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Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
I think it's great for tactical shooting on a 4-16 or similar power, gets to thick at higher powers like 20+ imho, especially when trying to shoot small groups on paper.
I think it's great for tactical shooting on a 4-16 or similar power, gets to thick at higher powers like 20+ imho, especially when trying to shoot small groups on paper.
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
Pretty cluttered IMO but not to bad. I would go with fine option and wish I would have in hindsight. I went from a standard mildot to the P4 so thats why I may think it's too cluttered but lots of folks love the reticle.
Pretty cluttered IMO but not to bad. I would go with fine option and wish I would have in hindsight. I went from a standard mildot to the P4 so thats why I may think it's too cluttered but lots of folks love the reticle.
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
I like the thickness of the P4. In low light and when running a speed drill it is fast to see. I don't have an interest in shooting groups on paper so if that floats your boat I can see your point.
For my use I find it to be an outstanding field reticle.
I like the thickness of the P4. In low light and when running a speed drill it is fast to see. I don't have an interest in shooting groups on paper so if that floats your boat I can see your point.
For my use I find it to be an outstanding field reticle.
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
The point is that the P4F works great for both situations. I have never had an issue with it in low light conditions, against brush, or speed drills. Most shooters prefer the P4F because it gives you the advantages of the P4 but appears less cluttered because it is less thick which also aids in longer range shooting because it obstructs less of the target. It is amazing how many people have said they wish they would have bought the P4F in the first place. What matters is what works for you. The P4 is also a great reticle.
The point is that the P4F works great for both situations. I have never had an issue with it in low light conditions, against brush, or speed drills. Most shooters prefer the P4F because it gives you the advantages of the P4 but appears less cluttered because it is less thick which also aids in longer range shooting because it obstructs less of the target. It is amazing how many people have said they wish they would have bought the P4F in the first place. What matters is what works for you. The P4 is also a great reticle.
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
+1 for P4
With P4 you can mil more accurately than P4Fine. That is the only reason why I prefer it even though it feels a bit cluttered.
For 3-12x classa P4Fine is definitively too fine at powers less than 8x IMHO.
And I'm able to push groups 0.4-0.6 with my P4 on paper. If you have a good target image, even better.
MSa
+1 for P4
With P4 you can mil more accurately than P4Fine. That is the only reason why I prefer it even though it feels a bit cluttered.
For 3-12x classa P4Fine is definitively too fine at powers less than 8x IMHO.
And I'm able to push groups 0.4-0.6 with my P4 on paper. If you have a good target image, even better.
MSa
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
I have P4 and it I dont mind it yeh its possibly a little thick on 25x but when I get to shooting game in low light it should come into its own then I am guessing it was designed for feild not paper.
I have P4 and it I dont mind it yeh its possibly a little thick on 25x but when I get to shooting game in low light it should come into its own then I am guessing it was designed for feild not paper.
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
i found this site with some pics of both reticles but at the lower powers its hard to even seen the hash marks on the P4F is it like that in person also?
http://www.finnaccuracy.com/sb_pm2_52556.html
i found this site with some pics of both reticles but at the lower powers its hard to even seen the hash marks on the P4F is it like that in person also?
http://www.finnaccuracy.com/sb_pm2_52556.html
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
You need to see the P4F in person, Those pictures are way off. By the way there are several members on the Hide that hunt with a P4F reticle with great results. I am not trying to talk you out of the P4 but dont go by those pictures. I dont think you can go wrong with either one. I do most of my shooting between 8 and 14 power and the P4FL is right on the money. Im sure the same can be said for the P4. It is absolute missinformation that the P4FL is not good on moveing targests, against brush, and in low light. It only being a paper reticle is also not true. Zak Smith uses the P4F in all of his S&B scopes and he is a usually shooting a 3-12x50. He shoots more than 99% of us on this board and loves the P4F to the point of haveing his P4 reticles converted to P4F. There have been quite a few others on this board who have sent their P4 reticle scopes into Premier for conversion to P4F. I have never heard of anyone converting a P4F to a P4. Buy the one that looks best to your eyes but make sure you get to look through the actual scopes and do not go by those crapy pictures. I looked at those pictures today and through my scope at the same power settings for comparison and let me tell you that those pictures are a joke and should not have even been displayed. They are a piss poor representation of the P4F. Beware, a S&B scope purchase is very expensive and you want to get it right the first time around.
You need to see the P4F in person, Those pictures are way off. By the way there are several members on the Hide that hunt with a P4F reticle with great results. I am not trying to talk you out of the P4 but dont go by those pictures. I dont think you can go wrong with either one. I do most of my shooting between 8 and 14 power and the P4FL is right on the money. Im sure the same can be said for the P4. It is absolute missinformation that the P4FL is not good on moveing targests, against brush, and in low light. It only being a paper reticle is also not true. Zak Smith uses the P4F in all of his S&B scopes and he is a usually shooting a 3-12x50. He shoots more than 99% of us on this board and loves the P4F to the point of haveing his P4 reticles converted to P4F. There have been quite a few others on this board who have sent their P4 reticle scopes into Premier for conversion to P4F. I have never heard of anyone converting a P4F to a P4. Buy the one that looks best to your eyes but make sure you get to look through the actual scopes and do not go by those crapy pictures. I looked at those pictures today and through my scope at the same power settings for comparison and let me tell you that those pictures are a joke and should not have even been displayed. They are a piss poor representation of the P4F. Beware, a S&B scope purchase is very expensive and you want to get it right the first time around.
