Scar 16 vs APC 223 vs Bren 2MS

[LilGucci]

Which would you rather own? I'm looking to add a rifle to my collection that shoots 556 but I don't want another AR-15, and I don't want an AK in 556 either. I like bullpups but not in semi-auto's that shoot 556.

So I'm looking for an AR-18 type gun. I've always wanted a Scar, and more recently was turned on by the B&T APC223 but both of those are kind of spendy ($3000-3500). The CZ Bren 2 MS looks kind of nice and can be had for under $2500.



If it was your money, which of these 3 rifles would you rather have and why?

 

[LilGucci]

Kind of leaning a little towards the Bren 2 MS. However, the 2 MOA average is kind of a turnoff.

 

[craigos]

apc - have 3 apc - swiss quality.

 

[theLBC]

hk mr556a1 or the scar would be my choices, but i prefer piston driven rifles.

 

[GUNNER10]

View attachment 7430559

Which would you rather own? I'm looking to add a rifle to my collection that shoots 556 but I don't want another AR-15, and I don't want an AK in 556 either. I like bullpups but not in semi-auto's that shoot 556.

So I'm looking for an AR-18 type gun. I've always wanted a Scar, and more recently was turned on by the B&T APC223 but both of those are kind of spendy ($3000-3500). The CZ Bren 2 MS looks kind of nice and can be had for under $2500.



If it was your money, which of these 3 rifles would you rather have and why?

Whille I dont have any of the 556 AR18 off shoots, I do have a Scar 17 and after shooting it next to my SR25, and MWS, I am really not too impressed with the Scar. I love FN as a company, but for the money The Scars trigger is trash, every part is a different shade of FDE, and it has plastic side rails, and Spare barrels are over a grand. At best its a 1200 dollar rifle.

In regards to the B&T and CZ I think they are pretty comparable. I would venture that the Swiss gun is a little more refined but I think that CZ is a little ahead in the development cycle as they are support 556,762x39 and 300blk. I see that both companies are having teething problems but would be completly confident in any issues being addressed.

In the end I would lean towards a CZ in 7.62 but the B&T in 556 or 300blk. Both look like also little carbines

 

[TheOE800]

I like my SCAR 16, but the platform is poorly supported, maybe not as poorly as the APC though. The CZ is the best supported from a casual glance.

 

[Longshot85]

Tagging in to hear these awesome first hand experiences

If I'm correct a lot of the upper parts on the Brent can be used with a different lower and bolt with 308...this true?

 

[scrumpdeleos]

I had a scar 16 and sold it (regretting that now given their prices). I was not that impressed. I do have a B&T APC9 and am blown away with the quality and function of the weapon. I think it will come down to handling all 3 and seeing what feels best for you. Good luck on finding 3 at once though lol.

 

[Tonsofguns]

ive owned the bren 1, scar 16, and still own apc 300.

quality on the apc is above and beyond the scar and the bren. Some of the best machining i've seen on a factory gun, if not the best. I have a san swiss on the way so that might give it a run for it's money. Bottom line, swiss machining is on another level.
Gun is rather heavy for a 9 inch barrel, but shoots smooth, factory trigger is good, and seems accurate enough.
The scar 16 is fine, and offers a different recoil impulse than an ar 15, but it just didn't do it for me. I still have a 17 though, and that will stay in the collection.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

ive owned the bren 1, scar 16, and still own apc 300.

quality on the apc is above and beyond the scar and the bren. Some of the best machining i've seen on a factory gun, if not the best. I have a san swiss on the way so that might give it a run for it's money. Bottom line, swiss machining is on another level.
Gun is rather heavy for a 9 inch barrel, but shoots smooth, factory trigger is good, and seems accurate enough.
The scar 16 is fine, and offers a different recoil impulse than an ar 15, but it just didn't do it for me. I still have a 17 though, and that will stay in the collection.

No doubt. Much like watches, the Swiss make some of the best rifles in the world. Which model 550-series did you get? Or did you go full baller and grab the SG 751? Either way, if @MSTN ‘s advice is anything to go by, the Swiss Arms will probably become your favorite rifle. Wish I could afford one, they’re fckn awesome!

 

[Tonsofguns]

No doubt. Much like watches, the Swiss make some of the best rifles in the world. Which model 550-series did you get? Or did you go full baller and grab the SG 751? Either way, if @MSTN ‘s advice is anything to go by, the Swiss Arms will probably become your favorite rifle. Wish I could afford one, they’re fckn awesome!

