but the lack of weight for an RMR seems to make it sort of a no brainer for a buckup sighting system.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

does anyone just use like magpul 45 offset buis along with a lpvo? or is a rmr style red dot the only way to go?

and i have a nx8 and a elcan 1-6,, i like them both,, elcan is nice and small (it's not variable)

BUIS are obsolete and RMR as a backup sight is not needed on a proper LPV

 

[hypno02]

BUIS are obsolete and RMR as a backup sight is not needed on a proper LPV

Mini red dots I agree are making BUIS more and more obsolete. However, a “Proper LPV” does not eliminate the need for a backup sighting system.

That’s just stupid.

 

[squishee]

One could easily consider a lpvo to be a backup to buis.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Elcan has the “cool” factor but eye relief is short for my liking. I have one on a scar 16 but hardly ever shoot the gun so don’t have a ton of shooter advice for you. Had a buddy try it on his Seekins ar and decided it wasn’t his cup of tea because of eye relief

 

[Zane1844]

I had an Elcan on my 10.3" but I sold it for a T2. I regret selling it now since I have range that goes 300m+ plus, but the T2 does everything I need.

Elcan didn't feel heavy for a LPVO, you don't need batteries unless you're shooting in low light, and I liked the reticle. The glass and FOV is amazing.

I really want an Elcan for a 12.5" do it all build.

 

[hypno02]

One could easily consider a lpvo to be a backup to buis.

What?

 

[squishee]

Swallowed the hook on that one didnt ya?

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Mini red dots I agree are making BUIS more and more obsolete. However, a “Proper LPV” does not eliminate the need for a backup sighting system.

That’s just stupid.

Yes it does. They are as reliable as an acog which also needs no buis.

Backup sighting system of proven optics is a waste of time and money, they never get used.

Dont get used in combat and they dont get used on some civilian rifle that lives in a safe.

You do not know what your talking about.

 

[hypno02]

Yes it does. They are as reliable as an acog which also needs no buis.

Backup sighting system of proven optics is a waste of time and money, they never get used.

Dont get used in combat and they dont get used on some civilian rifle that lives in a safe.

You do not know what your talking about.

Ahh ok you’re one of those who thinks that top dollar shit that’s proven doesn’t break. Ok got it.

Dumb.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Ahh ok you’re one of those who thinks that top dollar shit that’s proven doesn’t break. Ok got it.

Dumb.

How much time you got in a combat zone plumbing on guns?
Didn’t think so.

Some of us have been there done that. Others read about it.

 

[Spydey225]

There are plenty of dudes, in combat zones, running offset RMR/Aimpoints in conjunction with LPVOs... Is it necessary? Eh, depends. But there's a lot of talk nowadays about the efficiency of using a canted red dot and leaving the LPVO at a higher magnification as its faster than taking your hands off the gun and trying to adjust the magnification.... this is coming from guys that have been doing this at a very high level, in actual combat.

Not that I have any dog in this fight, but to say that offset red dots don't have their place is a bit extreme. Niche, yes... but its all about the philosophy and method of use.

 

[YammyMonkey]

I'm running a K16i on my work 11.5" SBR with a can and a 45° RMR. Both optics are in 2.03" mounts. The tall mounts make life a lot easier with a gas mask. The Kahles is a lot lighter than the Vortex and the glass is phenomenal. The rifle still handles very well, even with the extra weight.

On patrol I leave the LPVO at 6x and use the RMR the primary for close work and the scope for spotting on perimeters. This way I can quickly go from 1x to 6x by simply shifting the gun in my shoulder. No need to move my hand to the scope.

On SWAT hits I'll dial the LPVO down to 1x, but the RMR is still my primary on entry. Because of the way the stock interacts with my heavy armor, the gun naturally settles in really close to 45°.

On barricades is where the all or nothing magnification argument falls apart. I'll dial in whatever mag I need to see what I need to see. I'll dial it up to look into windows, through fence picket gaps, under cars, etc. I'll dial it to the mid range to get a good view of my whole area of responsibility. On our last barricade I was watching two windows on the second story, so I set the mag to where I could just barely see both windows. I'd periodically go up to 6x to get a better view into the windows, then back out for general observation. For actual work, there is a lot of value in the mid range.

 

[Spydey225]

@YammyMonkey that was precisely the point I was trying to make as well. Depending on the context, there is a lot of merit in a 45 degree red dot besides just being used as "in case my LPVO fails"

 

[YammyMonkey]

@YammyMonkey that was precisely the point I was trying to make as well. Depending on the context, there is a lot of merit in a 45 degree red dot besides just being used as "in case my LPVO fails"

Little cross-posting. Definitely agree.