What is the general concensus on barrel length and twist running suppressed/subs. and full power loads ?
Any preferred Brand Upper ?
Any preferred Brand Upper ?
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SBR Preferences ?
- Thread starter Twisted .308
- Start date
Re: SBR Preferences ?
If you are going to suppress I wouldn't go less than 10" due to suppressor warranty. Although I think Thunderbeast had one for less than 10". I run a Noveske 10.5" in 6.8mm and a 12.5" Noveske 223. I run an AAC M4-2000 on the 223 and it runs awesome.
If you are going to suppress I wouldn't go less than 10" due to suppressor warranty. Although I think Thunderbeast had one for less than 10". I run a Noveske 10.5" in 6.8mm and a 12.5" Noveske 223. I run an AAC M4-2000 on the 223 and it runs awesome.
Re: SBR Preferences ?
What does SBR mean?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Garandcar.jpg/800px-Garandcar.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/FAL_IMG_1528.jpg/220px-FAL_IMG_1528.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...A1_407mm_03.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/M4A1-CQBR.jpg
A carbine ( /ˈkɑrbiːn/ or /ˈkɑrbaɪn/[1]), from French carabine,[2] is a longarm similar to but shorter than a rifle or musket. Many carbines are shortened versions of full rifles, firing the same ammunition at a lower velocity due to a shorter barrel length.
Therefore, you must mean carbine, and not SBR!
"SBR" is like legislature. We have plenty already if we just enforce it. No need to make up a new name when there already is one that works. Carbine.
What does SBR mean?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Garandcar.jpg/800px-Garandcar.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/FAL_IMG_1528.jpg/220px-FAL_IMG_1528.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...A1_407mm_03.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/M4A1-CQBR.jpg
A carbine ( /ˈkɑrbiːn/ or /ˈkɑrbaɪn/[1]), from French carabine,[2] is a longarm similar to but shorter than a rifle or musket. Many carbines are shortened versions of full rifles, firing the same ammunition at a lower velocity due to a shorter barrel length.
Therefore, you must mean carbine, and not SBR!
"SBR" is like legislature. We have plenty already if we just enforce it. No need to make up a new name when there already is one that works. Carbine.
Re: SBR Preferences ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: croft32</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does SBR mean? </div></div>
Short Barrel Rifle</div></div> he is joking
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: croft32</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does SBR mean? </div></div>
Short Barrel Rifle</div></div> he is joking
Re: SBR Preferences ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: croft32</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does SBR mean? </div></div>
Short Barrel Rifle </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: croft32</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What does SBR mean? </div></div>
Short Barrel Rifle </div></div>
Re: SBR Preferences ?
i've got a couple 556mm suppressed sbr's most i've seen are 10.5" with 1-9twst... both mine are.
i've got a couple 556mm suppressed sbr's most i've seen are 10.5" with 1-9twst... both mine are.
Re: SBR Preferences ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twisted .308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the general concensus on barrel length and twist running suppressed/subs. and full power loads ?
Any preferred Brand Upper ? </div></div>
What caliber and what application?
5.56/.223 - I want 1x9 or 1x8 with something more then 10.5 inches. I'm leaning pretty heavily towards a 14.5" mid-length gas myself. Today, I'd generally stop at 12.5" to cut muzzle blast and report. 10.5" are just obnoxious and for me don't perform well with a lot of ammo.
300 AAC Blackout seems pretty nice at 8.0" with a 1x8 twist.
Brands? Noveske, Bravo (BCM), and Daniel Defense are where I put my money today. I'd be real happy with any of the better brands though. A KAC SR-25 EMC would make me real happy even though it's not an SBR.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twisted .308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the general concensus on barrel length and twist running suppressed/subs. and full power loads ?
Any preferred Brand Upper ? </div></div>
What caliber and what application?
5.56/.223 - I want 1x9 or 1x8 with something more then 10.5 inches. I'm leaning pretty heavily towards a 14.5" mid-length gas myself. Today, I'd generally stop at 12.5" to cut muzzle blast and report. 10.5" are just obnoxious and for me don't perform well with a lot of ammo.
300 AAC Blackout seems pretty nice at 8.0" with a 1x8 twist.
Brands? Noveske, Bravo (BCM), and Daniel Defense are where I put my money today. I'd be real happy with any of the better brands though. A KAC SR-25 EMC would make me real happy even though it's not an SBR.
Re: SBR Preferences ?
I have a Colt 6933 (11.5" 1/7 barrel) that has thousands of flawless rounds through it, both plinking and match, 55gr, 62gr, 77gr, suppressed and unsuppressed, shot a number of courses with it, very easy to shoot man sized torso at 200 yards with both an Aimpoint T1 or iron sights (factory front sight post and Troy folding rear sight), shorter barrel makes it well balanced...it is my bed side weapon and I have full confidence in its operation.
For your first SBR carbine, I would not recommend going shorter than 11.5" for the same reasons mentioned above.