I got the sapr 751 in 6.5 creed with a 22 inch barrel. October will mark officially two years of wait for the rifle and it should arrive any day can’t wait.
With the San Swiss 751 you could literally flip it and almost double your money. No one wants to wait two years for a rifle. The 550 series have a much shorter waiting time and probably more practical
Swiss rifles are the best quality followed by German Imo

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I got the sapr 751 in 6.5 creed with a 22 inch barrel. October will mark officially two years of wait for the rifle and it should arrive any day can’t wait.
With the San Swiss 751 you could literally flip it and almost double your money. No one wants to wait two years for a rifle. The 550 series have a much shorter waiting time and probably more practical
Swiss rifles are the best quality followed by German Imo

Daammnnn you went ultra full baller!!! You absolutely gotta do an entire run down when that masterpiece arrives! Congrats sir, IMO you officially will be the owner of the coolest most badass gas gun on the ‘hide.
What glass you planning for it? Plan to suppress it?

Btw do you know what effect the new Swiss gun control law will have on rifle manufacturing there? Is it gonna shut them down??

 

[Tonsofguns]

Yeah def excited. The problem with buying new guns though is that the high does not last. The chase of finding them is usually the best part. After a month thehigh runs out and you need your new fix of guns.

With glass I’ll probably stay true to Swiss military and go Schmidt and bender. Most likely a 3-20 or a 5-20 short. I’ll throw pics when I get it.

Opp def consider a San Swiss 550 series if you want a high quality firearm. You can order one though jdi imports

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Yeah def excited. The problem with buying new guns though is that the high does not last. The chase of finding them is usually the best part. After a month thehigh runs out and you need your new fix of guns.

With glass I’ll probably stay true to Swiss military and go Schmidt and bender. Most likely a 3-20 or a 5-20 short. I’ll throw pics when I get it.

Opp def consider a San Swiss 550 series if you want a high quality firearm. You can order one though jdi imports

I’d give my left nut for one! If I wasn’t a broke recent college grad I’d have one LOL

 

[scrumpdeleos]

So i just looked up what a san swiss 751 is..... OHMUHGAWD. That is 100% going on the want list!

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

So i just looked up what a san swiss 751 is..... OHMUHGAWD. That is 100% going on the want list!

They’re fckn amazing. Even if it meant I could only own 1 gas gun I’d take it in a heartbeat

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Speaking of which, @LilGucci if you actually live up to your username and become a true baller, to hell with those other rifles! Just get a Swiss Arms 551, 552, or 553! You’ll be far better off and miles ahead by just biting the bullet and buying the coolest most badass piece of precision Swiss engineering right now..

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

 

[scrumpdeleos]

Hnnnnnnnnnng

 

[Tonsofguns]

There are some 300 blackouts available at Jdi for those interested

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

There are some 300 blackouts available at Jdi for those interested

Do the 552/553 have a different gas system length than the 551 and 550?

 

[Strykervet]

Get the APC and don't look back. I think .308 or .300BLK would be the better choice but it's up to you.

 

[SneakyHenry]

I know this post is a little bit old but I have a Bren 2s in 7.62x39mm, I have an APC 223 and I sold a SCAR 16 (regrettably only because of the prices now).

I will say the BREN 2 in 7.62x39 has had many issues and after 5,000 rounds the parts wear has been substantial at least looking at owners and their thought on the CZ forum. My SCAR 16 just didn't feel right it was accurate and definitely reliable, but since it didn't fit me quite right I sold it. I bought a APC 223 and I love it! It is accurate, reliable and built just like the SCAR system but more refined and better machined for sure in the bolt, bolt carrier and upper receiver sections of the APC 223. I also have an APC 308 and a SCAR 17 and I prefer the SCAR 17 over the APC 308 for now anyway but I haven't shot the APC 308 much. However, in 5.56 the APC 223 I prefer much more than the SCAR 16s because of said results above.

 

[roostercogburn98]

The scar is an overpriced terd, but they keep getting attention because they look cool.

 

[Tonsofguns]

The scar is an overpriced terd, but they keep getting attention because they look cool.

Battlefield Vegas which put 200k rounds in full auto through one of their scar 16s, while only replacing rings and springs, might disagree with you.

With regards to the Bren, I’ve never owned one and everyone said it would be a scar killer but issues are surfacing left and right with build quality, parts breaking, and malfunctions

 

[roostercogburn98]

@Tonsofguns
Never said it wasn’t a reliable shooter. Said it was an overpriced terd. Clunky, awkward, reciprocating charging handle aka knuckle buster, shitty trigger over priced terd.

 

[Tonsofguns]

Maybe turd wasn’t the right wording.
I do agree that ergonomics aren’t ideal, especially if you have a lot of experience slinging lead out of ar platform rifles.

