Rifle Scopes Scope base bedding ques.

[ilmonster]

I have a new R700 I bought a week ago that I’m going to be putting into a new stock, new trigger and optics. I have a TPS scope base for it and dry fit it last night to see if I might need to bed it. From the fitting, I have three questions:

With the front two screws screwed in hand tight, I was able to fit a .0015” feeler gauge into the right side of the base just until it hit the area under the screw holes (wouldn’t go all the way across). A .0025” feeler wouldn’t fit. Is this enough of a gap to need bedding?

If this is enough of a gap to bed, is it reasonable to expect after bedding there would only be about .0015” of bedding material under that portion of the base? Can one get that thin a layer of bedding under the base?

If I do need to bed it, I’ll need to plug the screw holes in the receiver. Could I just use the set/grub screws that Remington originally had in the mounting holes covered with release compound (wax) to cover the holes and then unscrew them after the bedding material dries? I always wondered if one used something like Playdough, how do you get all the Playdough out? One would want it clean enough that the base screws with a drop of blue Loctite adhere to clean threads

Thanks!

 

[Glassaholic]

This is essentially the method I follow for bedding my rails, no need to put anything into the screw holes other than the shoe wax

 

[spife7980]

Thats the video I modeled my process off of as well.

I use neutral kiwi shoe polish as my release agent and I take a little glob and stick it into the actions base holes to prevent any jb weld from getting in them. Play dough works fine, thats what I use in the bottom of the action when bedding it in the stock.
Its not tough to clean either one of them out from the base holes. I just push the majority out and run a bit of paper towel in them. Maybe a tooth pick will be needed if you leave the playdough in it for days on end allowing it to dry. But its no big issue.

 

[ilmonster]

Thanks for the information!

 

[justme]

The only thing more that I do is that I make sure I degrease the the holes in the action and base mounting screws and use " BLUE "
Loctite on the mounting screws.

On my personal guns I start by bedding the forward mounting section before doing the rear.

My reason for this is that I feel that no action and mount fit perfect and if I start with the front , 99% of the bedding material WILL squeeze out leaving a perfect fit and the very light skim cote of bedding material left on the front base mounting point that did not fit perfect keeps moisture from getting under there when I get caught in the rain causing rust under the mount

There are many ways to do something, this is just " my way "

 

[Gohring65]

When ever you have doubt, just bed it.
No more doubt.... lol

 

[ilmonster]

Well, I did another dry run of mounting the rail. I installed the front 2 screws and torqued them just under the recommended amount (vs. hand tight originally). I now couldn't see or feel a gap in the rear. Tried to get that .0015" feeler gauge in, and it wouldn't. I could get it in just on the corner maybe 1/32". Don't think I'm going to try and bed this rail. Looks like Remington machined a flat receiver, and TPS machined a flat rail.

 

[wade2big]

Well, I did another dry run of mounting the rail. I installed the front 2 screws and torqued them just under the recommended amount (vs. hand tight originally). I now couldn't see or feel a gap in the rear. Tried to get that .0015" feeler gauge in, and it wouldn't. I could get it in just on the corner maybe 1/32". Don't think I'm going to try and bed this rail. Looks like Remington machined a flat receiver, and TPS machined a flat rail.

Good deal. It would have been unnecessary anyhow.

 

[FN-Whitney]

Yeah after you torque them down sometimes things come together.

 

[ilmonster]

Yup, I'll leave it alone. Although, I was kind of looking forward to bedding a base for the first time. I really enjoy working on my guns and having a good result, and knowing it was done right.

 

[FN-Whitney]

Yup, I'll leave it alone. Although, I was kind of looking forward to bedding a base for the first time. I really enjoy working on my guns and having a good result, and knowing it was done right.

Go ahead and bed it, its not going to hurt it. I put a small amount of bedding compound under all my bases to ensure I get solid contact through the whole base.

 

[30338]

Cranking down screws tight till there is no gap can induce stresses on the action. For me, that is the whole reason to bed one. Stressfree mount.

 

[ilmonster]

The only screws I screwed down tight were the front two. With those snugged up the rear of the based didn't show a gap on the rear of the receiver (with no screws in the rear). You're right, if you snug the front screws down, have a large gap in the rear (say, .010"), and crank down the rear screws, you are both bending the base and inducing bending forces in the receiver.

 

[LeftyJason]

Cranking down screws tight till there is no gap can induce stresses on the action. For me, that is the whole reason to bed one. Stressfree mount.

The only screws I screwed down tight were the front two. With those snugged up the rear of the based didn't show a gap on the rear of the receiver (with no screws in the rear). You're right, if you snug the front screws down, have a large gap in the rear (say, .010"), and crank down the rear screws, you are both bending the base and inducing bending forces in the receiver.

Do something for me.
1. Start with a scope base that is designed for the rifle.

2. Put the front screws in.

3. Squeeze it together with your hand.

4. If previous step doesn't close the gap, put weights on the back of the rail til it makes full contact.

5. Report the weight.

6. If the required weight is less than 14,000lbs you are not going to permantly bending the action.

7. If the weight is less than 925 - 1, 300lbs, a 6-48 screw at 25-30in/lbs will close it (that is the amount of clamp force that a single screw is designed to run at).

8. If the weight is less than 50-100lbs you are just tickling the steel and worrying about nothing. As in 50lbs bends the action by 0.00022 inches which is less than 1/8 of a hair. Oh and by the way you will always bend the rail before the action.

Just some rough numbers to get you in the ball park of how silly this seems. Steel is much stronger and tougher than you think. Listen to @wade2big from up above.

 

[30338]

Jason, Okay, no worries with action stress. Action is very stiff. So if the rail does show daylight, as I have seen on some Remington 700s. As you pointed out, just screw the rail down till it bends to match the receiver. In that situation, with the rail flexed to fit the receiver, do you then lap the rings so as not to mark up the expensive optics that will be riding there? Just curious because the rail as you mentioned will just flex to fit and will no longer be straight.

Other than 30 minutes of time and less than $10 of material, is there any reason not to bed the rail? Just trying to learn what you do in that situation where the rail flexes a bit.

 

[LeftyJason]

Jason, Okay, no worries with action stress. Action is very stiff. So if the rail does show daylight, as I have seen on some Remington 700s. As you pointed out, just screw the rail down till it bends to match the receiver. In that situation, with the rail flexed to fit the receiver, do you then lap the rings so as not to mark up the expensive optics that will be riding there? Just curious because the rail as you mentioned will just flex to fit and will no longer be straight.

Other than 30 minutes of time and less than $10 of material, is there any reason not to bed the rail? Just trying to learn what you do in that situation where the rail flexes a bit.

If you buy quality rings there is no need to lap. Just a reminder vortex precision rings say they're machined to a tolerance of 0.0005 inches.

How much gap are you talking about and where? Do you have feeler gages?

Don't forget to factor in the cost of your time, but the bigger issue is what difference is there? Velocity variations, wind misjudgment, and fundamentals matter more by magnitudes than the 'flex/ bend' in the scope rail. Just mount it up, torque it down with whatever torque wrench you choose (FAT wrench or other) and go shoot the thing.

 

[30338]

I bed rails and use Seekins rings. Works for me.

 

[dustingaunder]

If you put the front screws in an torqued them with no gap in the back. Put only the back crews in and torque them to see if there’s a gap on the front side. I have to bed the front as often as the rear.