I have a Colt 6933 (11.5" 1/7 barrel) that has thousands of flawless rounds through it, both plinking and match, 55gr, 62gr, 77gr, suppressed and unsuppressed, shot a number of courses with it, very easy to shoot man sized torso at 200 yards with both an Aimpoint T1 or iron sights (factory front sight post and Troy folding rear sight), shorter barrel makes it well balanced...it is my bed side weapon and I have full confidence in its operation.
For your first SBR carbine, I would not recommend going shorter than 11.5" for the same reasons mentioned above.
Re: SBR Preferences ?
It is a .223 platform , looked at a few uppers, most are 1/9 twist and I figured i needed a faster rate for the subs.
Looks like from you guys posts 11.5" and up are the most reliable . I want to keep as short as possible though cause I got a Pistol lower setup I could also pin it on
It is a .223 platform , looked at a few uppers, most are 1/9 twist and I figured i needed a faster rate for the subs.
Looks like from you guys posts 11.5" and up are the most reliable . I want to keep as short as possible though cause I got a Pistol lower setup I could also pin it on
Re: SBR Preferences ?
A 10.5" will be reliable <span style="font-weight: bold">if it's built correctly</span> but generally will be harder on parts. I would get 1/7 or 1/8 twist barrel in a 10.5" if you wanted the most compact overall length, 12.5" for good terminal performance further out with most ammo, or an 11.5" for a compromise between the two. There is ammo out now that don't rely on fragmentation so take that FWIW.
I went with the Centurion Arms 12.5" barrel because of the accuracy reputation (I've had 3 barrels from Monty so far) and I think the length would be more popular if a stamp wasn't needed. When people think of getting an SBR, they usually want it to be worthwhile (meaning go as short as you can) but since it's not permanent I can switch to a different length any time if I wanted to.
Other good barrel choices are usual suspects such as Colt, Daniel Defense, BCM, LMT and Noveske.
I haven't read of any subsonic ammo that will cycle an AR or shoot worth a damn.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BravoCompanyUSA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Q: Why BCM chose the 11.5" SBR over the 10.5" </span>
I get this question a lot. It is a good one. When we spec our program we can build anything we would like, so we sat down and looked at the pros and cons.
First Statement: I know a good 10.5" SBR can run very well. I personally own a semi MK18 type and it runs great. No problems.
A: Dwell time.
Dwell time is the time that your gas operated weapon maintains pressure to continue the cycling of the weapon. It primarily exsists from the time the bullet passes the gas port in the barrel to the time the bullet exits the muzzle. When you pull the trigger and fire the weapon the movement of the bolt carrier group unlocks the bolt, extracts, and ejects the spent casing. Then it cocks the weapon, feeds, chambers the next round, and then locks again. One of the thing that can make SBRs finicky is the dwell time (or lack of).
The 11.5" carbine is approximately 4% longer weapon than its' 10.5" counterpart, but this extra inch gives the barrel a 40% increase in length for dwell time. IMHO, this is an excellent trade off. This additional dwell time (all other things being equal) will allow the carbine to be more forgiving to different ammo types, extremes in air temperature, weak or worn extractor springs, worn extractors, buffer weights, etc.
Last Statement: For those folks who have a 10.5" that works very well, I would reply; me too. (see first statement)
If I had to "go to war" with a AR15 Carbine, I would grab the BCM 11.5".
The BCM 11.5" Runs Like a Dream.
Hope this info helps,
Paul
</div></div>
A 10.5" will be reliable <span style="font-weight: bold">if it's built correctly</span> but generally will be harder on parts. I would get 1/7 or 1/8 twist barrel in a 10.5" if you wanted the most compact overall length, 12.5" for good terminal performance further out with most ammo, or an 11.5" for a compromise between the two. There is ammo out now that don't rely on fragmentation so take that FWIW.
I went with the Centurion Arms 12.5" barrel because of the accuracy reputation (I've had 3 barrels from Monty so far) and I think the length would be more popular if a stamp wasn't needed. When people think of getting an SBR, they usually want it to be worthwhile (meaning go as short as you can) but since it's not permanent I can switch to a different length any time if I wanted to.
Other good barrel choices are usual suspects such as Colt, Daniel Defense, BCM, LMT and Noveske.
I haven't read of any subsonic ammo that will cycle an AR or shoot worth a damn.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BravoCompanyUSA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Q: Why BCM chose the 11.5" SBR over the 10.5" </span>
I get this question a lot. It is a good one. When we spec our program we can build anything we would like, so we sat down and looked at the pros and cons.
First Statement: I know a good 10.5" SBR can run very well. I personally own a semi MK18 type and it runs great. No problems.
A: Dwell time.
Dwell time is the time that your gas operated weapon maintains pressure to continue the cycling of the weapon. It primarily exsists from the time the bullet passes the gas port in the barrel to the time the bullet exits the muzzle. When you pull the trigger and fire the weapon the movement of the bolt carrier group unlocks the bolt, extracts, and ejects the spent casing. Then it cocks the weapon, feeds, chambers the next round, and then locks again. One of the thing that can make SBRs finicky is the dwell time (or lack of).
