Rifle Scopes Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

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Shoottothrill

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Jan 26, 2012
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Arizona
#1
Looking at getting a S&B PMII 5-25x56 FFP Riflescope and would like some recomendations on reticle choice between the following.

Gen II XR Mil/Mil

P4 fine Mil/mil

H2CMR Mil/Mil

Shooting paper, Steel, and would like to shoot a match now and again. Would be mounted on a GAP 10 .308.

Thanks for all the advice.
 
#6
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

I have all P4F, but I think the H2CMR is probably a more usable reticle. I like how there are offsetting hash intervals which makes it easier for ranging. That being said, the P4F is still a great reticle and easier to find.
 
#9
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you want a reticle easy for ranging, the msr is cool, i can't get into that mildot/hash cross breed </div></div>

Why is the H2CMR a hash mildot combo? Whats the benefit/reasoning behind it?
 
#10
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iloveguns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a reason the P4F is easier to find! H2CMR has my vote!</div></div>

Because the P4F has been around for +15 years, and the H2CMR was just released last year . . . ?
 
#11
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because the P4F has been around for +15 years, and the H2CMR was just released last year . . . ? </div></div>

That might be it!
 
#12
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 78steeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is the H2CMR a hash mildot combo? Whats the benefit/reasoning behind it?</div></div>

It's a little easier to see and also to break down the reticle in .1 mil with the hollow dots. It's a good combination.

Also with the H2CMR the .2 mil marks on the horizontal make using wind holds and mover holds easier as well as if you had to range the width of a target. The more I use it the more I like it.

Pics of the H2CMR and P4F that I posted recently. I suck at through the scope pics so don't hold it against the FOV or clarity of the scope as both are better. The round steel is an 8" target at 400 yards. I didn't have a 25x P4F pic. Sorry
25x (No P4F pic at 25x sorry)
P7200207.jpg


20x
P7200208.jpg

P9270807.jpg


15x
P7200209.jpg

P9270808.jpg


10x
P7200211.jpg

P9270803.jpg


5x
P7200213.jpg

P9270811-1.jpg
 
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#13
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

I see what you mean. The .2 hashmarks would make it alot easier to hold for wind and moving target. I think thats the way I will go. Thanks for the great pics.
 
#14
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

I have been using the P4F for over a year now and really like it. But UPS just dropped off my new one with the H2CMR ret. and I like it even better. Got it from Jay Wiggins aka the Opticspecialist from Sport Optics. Give him a call if you are looking to order one, excellent customer service and a gives the best deals to Hide members.
 
#16
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bugaboo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have P4F and love it. The H2CMR seems a little confusing. I love the simplicity of the P4F. </div></div>

Curious as to what is confusing about it? You sure your not thinking of a Horus reticle?
 
#17
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you want a reticle easy for ranging, the msr is cool, i can't get into that mildot/hash cross breed </div></div>

Since you brought that reticle up, can you tell me more about the MSR reticle?
I have decided to spend the money on a 5-25 S&B and am trying to decide between the MSR and P4F reticles. The MSR looks to be a good ranging reticle, but it is hard to tell alot about it on the small pictures on the web site. Trying to decide if the MSR is worth the extra $200.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
#18
#19
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iloveguns</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bugaboo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have P4F and love it. The H2CMR seems a little confusing. I love the simplicity of the P4F. </div></div>

Curious as to what is confusing about it? You sure your not thinking of a Horus reticle? </div></div>

It is the other reticle, pictures of which the OP posted here, right? It seems sort of cluttered. But maybe I would get used to it.
 
#21
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bugaboo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is the other reticle, pictures of which the OP posted here, right? It seems sort of cluttered. But maybe I would get used to it. </div></div>

Its really not that bad at all. Just have to know the reticle. Elevation has .5 mil hash marks and Mildots at the 1 mil mark. between the 2nd and the 3rd mildot there are .1 mil marks. The .1 mil marks help for ranging and make it a little quicker to acquire your right hold over. The Windage has hash marks at .2 mils and Mildots at 1 mil mark. Its pretty simple. Not as simple as a plain Mildot but its no where near as complicated as Horus or others I have seen.
 
#22
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

I think the H2CMR seems like a very useful reticle if it agrees with you.

For me and my little pea brain... I have a difficult time with the combination of dots (or circles) and hash marks. I went with the MSR.
 