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
if you get the pm II with the illuminated reticle you can always "light it up" at lower magnification but you probably won't need to.
if you get the pm II with the illuminated reticle you can always "light it up" at lower magnification but you probably won't need to.
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
I saw both before buying and took the P4
the P4 fine is much to thin a low power around 15x
the P4 you may use down to 5x and still see it quit good
to me its a tactical reticle to shoot plate and target that are big enough and not a bench rest....
scope
at 100 yard and at 25x you are able to take aim on a .358 bullet hole....
I saw both before buying and took the P4
the P4 fine is much to thin a low power around 15x
the P4 you may use down to 5x and still see it quit good
to me its a tactical reticle to shoot plate and target that are big enough and not a bench rest....
scope
at 100 yard and at 25x you are able to take aim on a .358 bullet hole....
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
according to these photos you are able to see the P4 reticle at a much broader range in x than the P4 f
a big plus for tactical shooting for the reason that this scope was built
if your are going to punch paper and shoot very small target a NF benchrest would be more appropriate
humble opinion.....
according to these photos you are able to see the P4 reticle at a much broader range in x than the P4 f
a big plus for tactical shooting for the reason that this scope was built
if your are going to punch paper and shoot very small target a NF benchrest would be more appropriate
humble opinion.....
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
I find with the lower powers I am looking at a close target waiting for movement. I tend to just put a mover in between the darker portion of the reticle. At longer distances the reticle gets more use.
This is with a SFP NXS 3-15x and limited use with a PH 5-25x FFP.
I find with the lower powers I am looking at a close target waiting for movement. I tend to just put a mover in between the darker portion of the reticle. At longer distances the reticle gets more use.
This is with a SFP NXS 3-15x and limited use with a PH 5-25x FFP.
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
fwiw i have 2 4 x 16 pm ll's with p4f illuminated reticle. i like the fine better because sometimes i shoot at paper and sometimes at a live target.i also like to shoot at longer distances. my vision is 20/15 and i have no problem with the p4f. if you're gonna shoot at long distances with your rifle you probably should go with the fine if you're shooting at 100 to 300 yds and will never be shooting at paper the p4 may work better. there have been times when i wished that my reticle was thinner than it is but i don't ever remember thinking i wish i had a fatter reticle. hope this helps.
fwiw i have 2 4 x 16 pm ll's with p4f illuminated reticle. i like the fine better because sometimes i shoot at paper and sometimes at a live target.i also like to shoot at longer distances. my vision is 20/15 and i have no problem with the p4f. if you're gonna shoot at long distances with your rifle you probably should go with the fine if you're shooting at 100 to 300 yds and will never be shooting at paper the p4 may work better. there have been times when i wished that my reticle was thinner than it is but i don't ever remember thinking i wish i had a fatter reticle. hope this helps.
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
Hello, how is the "low light" performance of your S&B 4-16 PM? I am seriously considering purchasing this scope. Thank you
Hello, how is the "low light" performance of your S&B 4-16 PM? I am seriously considering purchasing this scope. Thank you
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
Chris B,
IMO, S&B's generally will equal or exceed any comparable scope in low light. Others can be very good as well. A great low light hunting scope is the NF 2.5x10x24 if you can still find one. I also like the S&B 3-12 PM 11. The 4x16 is good as well. We have a lot of good stuff to choose from today. If you can justify the price.
Chris B,
IMO, S&B's generally will equal or exceed any comparable scope in low light. Others can be very good as well. A great low light hunting scope is the NF 2.5x10x24 if you can still find one. I also like the S&B 3-12 PM 11. The 4x16 is good as well. We have a lot of good stuff to choose from today. If you can justify the price.
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
I have a p4 fine and I need to know what the distance is between the center of the crosshair to the first subteniton is I have been told two different things first I was told it was .8 of a mil. Then I was told it was 1.0 mil but none of the diagrams that I have seen tell what this distance is.....this is the only thing that I don't like about this reticle and since I sometimes hold for elevation and wind this is crucial I know I should have went with the H2CMR but my dealer didn't have one at the time.......
I have a p4 fine and I need to know what the distance is between the center of the crosshair to the first subteniton is I have been told two different things first I was told it was .8 of a mil. Then I was told it was 1.0 mil but none of the diagrams that I have seen tell what this distance is.....this is the only thing that I don't like about this reticle and since I sometimes hold for elevation and wind this is crucial I know I should have went with the H2CMR but my dealer didn't have one at the time.......
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
Check out the MSR...it is a P4 (medium) with the centre cross hair dimensions FIXED as a well as the additional ranging mils and bars.
I have swapped my P4F's out for this.
Ewen
Check out the MSR...it is a P4 (medium) with the centre cross hair dimensions FIXED as a well as the additional ranging mils and bars.
I have swapped my P4F's out for this.
Ewen
Re: Schmidt & Bender P4 reticle
I'll second checking out the MSR, it's a good blend of the P4 and P4 fine.
I'll second checking out the MSR, it's a good blend of the P4 and P4 fine.
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