The 11.5" carbine is approximately 4% longer weapon than its' 10.5" counterpart, but this extra inch gives the barrel a 40% increase in length for dwell time. IMHO, this is an excellent trade off. This additional dwell time (all other things being equal) will allow the carbine to be more forgiving to different ammo types, extremes in air temperature, weak or worn extractor springs, worn extractors, buffer weights, etc.
Last Statement: For those folks who have a 10.5" that works very well, I would reply; me too. (see first statement)
If I had to "go to war" with a AR15 Carbine, I would grab the BCM 11.5".
The BCM 11.5" Runs Like a Dream.
Hope this info helps,
Paul
</div></div>
Re: SBR Preferences ?
I run the MK 18 from Noveske but switched out to the 12.5 SS barrel and switch block this set up was just used at our Sniper Class and was no problem hitting out to 660yrds. but with out the supressor it is very very loud. Very very good shooter.
I run the MK 18 from Noveske but switched out to the 12.5 SS barrel and switch block this set up was just used at our Sniper Class and was no problem hitting out to 660yrds. but with out the supressor it is very very loud. Very very good shooter.
Re: SBR Preferences ?
Noveske 6.8 10.5" SBR's x 2 with M4-2000's.
Good to go to 700 yds where my NF compacts
run out of uptravel.
But...unsuppressed the noise is a significant issue.
If I shoot 100 or so rounds on close target drills
unsuppressed my head hurts for awhile after, even
with plugs under muffs.
Noveske 6.8 10.5" SBR's x 2 with M4-2000's.
Good to go to 700 yds where my NF compacts
run out of uptravel.
But...unsuppressed the noise is a significant issue.
If I shoot 100 or so rounds on close target drills
unsuppressed my head hurts for awhile after, even
with plugs under muffs.
Re: SBR Preferences ?
For those complaining about noise, are you using brakes? I use a plain A2 and my ears are fine even in an enclosed bay.
For those complaining about noise, are you using brakes? I use a plain A2 and my ears are fine even in an enclosed bay.
Re: SBR Preferences ?
I have a 10.5 LWRC in 5.56,14.5 LMT in 5.56, 12.5 Noveske in 6.8 and 14.5 LMT in 6.8 and all 4 of those guns run. As long as you are running a good upper and a correct buffer setup they should run just fine. My LWRC 10.5 has around 6-7K rounds through it since the beginning of the year and I have had a total of 2 malfunctions both magazine related and that was at a shooting course where I put 2,500 rounds through it in 2 days.
I have a 10.5 LWRC in 5.56,14.5 LMT in 5.56, 12.5 Noveske in 6.8 and 14.5 LMT in 6.8 and all 4 of those guns run. As long as you are running a good upper and a correct buffer setup they should run just fine. My LWRC 10.5 has around 6-7K rounds through it since the beginning of the year and I have had a total of 2 malfunctions both magazine related and that was at a shooting course where I put 2,500 rounds through it in 2 days.
Re: SBR Preferences ?
I built a 10.5" BCM upper/RRA lower with a 1:7 twist. I have about 1k rounds through it and it's been a pleasure to shoot. I have the YHM phantom flash supp on it; while it doesn't do much for concussion, i don't find it uncomfortable to shoot.
The only issues i've had with it have been shooting the cheap steel cased junk. It hates it. I fte every other round when i shoot it. anything else (brass, usually xm193, xm855, or pmc) shoots great.
I built a 10.5" BCM upper/RRA lower with a 1:7 twist. I have about 1k rounds through it and it's been a pleasure to shoot. I have the YHM phantom flash supp on it; while it doesn't do much for concussion, i don't find it uncomfortable to shoot.
The only issues i've had with it have been shooting the cheap steel cased junk. It hates it. I fte every other round when i shoot it. anything else (brass, usually xm193, xm855, or pmc) shoots great.
Re: SBR Preferences ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BayouRobert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Noveske 6.8 10.5" SBR's x 2 with M4-2000's.
Good to go to 700 yds where my NF compacts
run out of uptravel.
But...unsuppressed the noise is a significant issue.
If I shoot 100 or so rounds on close target drills
unsuppressed my head hurts for awhile after, even
with plugs under muffs. </div></div> I need video of you using a Shorty 6.8mm to hit at 700 yards. I just don't see it happening.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BayouRobert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Noveske 6.8 10.5" SBR's x 2 with M4-2000's.
Good to go to 700 yds where my NF compacts
run out of uptravel.
But...unsuppressed the noise is a significant issue.
If I shoot 100 or so rounds on close target drills
unsuppressed my head hurts for awhile after, even
with plugs under muffs. </div></div> I need video of you using a Shorty 6.8mm to hit at 700 yards. I just don't see it happening.
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