#23
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iloveguns</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bugaboo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is the other reticle, pictures of which the OP posted here, right? It seems sort of cluttered. But maybe I would get used to it. </div></div>

Its really not that bad at all. Just have to know the reticle. Elevation has .5 mil hash marks and Mildots at the 1 mil mark. between the 2nd and the 3rd mildot there are .1 mil marks. The .1 mil marks help for ranging and make it a little quicker to acquire your right hold over. The Windage has hash marks at .2 mils and Mildots at 1 mil mark. Its pretty simple. Not as simple as a plain Mildot but its no where near as complicated as Horus or others I have seen. </div></div>

I understand it can be useful. I just gave my personal impression, stating I am biased in favor of the P4F, because I have it. For the same reason I decided I do not want a MilDot. I was thinking about a scope from Meopta with MilDot with rings instead of dots, but then I was sold on P4F by its simplicity.

But I guess it is as with any other tool, you have to learn to use and know your tool.
 
#24
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 78steeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you want a reticle easy for ranging, the msr is cool, i can't get into that mildot/hash cross breed </div></div>

Why is the H2CMR a hash mildot combo? Whats the benefit/reasoning behind it? </div></div>

Its for dudes that go both ways
 
#27
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iloveguns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a reason the P4F is easier to find! H2CMR has my vote! </div></div>

I wouldn't go that far. The H2CMR reticle is the new kid on the block and with that not as many are on the market. I have had both the P4F and H2CMR reticle, both are amazing in their own right
 
#28
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

Sort of off topic question--

on the P4FL what do the 4 bottom lines or hashes that are staggered represent?

I have a P4F and I don't know how to use these...thanks!
 
#29
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PSYOPS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sort of off topic question--

on the P4FL what do the 4 bottom lines or hashes that are staggered represent?</div></div>
Based upon the reticle PMII P4FL diagram below, the four (4) "steps" represent the following measurements. The subtensions are the same for the FFP and SFP P4FL "Lit" and P4F ("non-Lit"):

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">At <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #FF0000">100 Yards</span>:</span></span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"L"</span></span> represents 3.6"

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"M"</span></span> represents 4.5"

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"N"</span></span> represents 6.01"

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"P"</span></span> represents 9.0"


<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">At <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #FF0000">100 Meters</span>:</span></span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"L"</span></span> represents 10 cm

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"M"</span></span> represents 12.5 cm

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"N"</span></span> represents 16.7 cm

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"P"</span></span> represents 25.0 cm

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">PMII P4FL Diagram courtesy of 2006 PMII Manual:</span></span>
P4LFFP25X8x6.jpg



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PSYOPS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a P4F and I don't know how to use these...thanks! </div></div>
Now that you know what the measurements represent, as long as you are ranging known-size objects/targets you can use the "steps" to determine distance (range). BTW, this same PDF is listed on page 15 of the 2006 PMII Manual. A PDF of the 2006 PMII Manual can be downloaded off of the Schmidt Bender web site <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">at the bottom left column of this page</span></span> on the Schmidt Bender USA web site.

Hope this helps.


Keith
 
#30
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

Thanks, Keith!

Are those specific measurements specific to something?

They seem kind of random...but they have to be common measurements or S&B would not have put them in a reticle.

Thanks!
 
#32
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

On a side note, I see reticles available at some vendors that aren't listed on S&B's website. In particular, the H58 on a 5-25. Is that a special order item only available from that specific vendor? Can optics be ordered with reticles that are not listed in the catalog?

Functionally, I need a 5-25 with a Horus reticle...the H58 or 59 but they don't show up on the website or the LE/Mil price sheet.
 
#34
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PSYOPS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sort of off topic question--

on the P4FL what do the 4 bottom lines or hashes that are staggered represent?

I have a P4F and I don't know how to use these...thanks! </div></div>


p4f.jpg
 
#35
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cds7221</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H58 is available for order as well as the H59 from any SB vendor as long as you don't mind playing the waiting game.

In reference to your second question, was there another reticle you had in mind? </div></div>

I will probably end up going with the H58. About how long is the wait?
 
#36
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lw8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
cds7221 said:
I will probably end up going with the H58. About how long is the wait? </div></div>

About 3-4 months
Click to expand...
 
#41
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have one coming </div></div>

How long was the line to have this one coming?
 
#44
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damned if I know the right person befores... I've been looking for one S&B MSR since midle of 2011.
</div></div>

give Chris at sportoptics a call. i talked to him today and they may have a 5-25x56 MSR in stock - it was clockwise though
 
#45
Re: Schmidt and Bender Reticles???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bhanDallas</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damned if I know the right person befores... I've been looking for one S&B MSR since midle of 2011.
</div></div>

give Chris at sportoptics a call. i talked to him today and they may have a 5-25x56 MSR in stock - it was clockwise though </div></div>


This is true. I have a 5-25 cw/dt/msr in stock.
 
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