Gunsmithing Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

fw707

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Minuteman
Nov 12, 2010
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I mounted a 6.5-20 Zeiss on a LA 700 rifle yesterday with a Seekins base and rings. After I did my usual bore sight I was resetting the dial to the -0- position, and I found that I had 4 clicks of left windage remaining on the scope.

Would Remington take care of the problem, or would I be better off just getting new holes d&t'ed by a good smith?
 
Re: Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

Thanks for the reply LG, but I'm wondering more about my scope base alignment than my bore sighting.
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Re: Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

ive never seen a remington that from that factory had straight scope base screws, definatly recommend sending it to a good smith and having them open the screws to 8-40
 
Re: Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

Thanks.
I'm pretty sure they're out of alignment. My bore sighting method usually gets me on the notebook size target paper at 100 yards on the first shot. I do need to shoot it to make sure though.
I've got 4 clicks of left adjustment, and 120 clicks of right adjustment, so something's pretty bad wrong.
I had a scope mounted on the gun in windage-adjustable Leupold bases and rings previously, so it wasn't as noticeable.
 
Re: Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PFCSkoug</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ive never seen a remington that from that factory had straight scope base screws, definatly recommend sending it to a good smith and having them open the screws to 8-40 </div></div>


+1
 
Re: Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

When enlarging an action (any action) to 8-40 I mount the receiver in a mill with a mandrel inserted in the receiver bore. I indicate the bore straight in the X axis and then position to center.

From there I interpolate (bore) the holes to the new minor diameter. A drill will want to follow what is already there. An endmill properly set up won't care. With the action sitting there tapping the holes to the new pitch is a snap as locations are recorded and the tap naturally follows the existing hole. An even better method is to thread mill the holes. I will eventually buy the tooling for this, but for now taps work fine. Thread milling is the best way as it doesn't take the path of least resistance the way a tap will.

Not meant to sound alarming as we are really splitting little hairs at this point. Just a better way as I can thread gauge the holes to exact size by thread milling.

This is the only way I've been able to ensure the holes are indeed on location. CNC machinery makes it a snap, but it can be done with manual equipment as well when in capable hands.

Good luck.

C
 
Re: Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

Chad, thank you for the information!
I asked one smith about drilling them out for the 8-40's and he said the same thing you did about the drill following the existing holes. Apparently he didn't have a mill, didn't know how to do the set-up, or just didn't want to take on such a small job.
I swapped the base, rings, and scope over to another gun this afternoon and it lined up center of the windage adjustment this time.
I need to get it fixed, or put a windage-adjustable base on it and forget it. I really hate to a$$ around with a problem on an otherwise nice rifle.
 
Re: Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

21nDhhO5iZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


I used to bore sight, but it made it hard to work at night.
Now I use a Leupold Magnetic Illuminated Boresighter
http://www.amazon.com/Leupold-Magnetic-Illuminated-Boresighter-Md/dp/B0014VRPPW

I like to install Weaver mounts so that there is no bind and the scope will be on the paper if the reticule is in the center of the tube.

I buy a lot of guns for cheap, especially Mausers, and the most common problem is that the sights don't work, never could work, the rifle is being dumped.

If the holes are drilled off center, I try to avoid drilling more holes or welding up the old holes. I prefer to work with the holes that are there.

FillisterHeadInch.jpg


If I "waller over" the holes in the mount, because the holes that were drilled and tapped were off center, I have to waller over the countersink too. I cannot waller over a countersink for a tapered flat head screw, but I can for a Fillister head, by using an end mill. If the mount starts out as a tapered counter sink for a flat head screw, I convert it, when I waller over, to a flat bottomed countersink for a fillister head screw.

In dual mounts, I sometimes move over the concave radius on the bottom of the mount with a boring head or end mill or fly cutter or what ever, but I prefer to shim with narrow masking tape and epoxy bed the mount's underside to the receiver to keep the bore sighter centered. I rough up the bottom of the mount and put release agent on the receiver. I mask off the receiver around the mount.

After63thouverticallyand41thouhoriz.jpg

If the bore sighter looks like this when the epoxy is hard and the screws are tightened, then I clean the threaded holes and screws and apply loctite 242 and give the mount screws their final torquing.

Then scopes should be able to move from rifle to rifle and be on the paper and no ring lapping.

If things really go wrong, I will mill out a Weaver rail from scratch that is custom to the rifle, but that is lots more work than modifying a factory mount to fit.
 
Re: Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

Just have someone straighten them that can do it right.
Carbide end mills for 8-40s can be hard to find. Your smith probably just didnt have an end mill the right size.
Luckily someone I know ordered a few and sold me one
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I coudlnt find them either unless I was willing to buy a couple hundred bucks worth.

It will take a smith who is set up to do it no time at all. He probably wouldnt even mind you watching. Same way Mr. Dixon said to do it.


trying to do math and its late... .005" runout in 6" of scope rail would be... 3 inches at 100 yards... ya?

So in order to be off 3 feet at 100 yards, your base would need somewhere around .060" runout in its 6" or so of length. You could probably see that its off that much with your naked eye.
 
Re: Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

Thanks again guys.
I'm boxing it up and sending it to Chad today.

I bought the rifle new for a build and sent it to a smith for a new barrel before it was fired, so I ended up with a decent barrel on the receiver before I knew I had a problem.
Scott at Liberty Optics is sending me an 8-40 Seekins base, so I should be good to go.
 
Re: Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark Housel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I coudlnt find them either unless I was willing to buy a couple hundred bucks worth.
</div></div>

Yeah, neither could I.
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</div></div>

Would a 9/64" carbide end mill work for this application? #28 drill is called to drill for an 8-40 hole #28 is .1405" 9/64" is .1406" I found 9/64" carbide end mills for about $10. Just curious
 
Re: Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

We've not run into a problem finding endmills to countersink 8-40 screws. I grabbed a double handful from a guy at the Mesquite Gun Show that sells tooling really cheap. I think we only payed $2 each at the most for 'em and all were new.
 
Re: Scope base screw holes out of alignment?

I use an 1/8th inch 4F carb EM and program a helical boring cycle. The tip of the tool is the only thing actually cutting. By spiraling in I don't have to be so concerned with tool deflection and a tapered bore when machining. Takes a little bit longer, but the taps go in real nice. The less tool in contact with the part the better.

Just another way to peel skin off kitty's.