Don’t know why people complain about the reciprocating charging handle on it, but are fine with the charging handle on their aks and other rifles.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Maybe turd wasn’t the right wording.
I do agree that ergonomics aren’t ideal, especially if you have a lot of experience slinging lead out of ar platform rifles.

Don’t know why people complain about the reciprocating charging handle on it, but are fine with the charging handle on their aks and other rifles.

I’d be good with the recip CH, if it folded or wasn’t as far forward as it is on the platform. I guess my biggest issue with CH is the location in general and how it’s hard to rack it without banging into your optic mount. For what they charge for one, you’d think there would have been just a little more thought into how the location was going to impact functions somewhat. Guessing polished terd isn’t the right word either?

 

[Tonsofguns]

I typically will run a slanted charging handle to deal with that issue or even reverse the mount. After running a half dozen optics on my scar I’ve decide the acog rmr is my preferred set up, and since the optic is so close forward and with that slanted handle I never have that issue or hitting knuckles anymore (yea it sucks).

For me my scar would never be a go to rifle, as I can’t manipulate as quickly and precisely as my ars. I sometimes drop the mag on reloads, due to the placement of controls. Also the recoil impulse is slightly different. Where an ar recoils up and to the side the scar recoils more straight up. Not a bad thing but not used to it, so I can’t shoot it as quickly and accurately when firing strings.
Bottom line I’ve only put maybe 3-4K rounds in a scar versus like 70-80k through ar platform rifles, so it’s what i am most used to.
Hard to teach old dogs new tricks
Overall things I do like about it lightweight for a 308, accurate, durable and yes it looks amazing

 

[roostercogburn98]

You got me beat by a mile on the scar round count. I’ve had mine since 08 when it first hit the market, and I have about about 500-800 rounds through it. It is currently topped with an elcan specter and collects dust in the safe.

I’m much more comfortable with the ar platform as well, and have countless rounds on it. Spent most of my adult life counting on one and it has just stuck with me. Maybe I’ll look into changing the scar up and seeing if it sits better with me after that. I’d not, the kids like it so it’ll stay in the safe until they get tired of it.

 

[Tonsofguns]

Frankly I’ve owned a handful of scars over the years, and this most recent 17 has barely been shot. It mostly collects dust.

These 3 rifles (scar 17, apc 300, and San Swiss 300) would be some of the last self defense rifles I would pull out of my safe, but they are also the pride of my collection.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I know this post is a little bit old but I have a Bren 2s in 7.62x39mm, I have an APC 223 and I sold a SCAR 16 (regrettably only because of the prices now).

I will say the BREN 2 in 7.62x39 has had many issues and after 5,000 rounds the parts wear has been substantial at least looking at owners and their thought on the CZ forum. My SCAR 16 just didn't feel right it was accurate and definitely reliable, but since it didn't fit me quite right I sold it. I bought a APC 223 and I love it! It is accurate, reliable and built just like the SCAR system but more refined and better machined for sure in the bolt, bolt carrier and upper receiver sections of the APC 223. I also have an APC 308 and a SCAR 17 and I prefer the SCAR 17 over the APC 308 for now anyway but I haven't shot the APC 308 much. However, in 5.56 the APC 223 I prefer much more than the SCAR 16s because of said results above.

Why prefer SCAR 17 vs APC308?

 

[shoobe01]

I just want the BREN 2 in .308 to come to the US civilian market to complicate my life more when I finally have money (vs spending it all on orthodontics) to put into a precision rifle platform.

Since I cannot possibly afford a 751. Love my 556/551 more than my children, but man the 751s are out of hand expensive.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Frankly I’ve owned a handful of scars over the years, and this most recent 17 has barely been shot. It mostly collects dust.

These 3 rifles (scar 17, apc 300, and San Swiss 300) would be some of the last self defense rifles I would pull out of my safe, but they are also the pride of my collection.

I wouldn’t buy another scar if I let this one go honestly. Had a Sig 556, couple of roller guns, ak47 and 74 variants. Like the look of the Bren, so maybe that would be the next try. Like the look of the Galil Ace as well so who knows. Had to pull the 16 out and evict the dust bunny family after this convo.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I still say y’all just should get a Swiss Arms SG551(or SG553 if wanting Mk 18 size, SG550 For M16 size, and SG 750/751 for .308 versions of rifle/carbine) and forget about it, while you still can. Doubtful there will be any more batches coming to USA than what JDI has currently imported with the new Swiss gun control laws coming. Think AI/Cadex/etc level quality in a gas gun combat carbine/rifle, if not higher.
Just take a look at where many/most of the best precision rifles in the world came from- Switzerland(Bleiker, Grunig & Elmiger, Tanner, Hammerli, etc).
HOWEVER, I think most would agree best barrels are still made right here in USA.

