Scenar vs Matchking

[redleg1013]

I am just starting off in LR, and got a Savage 10 FCP-SR in 6.5 CM with the 24" bbl, after searching the threads I haven't found the answer so I'll go ahead and ask the newbie question: 123 Scenar vs 123 Matchking, what's the difference? What I mean by that is I was listening to the podcast and heard Frank talk about going "the other way" with bullet weights, and made mention of the 123 Scenars since they aren't jump sensitive (I thought that SMKs weren't either). I punched the numbers and atmosphereics for my location into JBM and the SMKs start to win out past 1000, it really only amounts to .5 MRAD in Sierra's favor at 1300 and 1.0 MRAD at a mile. The price difference at Midway is roughly $5, so why Lapua, is there a discernable difference that I overlooked or is it like a Michael Jordan thing?

So far my other rifles have liked SMKs and they're just a road trip away (granted Hornady is MUCH closer) but if there is a certain je ne sais quoi about them I'd like to hear about it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[BroncoMustang]

They are both good, and I would like to know the answer, too. Hopefully someone with knowledge or experience will reply.

 

[christopher.dow]

I have generally shot better groups with Scenars, Scenar-Ls, and Berger Hybrid Targets. There’s a post somewhere on the Hide from an experienced reloader saying he’s never had an out-of-round bullet from a green or blue box (I’m assuming Sierra and Lapua). My Match King loads are pretty close to the top, but not the best for me.

One thing about Scenars and Hybrid Targets is that they are both supposedly insensitive to jump, and there’rea lot of anecdotes on the Hide to that effect. I’m fiddling about with Nosler RDFs now and finding them pretty sensitive compared to Scenars and Hybrid Targets. Im going to try to get them 0.020” off the lands and see what happens.

 

[J McGriddle]

When I ran the drops for those the scenar was the best at 1000 then Sierra and then the 130 AR hybrid. The scenars are lasers to 1000 but I swear I shoot the better groups with Sierras. Maybe it's all in my head....

 

[christopher.dow]

When I ran the drops for those the scenar was the best at 1000 then Sierra and then the 130 AR hybrid. The scenars are lasers to 1000 but I swear I shoot the better groups with Sierras. Maybe it's all in my head....

I think they’re all pretty close. It’s not in you’re head. There are a lot of variables to track. That’s why I try to stay away from straight up opinions on this stuff, and stick to being specific about my experience.

I think it’s pretty cool that we have so many great choices!

 

[M113A3]

Chris - have you collected data at 100 yards or have you done 100 to 300 yards to see if there is any difference. Not sure if 300 is enough range to make a difference.

 

[christopher.dow]

Chris - have you collected data at 100 yards or have you done 100 to 300 yards to see if there is any difference. Not sure if 300 is enough range to make a difference.

The comparisons amongst the three were 100-300 yards, but I’ve taken Scenar-Ls to 1000, they were 100% after I figured windage. That’s what Jay is saying, too. I picked the Scenar-Ls over Sierra because of better group size (for me) 100-300.

 

[kansas]

I have had excellent luck with 139 Scenars in all of the .260s I’ve shot. I never had to tune them as my throat grew or as my barrel slowed down. I never considered shooting the lighter bullets. I’d take a look at doing that if the 139s didn’t perform so well but I don’t see a need to change. Scenars never had the best bc in their weight and class but that never seem to be a problem.

 

[ThePretzel]

I like the 123 SMK's out of 6.5 Creedmoor. Using RL-16 I got the below grouping with a velocity of 3110 fps, SD of 3 and ES of 6 for the 3 shots my LabRadar caught indoors.

I tested them out to a mile and they worked well considering they were dropping subsonic at around 1600-1700 yards based on the weather and elevation. Not much recoil with them either, compared to my heavy 147gr loads that I also use (147's at 2900 fps).

I personally wouldn't much bother with the 123gr Scenars, but that's just because the SMK's are good enough for me. I don't need to worry about benchrest performance for PRS, just cost (I shoot a lot) and external ballistics (which are functionally identical within 1000 yards for both of them). I like to shoot this 123 SMK load in a local match that only goes out to 600 yards since there's not much drop or wind for me with them moving that fast and targets that close compared to if I shot heavier bullets.

 

[BroncoMustang]

I like the 123 SMK's out of 6.5 Creedmoor. Using RL-16 I got the below grouping with a velocity of 3110 fps, SD of 3 and ES of 6 for the 3 shots my LabRadar caught indoors.
View attachment 6903590
View attachment 6903591

I tested them out to a mile and they worked well considering they were dropping subsonic at around 1600-1700 yards based on the weather and elevation. Not much recoil with them either, compared to my heavy 147gr loads that I also use (147's at 2900 fps).

I personally wouldn't much bother with the 123gr Scenars, but that's just because the SMK's are good enough for me. I don't need to worry about benchrest performance for PRS, just cost (I shoot a lot) and external ballistics (which are functionally identical within 1000 yards for both of them). I like to shoot this 123 SMK load in a local match that only goes out to 600 yards since there's not much drop or wind for me with them moving that fast and targets that close compared to if I shot heavier bullets.

Very impressive results!!

 

[ThePretzel]

Very impressive results!!

Overall here are the charts I got for my particular rifle (Christensen TFM w/ stock 26" barrel and a TB Ultra 9) with the 123 SMK's on group size vs bullet velocity and charge weight vs bullet velocity. For reference purposes I used Lapua Brass, CCI BR4 primers, and loaded them all to .020" off the lands.

Your mileage may vary, but I like to keep as much data on my load development as possible and I'm more than happy to share what I've got. I didn't see pressure signs, but it was a real challenge to get 45.4 grains of RL-16 to fit in the Lapua case without a drop tube. It was more or less filling powder up all the way to the top of the neck at that point, and anything above 44.2 grains of RL-16 was a compressed load for me.

Tested in .4gr increments. Highest SD and ES I saw was 45 grains of powder (10.3 and 25), and the lowest was with the 43.4gr of powder (pictured below, but it only captured 4 of the 5 shots - this testing was done the first time I used the LabRadar and I was still getting the hang of it). Average SD was 5 and the average ES was 10.9. These results were using a Hornady LnL Classic Kit press and other items, just being careful to trickle the powder until the exact kernal where I saw it tick over the charge weight I desired.