 

[Tonsofguns]

I wouldn’t buy another scar if I let this one go honestly. Had a Sig 556, couple of roller guns, ak47 and 74 variants. Like the look of the Bren, so maybe that would be the next try. Like the look of the Galil Ace as well so who knows. Had to pull the 16 out and evict the dust bunny family after this convo.
View attachment 7470898

Very nice, you can tell from the colors that it is an earlier version.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I wouldn’t buy another scar if I let this one go honestly. Had a Sig 556, couple of roller guns, ak47 and 74 variants. Like the look of the Bren, so maybe that would be the next try. Like the look of the Galil Ace as well so who knows. Had to pull the 16 out and evict the dust bunny family after this convo.
View attachment 7470898

The Galil Ace is definitely intriguing, not quite the cool factor of a Spetsnaz Alfa group AK SBR 5.45 clone, but all of the necessary features(and more) and much less pricey/difficult to obtain.
If I wanted a quality 7.62x39 right now, hands down I’d be going with a Ace. It’d be a difficult choice because a Arsenal decked out with a Zentico(or other rail) + red dot & magnifier, stock adapter, for end, etc just oozes “COOL”

 

[roostercogburn98]

If I understand the world and how they released. Serial numbers started at 10,000? Somebody please feel free to correct me if they know better though. This one is 10,5XX

 

[roostercogburn98]

The Galil Ace is definitely intriguing, not quite the cool factor of a Spetsnaz Alfa group AK SBR 5.45 clone, but all of the necessary features(and more) and much less pricey/difficult to obtain.
If I wanted a quality 7.62x39 right now, hands down I’d be going with a Ace. It’d be a difficult choice because a Arsenal decked out with a Zentico(or other rail) + red dot & magnifier, stock adapter, for end, etc just oozes “COOL”

The Ace has always spoke to me for whatever reason. I’ve talked myself out of one a few times, last time I ended up with an Omega OM9-RS. Maybe next time I won’t be so gullible and just by an Ace to see how it plays. My current x39 fix is covered by a 7.5 inch barreled ar platform. She shoots pretty dang good after some fine tuning.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

The Ace has always spoke to me for whatever reason. I’ve talked myself out of one a few times, last time I ended up with an Omega OM9-RS. Maybe next time I won’t be so gullible and just by an Ace to see how it plays. My current x39 fix is covered by a 7.5 inch barreled ar platform. She shoots pretty dang good after some fine tuning.

NICE!!!! Pics of the OM9? Details:.. Stock or brace? Can..?? etc...?

Idk why but a x39 just dont seem right IMO. Id prefer a round the rifle was intended/designed for in my rifles(re: gas guns) for the most part. JMO!!

Dont forget the Finn Valmets either! Finest quality "AK" in the world..

 

[roostercogburn98]

Sold this guy earlier this year but it was fun while it lasted. The OM9 had a brace and one of those binary triggers in it. Made it pretty fun. Turns out, I liked my sbr 9mm ar better. I have a funky sub can rated can that I used for both that is pretty quiet with 124g bullets.

Believe it or not, I built the x39 ar just to see if I could get one to run reliably. Once I got it tuned and going, I just kind of liked it. It ended up as my truck gun and has been there since completion

 

[SneakyHenry]

Why prefer SCAR 17 vs APC308?

I prefer the SCAR 17 over the APC 308 for a very simple reason. I've had my SCAR a long time and when it comes to hunting (what I use my 308's for primarily, the SCAR always get the job done) it works and works well. I haven't had enough trigger time on the APC 308. I know it'd do just as good, if not better than the SCAR 17 but why shy away from something that has always worked? I got my APC 308 for an extra hunting gun because my wife stole my SCAR 17 for hunting, but since we have a newborn, she wasn't able to hunt this year. I will say once I get more trigger time, I will be using the APC 308 to hunt with and the APC 308 is extremely accurate and reliable. However, I do need a trigger upgrade.

 

[SneakyHenry]

Maybe turd wasn’t the right wording.
I do agree that ergonomics aren’t ideal, especially if you have a lot of experience slinging lead out of ar platform rifles.

Don’t know why people complain about the reciprocating charging handle on it, but are fine with the charging handle on their aks and other rifles.

I couldn’t agree more! The SCAR 16s if you shoot it non stop, is actually the cheapest rifle to own because nothing breaks. I decided to purchase an early model SCAR 16 just because of this. I regret selling it in the first place but I still enjoy the APC 223 more.